Exmormon Foundation 2013 conference: anti-human, anti-children, and anti-life!

Regarding the Exmormon Foundation 2013 conference:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130730052521/http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/conference2013.html

"...Due to the nature of the conference presentations and the serving of alcohol during the evenings, we have established a strict policy that no children are allowed except for nursing infants. In addition, since the presentations are recorded for our website, it's important that we control the ambient noise during the recordings. If you have any questions about this policy, please contact the Conference Chairman..."

Your strict "no children" AKA no-normal-human policy is still present. As such we won't be going.

Suggest your foundation be led by people who realize that people who grow up in a children-friendly environment (eg: sacrament meetings where children are welcome) may expect to have a similar environment in their so-called "recovery-from-Mormonism."

I think we need recovery from recovery from Mormonism, if "recovery" means giving up our kids or leaving them behind.

The Salt Lake conference should be Salt-Lake-people-originated, and operated by people who remember what many years of life were like as a Mormon: Children were there, and that was actually a good thing. We didn't kick them out or send them away like Unitarians do, and we aren't going to do so as so-called "exmos" - not even if there's a "strict" policy requiring this.

Hey, I remember when Tal Bachman brought his several kids to the conference. No problem right?

Anyway, in my view the current leaders of the Exmormon Foundation have constructed a group which is essentially a cult of personality.

Utah is a kid friendly place, even for people recovering from recovery from Mormonism. We aren't from Portland, and we didn't grow up going to UU churches. Sending kids away is not natural for us, and neither is a "strict no child policy." Such a policy is anti-human and anti-life.

Jonathan
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/one/jonathan.html
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/

related post:
Atheist Family Values: Attention Exmormon Foundation: humans have children. And more on presuppositional apolegetics.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/07/atheist-family-values-attention.html

Chinese Garden in Salt Lake City /// Teabagger chumps of Koch brothers - government shutdown

Commentary on two topics:

Topic 1: Rich traitorous bastard teabagger engineered government shutdown conspiracy revealed.

Topic 2: The Chinese garden in International Peace Gardens, Jordan Park, Salt Lake City is being hijacked by anti-China Taiwanese expats.

Video:


Links and more references:

On topic 1: The government shutdown, and the traitoris Koch brothers & their tea bagging chump de facto followers...

A Federal Budget Crisis Months in the Planning
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Shutdown coverage fails Americans
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/10/1/reporting-governmentshutdowndemocracy.html

The 5 creepiest things about how the Koch brothers engineered the shutdown
http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/207311/the-5-creepiest-things-about-how-the-koch-brothers-engineered-the-shutdown/

Conservative Plot To Defund Obamacare Exposed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQmGqCOwy2U

On topic 2:

United Nations resolution 2758 - why Taiwan is not a member of the U.N.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_2758

Legal status of Taiwan - in dispute:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_Taiwan#Arguments_for_United_States_sovereignty_claims

Can you find Taiwan on a map? When someone says the word China, does Taiwan come to mind? Probably not! See the letter I sent to Salt Lake City on this issue, and my linked to video at the top of this post for more details...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
To the Salt Lake City Parks Dept.
Date: Mon, Sep 30, 2013
Subject: no Chinese flag in Peace Garden

Hello,

I've noticed there is no flag for the People's Republic of China in the International Peace Garden in Jordan Park.

Is the purpose of the garden to "foster world peace?" Some people may well want the government of Taiwan to be the "official" government of the Chinese mainland. But no matter how much we may want that & wish for that, it's unlikely to happen. And using the peace garden here as a means of
"sticking it in the eye" of the current, actual, and real government of China, is rather inappropriate.

Does the U.S. need to "make peace" with Taiwan? Hardly.

You're brave enough to have a flag for Vietnam in there. Perhaps there's a plot for Russia. But you can't handle having a flag for the People's Republic of China?

When diplomats from China visit Utah, do they ever drop by the Peace Gardens? Are they confronted with the Taiwanese flag there? But when they go searching for the flag from their country, can they find it? No.

Anyway, I know the people in Taiwan are really quite angry with the government in Beijing. But it seems to me that using the Peace Garden as a platform for their anger doesn't really "foster peace."

And so, your garden, our "peace" garden (since it is a public place) is not really and truly a garden for peace.

Maybe fly BOTH flags in the Chinese garden - both for Taiwan and for regular China. Maybe if you did that the Chinese garden there would be for ALL of China, and not just for an angry subset who want to overthrow the gov in Beijing.

A private group has essentially hijacked the garden. Yes they made it look nice, and I know it was just redone. That's nice. But Taiwan is NOT the government of China, and hand wringing by right-wing McCarthyite politicians in Utah, or even by Taiwanese expats, isn't going to change that.

So, for your/our Chinese garden I ask that you have a flag for China, the People's Republic of China, there.

We can be for freedom for Taiwan without discounting the fact that the People's Republic even exists in the first place. China, the People's Republic thereof, is here to stay. And your garden shouldn't deny that fact, or serve as a means of "sticking it" to the government in Beijing. However noble that cause may be, it's an inappropriate antithetical action by a supposed "peace garden."

My wife is from mainland China, and we were married in the Chinese garden. My wife is not from Taiwan. Maybe you can have a Taiwan garden in the Garden, but as far as we're concerned we were married in the CHINESE garden, not in an exclusively-Taiwanese-centered one. My wife found the presence of the Taiwanese flag and the absence of the Chinese one strange, and an indication that "Americans don't like China."

I agree that the current situation is divisive. Do we have a "peace garden" here or what? Does the City of Salt Lake want America to have peace with REAL CURRENT ACTUAL China, or not? Are you being ALL INCLUSIVE of everyone from China by solely flying the Taiwanese flag? I don't think so.

Perhaps your actions in this case are even, dare I say, racist. My wife is essentially being discriminated against by the actions of your garden organizers. She's not from Taiwan, and you do claim to have a Chinese garden, right? So where's the flag for China in the Chinese garden?

Sincerely,

Jonathan

-------------------end of quote

Further request for help:

In the Peace Garden in Salt Lake (Jordan Park) there's no flag flying for the People's Republic of China. In the "Chinese garden" there's a Taiwanese flag, but the last time I checked Taiwan is not China. Would you like to help organize having a garden in our Peace Garden which either a.) represents all of China and has NO flag flying, or b.) represents the People's Republic of China, with PRC flag flying?

Can a PRC expat have pride in the country they grew up in? Sure! Why not? Taiwan is not China, nor will it ever be China, not even if the PRC becomes more democratic and open and so on. The PRC is here to stay, regardless of whether it becomes more open and free in the future or not. And Hong Kong is a good roadmap perhaps. Hong Kong is part of the PRC also, not Taiwan.

It's too bad that our so-called peace garden is being used as a political football. In our public garden there's a flag for Vietnam, Russia, and so on. Why not for the PRC? Let me know if you want to help...

comments on Deseret News crusade against porn

I can understand what lies at the root of hysterical crusades against porn.

Is "porn addiction" ruining your marriage? Stop taking a highly fear based approach. Stop requiring your kids confess about masturbation. Tell your husband he doesn't have to 100% "give up" porn. Instead tell him "I love you and want to help you be happy."

Watching vids on occasion is one thing. Spending many hours at it, or engaging in real time chats are problematic. Yet: 100% intolerance also goes too far.

Certain types of "porn" can be useful in marriage, in that it can be educational, or create a "spark" to help get things going. If a guy is spending too much time with porn maybe he's upset with how controlling, distant, or threatening you are.

Sex is natural. The "natural man" is a friend to "god," *not* an enemy. The only "god" worth worshiping is sex. Through sex comes love, and life, and the only immortality we will ever experience.

Recently I found "Warren Farrell Speaks in Toronto: Transforming the Boys Crisis" and at time index 1:33:00 he speaks about porn.

Let's examine what human history & human nature show, and move forward in love.

My view on Silverman: He's no Hitchens, or Dawkins, or Harris, or Dennett in a debate

My views on David Silverman: He's no Hitchens, or Dawkins, or Harris, or Dennett in a debate. He comes across as a bit of a noob at times, and his group can be rather pedantic, controlling (censoring atheists who aren't their leadership), and assuming to much - that they represent "atheists" generally - the universal umbrella group as much as they can make themselves, while at the same time being top-down and top-heavy. As for Barker and FFRF: He's a bit more reasonable.

As a non-Jew I've always viewed the Star of David as a religious symbol. I would agree that the monument should feature symbols that represent all of the affected groups, if it's going to have symbols at all.

Separately, someone should make a monument to all the boys whose penises were raped as a result of Jewish culture. Certainly circ is no justification for what Hitler did. But no culture is perfect or particularly more noble.

Why, why, why we have to fight against all cults of personality...

Hey Mormon Missionaries: Where is the Lamanite DNA? Holding onto our values after leaving religion.

Comments about video:

Mr. Beeb is becoming more smart every day. We may go to the Utah State Fair again this weekend. They have some interesting art & paintings.

Yesterday during my lunch walk I got approached by bike by a couple of Mormon missionaries. They started with Moroni 10:3-5 that if you just pray & get a feeling that Mormonism is true that you will become convinced. They asked me how come people in the middle of Africa can get sucked into Mormonism. I told them that this happens because of a failing with how the human brain works. Next they told me that only when science & religion work together can both move forward. I told them there's been no Lamanite DNA found. They said that there's been Jewish DNA found in American Indians. However this is from a LATER migration - AFTER Columbus. Scientists can tell when a given genetic influence happened by genetic drift. Google T.G. Schurr, and also "Where is the Lamanite DNA," and also Simon Southerton for more info on all this. They ended with "you just have to have faith." I responded with: I think we need to rely on human nature, and try to value the good parts of human nature while curtailing the bad.

I can help you leave the Mormon Church, while holding onto your values.

Cultures which have had ZERO to do with your current or former religion have plenty of values! THAT'S the key thing both the ultra-rightie and the ultra-leftie should learn.

IMG 2762 9-13-2013 7:30am

Agent Orange, Syria, and Vietnam - yes they are linked

I didn't have anything to do with Kennedy, LBJ, or Nixon's war in Vietnam. Sesame Street & Mr. Rogers were the main things happening in my life then.

Amazingly the damage from that "old" war is still happening:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23632245

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/10/world/asia/us-moves-to-address-agent-orange-contamination-in-vietnam.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/22/3514489/4-decades-after-war-ended-agent.html

http://www.civilbeat.com/voices/2013/09/06/19831-remember-agent-orange-the-us-own-chemical-weapons-history/

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100235050/spare-us-the-hypocrisy-over-chemical-weapons-america-what-about-agent-orange/

WTF indeed.

Anyway it's not exactly hypocritical for new leaders who had zero to do with past sins to try & stop other world leaders from using chemical weapons. But it's more than a little bit hypocritical to not offer direct help & compensation to CURRENT victims of agent orange in Vietnam - while at the same time denying that agent orange was a chemical weapon as such (intended to hurt people - what bullshit).

Anyway, as for Syria, I'm still in the "wait" camp. It's not evil to fight against evil, as long as you're willing to fight for it at home and abroad. Will Obama & John Kerry be fighting for recognition of agent orange as a chemical weapon that did hurt people, and that is continuing to hurt people? Will they be fighting to jail all those who purported this act (the use of agent orange) during America's not so cold war?

-------------

Copy of letter shared with national leaders:

Regarding Syria, as soon as we've admitted that agent orange use in Vietnam was illegal by both U.S. and international standards, and as soon as we start compensating past & current victims of agent orange in Vietnam & elsewhere, only then should we consider action against Syria.

The people who authorized agent orange use in Vietnam should be in jail, in my view. Children in Vietnam are continuing to be deformed.

So, we've got our own chemical weapon use history. Let's own up to what we've done as a country before we strike out at another for supposedly similar sins.

Syria is a messy business right now. We don't have to be the "air force for al qaeda," and it's unclear whether the government there used the weapons. But even if they did, we should own up to our own past mistakes fully & completely before striking out at another country for similar sins.

Star Trek; Sneaky Biology; Built in human morality; Fun includes work; Can I join your church?

Commentary on Star Trek Enterprise.

On the new Star Trek movie franchise: Not Star Trek - should instead be called "Kiddie Trek" or "Millennials Trek."

The original Star Trek is rather like Shakespeare. Should we change the stories of Shakespeare? No. Changing the basic story lines of the original story lines is not what they do with Shakespeare & it's not what people should do with Star Trek.

Roddenberry wrote cowboy stories. We need cowboys in space. If we use robots forever, what happens when the sun gets 10% hotter & the sun boils off? The childless liberal hippie may well be extinct, but the "breeders" won't be. Childless liberals get what they want: no place on the great mandala.

Biology can sneak up on everyone, left & right. Thank goodness.

See what birth control does now: We have people who think that the child-free life is just as good as one with children. Catholics have a point. It's not what's in the Bible - it's basic human morality, nature, instincts, and survival.

In Mormonism & other religions they teach you to be afraid of sexual thoughts.

If you're a Mormon wife, maybe you shouldn't wear your temple garments at night, or even during the day. Wearing them interferes with your ability to be intimate with your husband. No wonder he's looking at porn so much even though he's married to you.

Religion can fuck you up, but religion is a natural phenomenon. So we have to separate the lies from the truth. That's why I like Bart Ehrman. He helps separate the lies from the truth.

You have can you religion & your values. You can be pro-life, and wary of birth control. You can be wary of the homosexual agenda. Why? Because you can tie into natural normal human morality & human nature. You can use your brain to evaluate the outcomes of various activities & thought processes.

You don't have to believe in the lies of your religion to hold onto your values. True humanist values! True naturalist values! Being natural includes having stigmas for destructive behaviors - that's the key epiphany that I've had.

We don't have to lie to say the truth.

Can I join your church? If I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus, but I think there's some valid & good human values in the Bible & in other books that humans have written?

Humans write human stuff. Some of the groups that have Bart Ehrman debating, I think they actually believe the guy. They can't move along the road because they're afraid that without their god everything is permitted. They look at the ultra-leftie liberals & thin this. But, you can codify your values without having to believe in lies. Examine things objectively and make judgements. Judging can be highly valuable.

Remember the Great Mandala song by Peter, Paul, and Mary. "...Win or lose now you must choose now..."

Fun includes work, hippie, and not just staring at your own naval all your life.

September 4, 2013 7:37am

Miley Cyrus and Breastfeeding: Don't censor either!

Part of an image shared on facebook in response to the Miley Cyrus incident:

The original facebook poster added words on the bottom of the image stating how they were outraged that the picture on the right was reportedly sometimes censored on facebook, and yet the image on the left was widely shared with no problem.

Well, facebook is no panacea. Here's my response though to both photos being combined and posted together:

Hey liberal: The first picture leads to the second picture - and it should!

Hey conservative: Don't be afraid of either picture!

I only barely knew about the VMA's before hearing about the incident on the BBC.

The apparent wildness of sex leads to the beauty of a child. Whodathunkit. It's not one or the other - it's both intertwined.

We apparently need sex ed for both sides of the social & political spectrum...

Hey liberals: have kids - it's a good thing!

Hey conservatives: Sex is fun, and it should be. Sex can free you from your made up gods. And: don't be too hung about about masturbation or oral sex. And if you're a Mormon woman, stop wearing your garnments during sex.

Ok...

Miley Cyrus, You go girl!

In the wake of the reaction to Miley Cyrus's recent performance at the VMA's, here's my response:

You go girl!

Performance: http://goo.gl/l2jjVy

Reaction:
https://www.google.com/search?q=miley+cyrus+reaction

Mika Brzezinski's idiotic, myopic, and petty response:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7cDq8ajWYA

The Young Turks more reasonable response:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy4y0C4GmYU

Miley Cyrus is sexual -- get over it
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/26/opinion/schwartz-miley-cyrus/

Racist? Hardly. Ultra-lefties are some of the most racist people you'll ever meet.

Miley Cyrus & Robin Thicke: white women & men can jump after all. We're not all like Napoleon Dynamite.

Is Hannah Montana dead? Hardly. When a girl grows up into a woman & discovers what her coochie can do, she can put behind her the black & white saccharin false niceties of the past. The world of Disney is false, fake, saccharin, a lie, and a deception. Fun for a while, but still false & fake.

No wonder the girl did what she did, growing up and working as a Disney kid. And good on her! Remember the film Pleasantville, when people turned from being black & white into color? That's what happens when a human comes of age. Realizing the power, majesty, and wonder of what you've got right between your legs - that's the key question of your & all our lives. What will you do with that power?

So, in the short term, Miley can & should shake her booty and her coochie around all she wants. In the long term, I hope that she settles down & has kids. I hope that she doesn't get sucked into the selfish dead end childless culture on the left.

No, she isn't a tramp or a slut or a whore. She's yet another female human who's come of age, and discovered the world isn't what Disney claimed at all, nor should it be.

Don't kiss the ass of some made up god or preacher! You've got all the power you need in YOU to move forward - right between your legs. What you do with that power in the long term is the key question...

Further thoughts:
Families Can Be Together Forever... Through Evolution!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/families-can-be-together-forever.html

Atheism & having kids: the right to choose to be a zero
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2011/11/atheism-having-kids-right-to-choose-to.html

8-30-2013 7:41am

Church History museum; Chinese family values; atheist & humanist groups are religions too.

Commentary on our visit to the LDS Church History Museum and to Temple Square. We saw the new Boy Scout exhibit at the museum, the golden plates, the angel Macaroni (I mean Moroni), and so on.

Built in human morality fully exists within religions, and also in less religious societies like China. How can we separate the useful facts of human morality in religion from the lies? It's hard work.

Mormonism is a modern cult - a cult in a suit and a tie. But new atheist and humanist groups are religions also - where you have lies you cannot question, and where you have to be politically correct for fear of not being a "genuine" atheist or humanist.

Religions do have some good ideas, but you wouldn't realize that unless you: a.) spent several years checking out all the hippie crap, and b.) going to gay bars & parties with your gay nephew, and c.) making note of how a convicted pedophile was gladly accepted back into your nephew's friend group after leaving prison, and d.) going to Portland and seeing what people do there via an Alice in Wonderland style journey, and e.) marrying a woman from China - where they never heard of Joseph Smith and very little of Jesus. Also making note of how your gay uncle died of AIDS leaving his regular normal family with no father will help expand your perspective. So, in spite of their bullshit, the Mormon & Catholic churches do have some very good ideas and ideals.

Why do religions have to support themselves with lies? Even the atheistic versions of religions have lies? Lies about the negative impacts of the ultra-left agenda.

The crazy ideas are mixed in with some good and useful truths. It's all integrated together. So, how can we separate out useful fact from harmful fiction? Perhaps one key way is this: refusing to be politically correct!

Maybe China is showing us the way: family values! They don't believe in Jesus or Joseph Smith, and yet they have a great deal of good valuable down home family values. They aren't perfect either, but they do value family.

But: Shhh! In atheist & humanist groups have to be very quiet about what you really think - and so such groups are religion also. So watch out!

Reject political correctness and embrace family values.

8-27-2013 7:32am

hiking to Fehr Lake & other explorations - July 6, 2013

Beeb crawling; exploring along the Mirror Lake Highway - Provo River Falls; Fehr Lake trail; Coco is with us (male Timneh African Grey parrot).

July 6, 2013
Times of clips included in the film:
8 857 857 1023 1029 1033 1103 1138 1144 1149 1233 1325 1335 1335 1342 1342

Yelena Isinbayeva - You Go Girl! -- Questioning Hippie Dogma.

On the film "Plan 10 From Outer Space."

Thoughts on Yelena Isinbayeva: you go girl! Thanks!

News reference: "Russian pole vault champ Yelena Isinbayeva condemns homosexuality, supports new anti-gay law"
http://goo.gl/0dQPXO

Related comments about Yelena's actions:

Courageous. Wonderful. Thanks Yelena and Russia. The same could be said of China perhaps - a similar cultural & very *human* understanding of the situation.

Children are, after all, the future, and a couple who can naturally have them together is of most value...

Calls for "shame on Yelena" you'll notice, are coming from the de-facto religion of the cultural left in the West. They have their own dogmatic religion, heresy trials, witch hunts, elders, and core unquestionable dogmas. But theirs is a religion (culture - meme set) which doesn't value life. Instead they dogmatically value relativism. But not everything is equal.

Thanks Russia. Thanks China. And thanks to many black people in America who also have the courageous view that we should be valuing life by honoring where it comes from, honoring how we all got here in the first place, and valuing the fact that children are our only path to real flesh & blood immortality.

---end of quote

Nationally led atheist (humanist, naturalist, Unitarian Universalist) groups tend to be centered around the political and social ideology of their leadership.

Questioning the dominant paradigm - isn't that what rock music was supposed to be about?

Can we question the new dominant paradigm in the west: Hippie Dogma.

Here are some hippie dogmas worth questioning:

Hippie dogma number 1: Whatever you do is up to you - it doesn't hurt anyone else.

Hippie dogma number 2: All cultures are equal. You cannot question another person's culture.

Hippie dogma number 3: The "native" people are very noble indeed.

When you grow up, you can realize that all the hippie dogma is a bunch of bullshit - 80% of it. 20% is ok.

Compassion for your fellow man is ok, & trying to keep people from having to go to church just so they can get a meal - yes that's ok too.

I like art museums, pretty rocks, and incense. But poor & religious people should be able to have as many kids as they damn well please. Don't let hippie dogma make YOU a zero or a near zero on the great mandala!

8-20-13 731am

More info:

advocacy for having children:
http://goo.gl/BVCy4u
and
http://goo.gl/rCtjTm

American Indians: No group of humans are uniquely more noble
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/03/american-indians-no-group-of-humans-are.html

Thoughts on hyphenated Americans, racism, and cynicism
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/08/thoughts-on-hyphenated-americans-racism.html

Islamofactia, Islamotruthia, Homofactia, Homotruthia - and the Black Atheists of Atlanta

The page:
"Nothing Atheist About “Real” Black Atheists"
http://spiceislandatheist.blogspot.com/2013/04/nothing-atheist-about-real-black.html

My response:

I can see why black atheists in Atlanta are inclined to be nationalistic. I don't agree with them that every aspect of European culture is inherently evil. However listening to their views helped me take a step back & realize that many atheist & humanist groups in America are dogmatically, politically, and socially ultra-left - and de facto religions themselves as a result. If you find yourself to be an atheist who's not socially ultra-left, you will be kicked out of such groups. So, the new atheist groups are now in my view religions in and of themselves.

Given enough education about Islam, and one may advocate for Islamofactia and Islamotruthia, rather than being guilty of "Islamophobia." The same can go for homosexuality. "Homophobia?" In my view it's more like homofactia and homotruthia - when given enough knowledge.

Political correctness & towing the party line IS a part of the atheist "movement," and thus we don't have rationalism or skepticism, - instead we've got just another religion.

Can you question your dogma? The atheist may well want to accept all of the "yes you can do that" precepts in all cultures, but they're rather loath & unfortunately wary to realize that sometimes there's also value in having stigmas associated with destructive human behaviors.

It's taken me a LONG time to realize this, after taking an Alice in Wonderland style journey through some "let it all hang out" type activities, and having a gay uncle who died of AIDS leaving his regular family with no father, and a gay nephew who spends his life in petty dead end pursuits (eg: posting near naked pictures of himself on facebook & near constant talk of sex with "boys," plus he & his friend's acceptance of a convicted pedophile back into the gay community after he was was released from prison).

So, given enough knowledge, even a liberal can wise up and realize that not everything is equal... Black Atheists of Atlanta helped me realize this, along with my wife who comes from another country - where they never heard of Mormonism and very very little of Christianity.

Daniel Dennett showed us that religion is a natural phenomenon - a realization that can cut both ways.

So, human nature & human morality can be expressed in religion. But just because a given religion says something is bad - that doesn't automatically mean they are wrong. They can merely be expressing a key part of human morality & human nature.

don't throw out the baby with the bathwater: hard work for an ex-religionist

The guy is right:

"...So who is to blame? The breakdown of families, the pernicious promotion of single motherhood as a desirable state, the decline of domestic life so that even shared meals are a rarity, have all contributed importantly to the condition of the young underclass..."

"Years of liberal dogma have spawned a generation of amoral, uneducated, welfare dependent, brutalised youngsters." in the Daily Mail.

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater: hard work for an ex-religionist. But examining how other cultures work who have zero association with your former religion can help re-center and re-root yourself.

many atheist groups ARE religions: gay marriage & liberal dogma

Example of the new de facto religion present among some atheist groups:

"Genuine Atheists and Illegitimate Christians Support Gay Rights."
...by Minnesota Atheists

Shaming. Fear-mongering. Belief Maintenance. Do people in China read the Christian Bible? Not much at all. How about in Russia? Not much. Also, once again, since religion is a natural phenomenon human morality CAN be and IS expressed in religion.

Video response then more commentary:

Quote of comments posted on the Minnesota Atheists page:

Sounds like a religion to me - the religion of the left. "You're not a 'true' atheist or humanist if you don't agree with 100% of the homosexual agenda." Indeed.

Dogma. Heresy. Excommunication. Sounds like a religion. Since religion is a natural phenomenon perhaps we need a new term. How about: "Meme set backed up by dogmas, heresy trials, witch hunts, and virtual or de facto excommunication courts."

Having examined the gay "movement" first hand for several years via a gay nephew & an uncle who died of AIDS, I can attest to the fact that it's rather highly unsavory & petty. It's also, in my view, a "death cult" - part of the more general "death cult" of the left, which embraces other views such as how concerns about overpopulation should mean YOU should not have any kids. A religious dogma that leaves you childless - sounds like a bad one to me.

...speaking as an atheist, and an enlightened humanist & naturalist.

Humanism / naturalism / atheism / science & Enlightenment advocacy does not mean embracing the homosexual agenda 100%, nor the other dogmas of the liberal death cult - not to me, as a human who values life, how we got here, and not wasting the little speck of time we have here.

Examples of atheist groups that are actually religions:

Minnesota Atheists
American Atheists
American Humanist Association
Atheist Community of Austin
Center For Inquiry

We already know Unitarian Univeralism is a religion. It's just that these other groups have now become one also. Leftist religion - still a religion nevertheless, with unquestionable dogmas, elders, and de facto heresy & excommunication trials.

The "gay marriage" question has become a watershed issue, showing not which destructive outlier human behavior "deserves" the "right" to indoctrinate all and suck children into the cult of homosexuality, but rather, to show which supposedly "objective," "skeptical," "free thinking" groups actually, in fact, have any real connection to reason, objectivity, skepticism, free thought, and what could be called: honest true enlightened humanism and naturalism.

Human groups have taboos against destructive behaviors for some damn good reasons. This fact seems largely lost on the naive leftist new-atheism-religionists.

According to a political compass I'm still a leftie in some respects, largely on economic and social welfare issues (eg: the dole, social security, and advocacy for single payer healthcare). On abortion I think it should be discouraged, but legal before viability. On gay marriage I'm against it. Contractual allowance via civil unions - maybe. But marriage's primary focus is and should remain children and continuing the human species. Homosexual sex is inherently non-reproductive, and homosexual culture is generally speaking destructive & petty. Children should not generally speaking be exposed to such culture.

Still a leftie?

Well, since I don't agree with gay marriage, according to the lefties I've spoken with I'm now in the same camp as the ultra-right. Ok, well, on that issue maybe I am - and maybe that fact speaks to the bogusness of the above scale. Maybe "post-modern?" But reportedly post-modernists agree with gay marriage. So it's all rather too simplistic. How about: Honest human?

Take in enough data & maybe you'll change your mind. An honest human would & should do that.

more references and links:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013_08_01_archive.html

8-19-2013 4:44pm

Embrace life: What will you do with your speck of time here?

Advocacy for a enlightened naturalism, humanism, atheism, and memetics ROOTED in human nature, flourishing, life, honest science & history, and in the revolutionary concept that because religion is a natural phenomenon, many of their stigmas & taboos have damn good reasons for being there.

TheGreat Mandala - taking your place on it.

"Liberal values" reportedly includes advocacy for "diversity," but only a diversity of acceptance. What if a given culture has good human-centered reasons for a given taboo or stigma? Does your advocacy for "diversity" include allowing around you people who believe that certain human activities very much need "shame" attached to them? Examples: adultery; wild sex with many partners with no commitment; sex with underage people; and even, heaven forbid, sex with people of the same sex. What if another human culture draws the line of acceptable behavior at a different place than you? Will you welcome into your "big tent" of supposed diversity such cultures & people?

The word "bigot" implies a lack of knowledge. But we have knowledge. Cultures which ascribe shame to some or most all of the activities mentioned above (adultery, homosexuality, etc.) have knowledge - human knowledge about impacts. Belief in some god is just the WAY some humans otherwise preserve  ideas which offer protection from harm & damage, and it's simply the WAY they promote life. But, come to find out (and this is also a revelation for the religionist also), *humans who have no exposure* to the Christian Bible, or the Koran, or the Torah, ALSO have stigmas & taboos regarding the exact same destructive behaviors you're concerned about!

So, we're not talking about Biblical morality, or religious morality - rather, for these widely shared stigmas & taboos, we're talking about HUMAN morality! How's that supposed "humanist" & "naturalist" in America? Can you accept the key concept that being human does, for good reason, include having stigma for behaviors which you currently want to advocate for - for "equal rights?" But not every human behavior is worthy of respect. And it's not bigoted to say this - it's just the facts. Human facts. Natural facts. Human animal facts.

CAN an atheist, an ex-conservative-religionist, look back and realize that at least some of what they were taught while in a cult was in fact stuff rooted in human nature (& therefore worth considering & valuing), as opposed to stuff that was associated with the lies that were in their former religion?

There will be push-back from people who are still very angry at being lied to. I am still angry about this also. But, having examined countries who have zero do to with the religion of my youth, when I examine what THEY do, it makes me more fully realize that the list of taboos in a given religion CAN actually be beneficial to human survival, thriving, and happiness.

14 billion years of evolution by natural selection. You're here. You have one little speck of time. What are you going to do with your time here?

August 19, 2013 7:57am

Family Values Atheism: path to immortality: children; religion is a natural phenomenon - it cuts both ways; thanks black atheists of Atlanta

Family Values Atheism:

Religion is a natural phenomenon - it cuts both ways

The dogmas of a religion can actually be natural

Concern about non-reproductive sex can be natural

Maybe a children need a mommy & a daddy

Maybe if you spend your life in a non-reproductive hole you'll be unhappy as a result

Why I've become more socially conservative: several years of observation of the gay community.

Thanks black atheists of Atlanta, for introducing some much needed skepticism into the "atheist movement."

Bad ideas & dogma can come from anywhere, including the left.

On the left we have dogma, elders, inquisitions, heresy trials, and witch hunts.

Go question liberal dogma in a group of liberals and see what happens.

Excommunication trials - only in Mormonism? No, liberals will happily do these as well.

The only real immortality we can ever experience comes via having children. I'm for questioning liberal dogma that draws us away from that. True & honest & enlightened naturalism, atheism, and humanism means this to me.

Can we open a "Friends of the Black Atheists of Atlanta" branch here?

Maybe if you work to be an ex-gay, maybe that's a good thing. Since I spend several years closely observing gay culture, I feel the need to mention this. Also ready heresy trials will quickly happen if you question this key liberal dogma point.

http://narth.com
http://pfox.org/default.html

Without god is everything permitted? If you listen to the liberals you might think so. But no, we're talking about humans. Humans have built in morality. Without god not everything is permitted - even if the liberals might think so, or act like this is true.

If you force yourself to believe a certain thing - a more deep part of human nature, that can make you unhappy. And being in a dead-end non-reproductive loop can, indeed, make you and everyone unhappy.

Tying into 14 billion years of evolution, directly, by having children is of value. Immortality - great value. More valuable than chasing your tail all your life, and trying to force others to state that your "choice" is just as valuable as any other choice.

Not all things are equal. Not all choices are worthy of respect.

Family values atheism - thanks black Atheists of Atlanta for reminding us that it's possible to have these words exist together. And, we can also thank the people in other countries who aren't members of the American-liberal-dogmatic church - people who may value family over forced relativism. How's that for naturalism & humanism? Examining what people *actually do* and making note that sometimes there's damn good reasons for stigma to be assigned to certain activities. A very hard thing for an ex-religionist to realize.

If you're not careful, a liberal-dogma-questioning epiphany may cause you, Mr. & Mrs. Leftie, to be subjected to a liberal heresy trial. But, you jumped out of one church, you may as well be prepared to jump out of another.

Free speech. Free thought. Freedom from religion, on the right and on the left. And thankfully we're human, so without god not everything is permitted - even if the lefties may de facto act like it is.

8-16-2013 7:38am

updated religious and political views... an atheist moderate / conservative

Here's an update on my religious and political views:

Religion: Atheist

The only gods worth worshiping are love, sex, life, and children.

Make a difference. Do something useful. Think about legacy. Don't be a drunk bum who stares at your own belly button all your life. Find someone else's to stare at instead.

Straight pride is life affirming, and worth valuing and supporting. You wouldn't be here if it weren't for straight pride and dare I say straight sex.

I've observed first hand:

1. A gay uncle who died of AIDS and left his hetero family without a father.

2. A gay nephew who lives and incredibly childish, petty, and stunted life.

3. Homosexual culture at many gay parties and bars.

4. The acceptance of one pedophile (abused 12-16 year olds) into the gay community after being released from prison. Constant talk in gay groups using the term "boy," and an apparent desire on their part to lower the age of consent.

5. A sister who has been sucked into the liberal death cult, where she believes she should have no children because of overpopulation. She's also living a petty and stunted life.

So several years of first hand observation & exploration has yielded this result.

Questioning all dogmas, at first. Initially take a step back. Examining all cultures. Seeing what is at the heart of human nature. Don't take the liberal view or side just by default. Questioning that side also.

Then, here's the hard part: Realize that:

Religion is a natural phenomenon. So not every tenant of a religion is necessarily bad. Some tenants ARE fully natural and rather good, both for the individual, and for the community.

The ONLY PATH to true flesh & blood immortality is reproduction. A mommy. A daddy. Good old fashioned straight sex and marriage. Damn right!

Not everything is equal. Make a difference. Share your memes if you can, but, if in the end you fail to also share your genes, that is too bad for you and for humanity.

Do what you can while you can to not live a stunted life. Ok? If doing so requires taking drastic action (like looking far and wide for a compatible mate - DO IT!). Don't let the liberal meme set leave you as a virtual zero on the great mandala.

Political views: moderate

Socially moderate to conservative.

After several years of first hand observation of "gay culture" I've come to conclude that it's one which is stunted, petty, childish, sad, and a dead end. The ex-gay movement is something worth checking out, if you find that you're either attracted to people of the same sex, or if you've been sucked into that culture.

Economically liberal, with the admission that too many people are on the dole (visit your average social security office on any day to see the status of things). But, the state sponsored dole is better than the Church or the street.

Hawk regarding Islam.

Christopher Hitchens fan.

Wary of cults of personality though.

more info: http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/

Gezi Park - an old Armenian cemetary? Turkey is f-ed up. Armenian Genocide

Remember that park they wanted to save in Turkey? Come to find out it's built on top of an old Armenian cemetery.

"..The Pangaltı cemetery was demolished in the 1930s and in 1939 its marble tombstones were sold and used to build the Gezi Park's fountains and stairs..."

Isn't that nice?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangalt%C4%B1_Armenian_Cemetery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taksim_Gezi_Park

Maybe it should go back to being a cemetery?