An Open Letter to Harald

Hi Harald,

Hope things are going well. I wanted to thank you for making my family possible.

As I was leaving the Mormon Church I was going to university taking physics courses. At that time I thought that 'science and reason' had all the answers. Eventually I sought out atheist and 'humanist' groups, and I found a group you and I used to be members of: Utah Atheists, which later changed their name to Salt Lake Valley Atheists (SLVA), and SLVA was later dissolved and unilaterally absorbed into the separate Atheists of Utah.

Reason & skepticism means being willing to see if our beliefs are falsifiable. But atheist groups do not operate as engines of reason & skepticism. My first exposure to this fact happened as I was attending meetings with you for SLVA.

During one meeting for SLVA, Atheists of Utah existed as a separate entity from SLVA. SLVA was the longer running local atheist group. A president of Atheists of Utah (A of U) was at the SLVA meeting with his pro-life atheist girlfriend. At the SLVA meeting in question, the potential for a merging of SLVA with A of U was discussed. During the meeting members of SLVA stated that a merging was not possible because the girlfriend of the A of U president was pro-life, and it was stated that SLVA had always been 'pro-choice.'

This whole observed experience seemed strange to me at the time. Shouldn't the words 'reason' and 'skepticism' mean that we have an open exchange of ideas? But in this case a pro-life atheist was quickly booted and a merging of two atheist groups was rejected also because of the pro-life stance of a woman in the other group.

A few years later SLVA was unilaterally absorbed into A of U - SLVA was taken over by A of U and essentially simultaneously dissolved. This happened after a.) the past president with his pro-life girlfriend moved out of state and they had a baby together, and b.) A of U was taken over by Gay-Pride festival attendees (local Stonewall Center people).

While the pro-life-girlfrinded A of U president was still president of A of U, he made the mistake of doing membership outreach during 'Pride,' and this then resulted in A of U being completely taken over by 'Pride' participants.

Your wife helped me find my wife. Yes the fact that I have a wonderful family now, is thanks to the efforts of your wife. So thanks to her and you for that.

You were a 'Utah Atheists' person, a group dominated largely by those over 60. SLVA continued in that vein. Whereas the history of A of U differs a bit, in that yes there is now a lot of young people who attend, but mostly all people who love 'Pride' type events.

What is Atheists of Utah? It's a social group for Pride attendees and nothing more. If A of U were about science & reason, they wouldn't boot conservatives. Similarly if SLVA were a group whose focus were science & reason & skepticism, they wouldn't have booted conservatives & refused a merging with A of U back in the days when A of U was headed by an atheist man who had the audacity to have a pro-life girlfriend.

Regardign SLVA, at another meeting I recall a libertarian was invited to speak. At the time of that particular meeting I was still an economic-leftist. Thus during the Q&A I argued vociferously with the libertarian atheist speaker.

With SLVA, they didn't outright boot the rare libertarian, but libertarians were not really welcomed with open arms. The libertarian man was treated, by myself and others at SLVA, rather like a turd in a swimming pool.

After starting a family, I observed that my wife was basically a social conservative, with zero connection to the Bible or Book of Mormon or Quran. Pro-traditional-marriage. Skeptical of outlier pride. It was an eye opening experience.

As is normal for some, the process of starting a family naturally caused my own social views to move in the conservative direction.

Meanwhile I was still attending A of U weekly coffee chats. By this time A of U had been taken over by the Pride attendees and the pro-life girlfriended past president of A of U had moved out of state.

At one Pride-lover-run A of U coffee chat, a foul mouthed lesbian woman bemoaned how she didn't like 'breeders.' I was surprised by the crass and stupid crafting of such a response. Didn't she appreciate how she came into existence? 1.2 billion years of sexual evolutionary history, and then this type of anti-life anti-'breeding' crap comes out of the mouth of people like this foul crass woman.

But her anti-children response was not a one-off. For example for an A of U house party we were explicitly told that the party was 'not children-friendly.'

Back in the days when A of U wasn't run by Pride-Stonewall people, children were always welcome at the A of U parties. But regarding the non-reproductive outliers who love Pride & Stonewall, kids are definitely not on their list of priorities. Thus the 'Pride' incarnation of A of U was overtly anti-children and anti-reproductive-family.

The final straw with A of U came when I told them I liked Duck Dynasty. This stated heresy triggered all the social justice warrior (SJW) inclinations of the A of U leadership. A public heresy trial was conducted for myself on the A of U public facebook forum and I was booted and banned from their forum by their leadership.

So Harald, I voluntarily left the Mormon Church. But, I was booted from one in-person atheist group for my social views. And in subsequent months & years, I've also been booted from many other online atheist/humanist/naturalist groups.

With reactionary-leftist run atheist groups, there are definitely all the trappings of religion present. Dogma. Doctrine. Heresy trials. Excommunications.

I don't think you've been keyed into a lot of this history.

After being booted from A of U, I encountered an ex-Muslim atheist cartoonist who appreciates Ayn Rand. I observed the left's response to the Charlie Hebdo massacre. I observed what happened with the Draw Mohamed Cartoon Art Contest in Garland, Texas, how two Muslims wanted to shoot up the conference, and how the cultural left wanted to ban the conference and blame the victims and conference organizers for the violence - rather than to blame the human spirit destroying cult of Islam. In the wake of Hebdo & Garland, I observed that mostly only libertarians supported freedom of speech.

In the wake of Islamic attacks the cultural left wanted to kiss Mohamed's ass. In response I started to take a first look at the libertarian views on economic issues.

The ex-Muslim atheist cartoonist I referenced keyed me into valuing the general Republican field for the 2016 presidential election. And I discovered other people, such as Mark Steyn, Douglas Murray, and Dave Rubin.

Dave Rubin introduced me to Milo Yiannopoulos. It was Milo who first introduced me to the value of having Trump as president.

I know you remember Christopher Hitchens. Hitchens was the one who first redpilled me regarding the corrupt raping nature of the Clintons. And later I learned of the pay to play whoring and rape enabling ways the Clintons, via the Clinton Cash book by Peter Schweizer and the similarly named graphic novel by Chuck Dixon.

Before the 2016 election, I didn't know much about Trump. Trump didn't have to run. He could have stood by and just let corrupt rape enabling pay to play whoring Hillary slide into office. Instead, he ran, and valiantly so.

Trump apparently wants to save America from the globalist raping whores who want to quash the American dream.

Now, today, I am basically a center right social & economic conservative. Pro-life. Pro-family. Pro-children. Pro-true history. Pro-true-evolution. Pro-true-science. Anti-chosen-forced-outlier. Pro-freedom-of-speech.

It's true that my wife, and my new family, helped me see the evolved & natural value of social conservatism, and social conservatism's power to help humans thrive and be happy.

In my transition away from leftism, there were a few other people who helped in addition to my wife.

They are:

Jordan B. Peterson
Gad Saad
Stefan Molyneux
Some of the people Dave Rubin & Joe Rogan interview on their youtube shows
Steven Crowder
Friend of Hitchens Dinesh D'Souza.

So Harald, as a friend, I've tried to share some of this info with you. During the 2016 election season, I started emailing you more regularly.

Remember that for many years, you would send me general broadcast emails once a month or more on political issues, always advocacting for the leftist side on all issues. But, when I finally returned the favor and started emailing you regular with new info I had found as noted above, you became angry.

In response you to my first few emails after coming out as a conservative you send me an email stating that you would auto-forward all of my emails sent to you back to me. My response to this stonewall & 'facepalm' was to naturally and reasonably take offense. Years of friendship, and helping me find my wife, and many dinners and in person visits, straight out the door when I revealed to you that I had essentially redpilled and become a conservative.

Harald you sleep during the day, and you wake up at about 4:30pm just so that you can watch Mr. Rachel Maddow on MSNBC. You refuse to join Facebook and other social media. You run a legacy website which mostly no one visits now. And you have chosen to have zero exposure to other sources of information beyond whatever it is that MSNBC shovels into your brain on a daily basis.

We still come over to your house on occasion, perhaps once a year now instead of once every two weeks or so as in the past.

When I come over to your house now, I cannot discuss what's really on my mind & what I'm thinking now about life the universe and everything.

Functionally, you have treated me exactly the way Mormon families often treat their dissident members & dissident children: with angry and often a booting out the door. Muslims do this also to their dissident family members. Scientologists also. And yep atheists too. Religious-style booting, to a T.

Functionally, atheist groups you've been a part of treat dissidents who differ with the general group on social or economic issues, they treat such people with disdain and heresy trials and excommunications. Atheist groups act exactly like religions do. Tow the party line, or you're out!

Thus Harald, I question the veracity and validity of the 'leftist project,' as exemplified by:

1. Social Justice Warriors (SJW).
2. The Democrat Party.
3. The Unitarian Universalist Church, which is nothing more than an SJW outlier church and a magnet for reactionary-leftists with hurt feelings about the ultra-right.
4. The Stonewall Centers nationwide, which are denialist cults regarding human nature.
5. Humanist groups, which are seas of grey hair where children are very rare.
6. Atheist groups, which are not really interested in honesty regarding the human condition.

Religion couches evolved traits. This is a damn hard thing for an ex-religionist with a chip on his shoulder to admit.

The 'answer' to the ultra-right isn't ultra-leftism. Rather it's just advocacy for increased honesty.

Yes there are no literal gods. But without god not everything is permitted.

Harald, I thank you because your actions led to a path which then allowed my family to exist. But overall I think my family exists precisely in spite of the anti-children anti-family culture present within leftist run atheist groups (and within general cultural leftism), and not because of any particular pro-family stance of such groups.

A gold star on the forehead of those who're the very best at not having children. This is what the cultural left is about today: slow motion suicide.

As my family was growing, you did somewhat playfully accuse me of having 'Mormon values,' and of wanting more children because I was 'still a closet Mormon.'

No Harald, I'm not a closet Mormon. I'm an 'out of the closet' 1.2 billion year evolved inherently-reproductive sexually-dimorphic sexual-animal, merely doing what I am rather thankfully inclined to do, and what I believe humans thrive best via doing: promoting life!

The abusively-permissive leftist clamors for one-sided stilted 'joys' and pleasures of non-reproductive sex, without recognizing why sex exists in the first place: to have children.

The hippies thought they were just so revolutionary, with all the let it all hang out attitudes and atmosphere. They were noobs and naive fools Harald. They didn't understand that for all of our past history, sex equaled children period.

Your average Whole Foods shopper, who values 'organic' food, should value what human nature really is and why it exists in the first place.

If atheist groups were about reason & skepticism, they'd invite with open arms economic and social conservatives! But they don't!

Religion is do damn natural, that two or more atheists gathered in the name of their usually-leftist reactionary social agenda, can't help but form de facto religions, with all the trappings of religion, and pretty much zero reason, zero honesty, and zero true skepticism.

Harald I say:

Go Trump.

Go Sebastian Gorka.

Go Stephen K. Bannon.

Go Breitbart.

Go Jordan B. Peterson.

Go Milo Y.

Go Gad Saad.

And may the family which you helped create, in spite of your stances & views & history & memberships, continue to grow and thrive. Thanks Harald.

Sincerely,

Jonathan

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Articles relating to my journey to conservatism:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/conservative
Harald Illig

Evangelical & 'religious' atheism - Utah Atheist Brunch

The Salt Lake Valley Atheists group held their monthly Utah Atheist Bunch, on Sunday February 3rd, 2013. Here's a clip from that meeting, and then subsequent commentary added on from the 5th and 6th:

The talk at the meeting regarded whether atheism is a religion. At the front of his talk the speaker stated that "evangelical atheism" is just as bad as other forms of evangelical religion, and he said that atheists should not be "moral busybodies."

After his talk the speaker took a more conciliatory tone to some extent and said that he was mainly concerned about tactics. Also during his talk he said that it may be appropriate to respond to other religionists if they were procreatory.

Is atheism a religion? Not in the traditional sense. In religions usually there's leaders who cannot be questioned. Atheists tend to value science & try to reject dogma. Scientists get ahead in science by actually disproving, overturning, or adding to previous theories. Usually religious organizations reject and resist change and challenges to their core leaders & doctrines.

There is a lot of provocation going on from regligionists. Mormons send out their missionaries, they interrogate children and adults about masturbation, necking, petting, sex outside of marriage, and even oral sex in marriage. Catholic priests rape children en masse, and Catholics & conservative Anglicans have thrown their pretty women and women who had sex outside of marriage into asylums. Islamic people require that their women live in the prison of the burqa, niqab, and hijab.

More info:
My own writings including info on Islam & Mormonism:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm

Related info:
Sam Harris on science being able to comment on morality:
http://www.samharris.org/media/video

Scott Atran & Sam Harris debating:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sam+harris+scott+atran

Mormon oral sex letter:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

Catholic child rape:
http://www.bishop-accountability.org

Christians locking women up who were too pretty, or who had sex outside of marriage:
Magdalene asylums
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_asylum

Related video on the issue - Sex in a cold climate - documentary:

Tawfik Hamid on fear of sexuality in Islam:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/happy-world-hijab-day-its-gonna-be-good.html

A link to Galileo's sentencing document, can be found on my post at
DNA, the Book of Mormon, and Creationists: blowing smoke in response to science & facts
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/dna-book-of-mormon-and-creationists.html

options in Utah for meeting with secular advocates

Here's info on local atheist groups in & near Salt Lake:

Salt Lake Valley Atheists. Meets the 1st Sunday at Sizzler on 4th South at 11:30AM. Kirk Robinson is the speaker this month. Eat if you wish, but it's not required. Come to the back room. For more info: http://nowscape.com/a

Many attendees are exmos. The group is purposefully politically liberal for what it's worth.

Another group, Atheists of Utah, has coffee chats every Thursday. More info on that:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/atheistsofutah/
or
http://www.meetup.com/aofuslc/#calendar

Atheists of Utah is a 501C3 type group and so is "officially" politically neutral, but attendees can have whatever views they wish & debate & discuss freely. The coffee chats tend to be a churning type of experience, and they can be fun if you decide to simply talk to your neighbor. Location Mestizo's Coffeehouse, 7-9:30PM. More info on the website.

The above groups, and this group, are members of UCOR, the Utah Coalition of Reason. http://reasonutah.org/

The yearly Exmormon Foundation conferences in Salt Lake have never had a "Christian" agenda per se - mostly a secular one of learning to live life after being in the circle of the cult. http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/

There are two Unitarian Universalist congratulations in the Salt Lake valley and some former mos attend. My own personal satisfaction level with each congregation has varied & wavered over time. From a cultural perspective the meetings & layout are more similar to Catholic & Anglican services rather than Mormon. The kids are, for example, sent away to rooms instead of being allowed to stay with their parents. Also they tend to have a paid preacher - who does admittedly tend to be very socially liberal, but still it's usually the same person speaking every week. The UU's in general have some taboos about being truly honest about he problems with religion though, and so sadly they have their heads in the sand as much as other religions to some extent. But nevertheless they are a socializing option you could consider if you wish. My further concerns about UUism: http://tinyurl.com/beqls4b

There is one or two decidedly "Christian" exmo groups locally.
Example: http://www.meetup.com/Salt-Lake-City-Ex-Mormon-Meetup

My view on such things is that people are unfortunately jumping from one cult to another. That's my view, and I won't belong to any group that would seek to censor my trying to speak my mind. I try not to be a cultural relativist, so I could say "if that what floats your boat, so be it" but I won't because doing so makes me feel bad.

Here again is a more full list of groups that ARE stronger advocates for secularism and the fruits of the Enlightenment: http://reasonutah.org/groups/

Try them all - as on that site. And don't forget that in some there is a weekly or monthly churning. So if irritating people show up one week, maybe next time you'll find more interesting people - or you could be the interesting person yourself.