Recoverying from cults on the right and the left

Ok regarding meme sets called cults, I've been a member of more than one:

1st: The Mormon meme set. Still a cult, with a slow trajectory toward being less cult like. Founded by two polygamists who had a.) underage wives (this is called: pedophilia & child rape), and b.) wives who were still married to other men (this is called: adultery).

The Mo Church dumped polygamy, which was good, but splinter groups who also worship Joseph Smith continue the practice. I've toured first hand polygamous cities in & near Utah. And we've been bowling next to a gaggle of polygamous women & a few of their kids. I also see them at grocery stores near me on occasion. Splinter group Mormons.

In more recent years the Mo Church decided to micro-manage the sex lives of their members. In 1982 Prophet of God Spencer Kimball issued a directive stating that oral sex was not approved of god. Think about the content and procedure of such a letter going out to Mormon members. Consider very carfully the impact on the lives of regular people of such a directive.

Next Spencer Kimball told the youth of the church that masturbation could easily turn them into homosexuals. He also stated that >mandatory< interviews regarding masturbation were >required< with Mormon bishops. Such interviews were also common at the Mormon Missionary Training Center.

Consider very carefully the impact on people's lives of such misinformation & abuse.

Now, Kimball's lying abusive book Miracle of Forgiveness (oxymoron title) was recently removed from the Mo church distribution centers, after being present there in multiple languages. This happened with the past 5 years or so. But before about 5 years ago, this crap book was again in multiple languages, and given to young people & adults as required reading: https://archive.org/stream/MiracleOfForgiveness/MoF_djvu.txt

So, the dumping of Miracle of Forgiveness from the Mo Church distribution centers (the stores members go to buy religious study materials directly from the church), well that's a move in the non-cult direction.

But, and this is a huge point, the interrogations of young people & adults regarding sexual matters continues. Thus, still a cult.

If you question the leaders you are blocked from access to the temples of the church, and you might be put in trial and booted from the church. Thus, still a cult.

Some members will still threaten you personally if you publicly question church teachings and church leadership. Thus, still a cult.

There is still incredibly strong social pressure to >never< question what the top leaders say. Thus, still a cult.

2nd: The cult of cultural leftism, which I much later leaned results from cultural neomarxist postmodernism. The cultural left denies science & reason & evidence & human nature every day & all the time.

Was Margaret Sanger a eugenicist? Yes she was.

Do children absolutely require, for their own well being, a mother AND a father? Yes, for concrete and proven evolutionary reasons.

Does the birth control pill alter, in bad and dangerous ways, the mental health and mate preferences of human females? Yes.

Should a mother, ideally and if at all possible, stay home with her children for as long as possible, for the best well being of the children? Yes.

Are women paid less than men for equal work? No.

Is there systemic racism in America? No, and there's hasn't been any such for many years now.

Are humans a gender binary species? Yes.

Is capitalism & full free speech the best ways for humans to thrive best? Yes.

Did Karl Marx fundamentally misunderstand human nature? Yes. Do all socialist / communist / Marxist systems eventually fail? Yes. Are they human spirit destroying Ponzi schemes? Yes.

Is monogamy the best way for humans to mate & have kids, a system which is best both for female & male & children well being? Yes.

Do religions couch evolved morality & evolved traits? Yes.

What are the leftist answers to all the above? Pretty much exactly the opposite of what the facts & our own evolved natures show. Thus on point after point, the cultural left, is a fraking cult.

Masturbation doesn't make you a homosexual as was claimed by Spencer Kimball, although telling kids it easily can or will does unfortunately generate many ultra-leftist angry reactionaries who end up in the other-cult known as Stonewall & "Pride." But, when you're of dating age and especially when above the age of 21, directing your sexual energies toward inherent reproduction is a strategy for success.

I spent many years as an ultra-leftist reactionary. A ping pong game from ultra-right to ultra-left. From one cult to another.

A few of my nephews & nieces (and an uncle) weren't unscathed from the abuses of the ultra-left. And frankly those who were hobbled (& killed) were victims of BOTH the ultra-right AND the ultra-left. A reactionary pingpong game.

Yes people deserve to know the truth. Are you being held back by entrenched dogma & doctrines? A dogma is a premise which cannot be questioned by definition.

Yes we can question whether cultural neomarxist postmodernism is a cult and comprises a set of lies or not. Yes we can question human nature. We can question whether scientific propositions are true or not.

Joseph Smith was a charlatan, but there's a great deal of charlatanry going on on the cultural left also, charlatanry with far wider abusive scope than the influence of the itty bitty religion of Mormonism.

Leftist atheists want into your bedroom far more than the right! Evolved morality is couched within religious contexts. An open letter to 'New Atheists,' such as Michael Shermer, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, Faisal Saeed Al Mutar, and others. Also to: The Atheism Plus crowd. Atheists of Utah. Atheist Community of Austin. Unitarian Universalist 'humanist' groups. To all these.

Evolved morality is couched within religious contexts. This fact is completely and utterly lost on atheists who are much more concerned with pushing abusively-permissive social-leftism than in being honest about religion.

(link to video: https://youtu.be/gA-F3p1OBmM )

Leftist atheists want into your bedroom and your bathroom - far more than the right. 'New Atheists' advocate for abusive-permissiveness, and for the mandatory forced-outlier-acceptance, of neomarxist postmodernist social leftism.

Abuses of the ultra-right, generate reactionary ultra-leftists.

When I was a Mormon I found that the ultra-right is very interested in what happens in bedrooms. The Mormon Church does go too far, via claiming that masturbation can readily lead to homosexuality, and that oral sex is bad. They also go too far via constant interrogations regarding sex. They push people, right over the edge and into the hands of abusively permissive reactionary ultra-leftists.

Islam of course goes much further in the abusive-shaming direction, with death penalties for going unveiled or alone on the street if you're a woman and so on.

Thus the ultra-right is interested in what happens in our bedrooms. But, so is the ultra-left.


With the cultural right, there's a great advocacy for having children and for normal family values.

With the cultural left, they claim that non-reproductive outlierism is the pinnacle of human achievement, and there is great advocacy for the exact opposite of family values.

Forced non-reproductive outlierism is not the touchstone upon which 100,000 years of human evolutionary history is based. Leftist atheists see not having children as being the highest moral & social value & goal.

Leftist atheists essentially ask: 'What type of non-reproductive outlier can you come out as! Choose, so you can get a gold star on your forehead, and rise up on the racist bigoted group rights group blames hierarchy of the left.'

The 'new atheists' / leftist atheists want an utter rejection of social conservatism. They lump in social conservatism with the derogatory label of "theocracy." The New Atheists fail to see how religions couch evolved traits.

Under the thin veneer of mysticism, some damn useful evolved human values are present.

Examples:

1. Pro-reproduction.
2. Pro-Family.
3. Pro-Children.
4. Pro-Life.
5. Pro-Good-Tradition.
6. Pro avoiding destructive dead end and suicidal behaviors.

Leftists in our bedrooms and bathrooms.

The people who want to get into my bedroom and bathroom most these days, are on the cultural left. Gender non-binarity and 'trans' bullshit: allowing mentally ill men to forcibly enter the restrooms of women and girls. Brainwashing children regarding gender and "sexual orientation," AKA advocating for both gender-dysphoria and sexual-orientation-dysphoria - and punishing dissenters religious-cult-style with heresy trials, excommunications, oh and the law too where the abusive crazies have their hands on the wheels of power.

Leftist Atheists want to draw my children into a victimhood competition, and one where outlierism is valued above all else.

Leftist eugenicist Margaret Sanger bankrolled both the abattoir of Planned Patenthood and the birth control pill. The latter item has had a nuclear bomb type impact upon humanity, and has left teens and adults not knowing why and how they got here in the first place.

I agree with Jordan Peterson on such fronts, although I arrived at my conclusions before finding Peterson. But he's right.

Leftist Atheists seek to tear evolved social conservatism out from both Christianity and Islam. They are following in the footsteps of a long line reactionary naive denialist fools.

Ultra right.

Ultra left in response.

A ping pong game.

And two sides of the same coin abusive coin.

A more moderate approach is called for.

Fact 1: Yes there's damn good reasons to avoid destructive dead end behaviors.

Fact 2: But if you are too harsh in your approach re fact 1, and if you lie to people about what the consequences are for lower level more harmless behaviors, you will generate reactionary fools in response.

Some people are waking up. Example: Former forced abusive outlier Doug Mainwaring.

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/author/doug-mainwaring/

There are evolved behaviors which can and do make us happy: family; children; helping our family & children & others; telling the truth about life the universe and everything. Quelling the darker angels of our nature, and also using those darker angels as a power for positive good.

In conclusion, stay out of our bedrooms Mr. & Mrs. & 'It-Outlier' Leftie, with your lies about human nature and about evolution and our evolved nature as sexually-dimorphic gender-binary sexually-reproducing sexual-animals.

Religion couches evolved traits. Live with it. Deal with it. Value it.

And as for the mystical claims, I suggest that a lot of them have, wait for it, evolved value too! Popular stories passed down for damn good reasons, and some of those reasons are damn valuable.

Sincerely,

Jonathan

-------------

Further references: 

'My Journey to Conservatism'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2016/09/my-journey-to-conservatism.html

Conservative Naturalism
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/conservative%20naturalism
'Lies present in conservative religion force children into the abusive arms of the denialist myopic left.'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2016/02/lies-present-in-conservative-religion.html

'UMFA and UMOCA unsafe for women and girls'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2017/09/umfa-and-umoca-unsafe-for-women-and.html

'Lives and families are destroyed by Tranny and Gay acceptance and promotion - LGBT abusive outliers are not equal'

https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/07/lives-and-families-are-destroyed-by.html

'Family Values Atheism: Questioning liberal dogma -- the Gay Flag: Freaks Welcome Here -- questioning gay marriage'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/family-values-atheism-questioning.html

'The Western Enlightenment versus Democrat leftist slavery'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-western-enlightenment-versus.html

Mormonism and oral sex:

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html

In 1982, the Mormon God speaks about oral sex through his prophets, seers, and revelators:
Page 1: http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
page 2: http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet,_seer,_and_revelator

A relevant parody of the situation: http://stakepresident.blogspot.com/2011/05/oral-abstinence-key-to-happy-fulfilling.html

-----------

Addendum regarding the Mormon claim that whacking off can make you gay:
---quote begins

Chapter Six 

Crime Against Nature 

—Their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust 
one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly— 
— Romans 1:26-27 

Youth come into contact early with masturbation. Many would-be authorities declare that it is natural 
and acceptable, and frequently young men I interview cite these advocates to justify their practice of it. 
To this we must respond that the world's norms in many areas-drinking, smoking, and sex experience 
generally, to mention only a few-depart increasingly from God's law. The Church has a different, higher 
norm. 

Thus prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is 
detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward 
godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man 
should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. 

While we should not regard this weakness as the heinous sin which some other sexual practices are, it is 
of itself bad enough to require sincere repentance. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even 
to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation- 
practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality. 

---from 'Miracle of Forgiveness' (what a bullshit title), by Mormon Prophet Spencer Kimball.
https://archive.org/stream/MiracleOfForgiveness/MoF_djvu.txt 

Response:

What Mormons do to their children and adults on the above front, with interrogations and grilling regarding normal coming of age activities, does push many to be forced abusive outliers. From the Mormon Temple to the local Stonewall Center. This is the common & normal path for children & adults so abused. Two sides of the same coin.

With such harshness, the Mormons hurt their otherwise worthy goals to help humans avoid destructive dead end outlier type activities. Also for many kids in Mormonism, this is their "sex ed," where they learn about homosexuality first.

Let us agree that there are behaviors which are not helpful and which lead to dead ends.

If we were to take was social conservatives advocate for, and make five word summaries of each, and live by those advocacies, we would all be more happy, more happy naturally as per our evolved natures. This is something both the utlra-right and the ultra-left should make note of.

If you ignore evolved facts, you will pay a price. And if you push to far in the shame direction, you will get very bad reactionary results.

Leftist atheists want into your bedroom far more than the right! Evolved morality is couched within religious contexts. An open letter to 'New Atheists,' such as Michael Shermer, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, Faisal Saeed Al Mutar, and others. The Atheism Plus crowd. Atheists of Utah. Atheist Community of Austin. Unitarian Universalist 'humanist' groups. To all these. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Stonewall.

Has your life been happier after leaving Mormonism?

Questions: "...How has life been since you left the LDS church? Do you feel like you're happier?"

Yes, I'm happier, for many reasons.

I'm also upset, for other reasons.

Happy because:

1. I have a wife & kid who aren't Mormon.
2. I'm out.
3. I can touch my John Thomas.
4. I can engage in oral sex.
5. I can drink coffee, tea, and cabernet sauvignon wine.
6. I can watch Destricted, or Caligula without shame or guilt.
7. My kid won't be a Mormon.
8. I'm more intellectually honest.
9. I'm more emotionally honest.
10. I'm no longer in the soul-destroying culture of Mormonism.

Upset because:

A. The "recovery" groups like Atheists of Utah, Unitarian Universalism, CFI, Humanist groups, Minnesota Atheists, Atheism Plus, and even your local Stonewall center (for those so sucked in), are all de facto ultra-leftist religions, with their own unquestionable dogmas & doctrines. Denying human nature & human history, while claiming to be skeptical. Assuming that everything IS permitted when there is no god, even though it's not.

B. The defeatist Krausian mayfly theory of human existence is out there in the secular community, teaching atheists to be just as nihilistic as your average evangelical Christian.

C. Finding that the left can be just as abusive as the right.

D. Finding that the left is so incredibly myopic about the entire scope of human experience. Only the hippie tribes are valued. But desert tribes, or even Chinese tribes, oh, we must ignore them. Hippie colored glasses slant their view.

E. On the other hand, I'm also upset that the Mormon Church continues to destroy the lives of children & adults, via wide publication in many languages of incredibly abusive books like Miracle of Forgiveness. I'm also upset that sexually intrusive interviews still happen with children & adults.

More: http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/

Bathroom dreams in Mormon temples | Not everyone in Utah is Mormon

Last night I had a bathroom dream about a Mormon Temple. The temple I dreamt of had a special Anglican cathedral looking wing, where a bookstore was & where anyone could visit. In the basement where the ceremonies happen the staff let me use the restroom.

I remember as a little chumplet 12 year old dreaming of going to the temple so that I could do baptisms for the dead. Then when I was 21 at Ricks College I was a temple worker at the Idaho Falls Temple, and then later while back in Salt Lake at the Jordan River temple. So temples do creep into my dreams sometimes. But often my dreams will make some modifications. Bigger, or with a gothic wing added. Hmmm.

[Above photo from a Jerry's sandwich shop near the D.C. Temple.
Notice the Wizard of Oz theme appropriately and aptly added.
Click on the photo to see a larger version.]
Why do Mormons build temples so close to freeways? The D.C. & Portland temples are right there next to the freeways. Huge buildings with bright lights - easily causing traffic accidents. And yet they won't let you go inside.

To go inside you must agree to:

1. Have no coffee.
2. Have no black tea.
3. Support & sustain past & present leaders, including Joseph Smith, Spencer Kimball, and Thomas Monson.
4. Not engage in oral sex.
5. Not engage in pre-marital sex.
6. Not engage in masturbation.

What an abusive requirements list. No wonder the people who do go inside are often so very anally-retentive.

Pay Lae Ell can go to hell. That's what I decided.

Hey, I remember as a kid in Mormon Sunday School learning John Birch Society conspiratorial stuff, such as:

A. Some day the U.S. Constitution will be hanging by a thread.
B. The Elders of Israel (ie: Mormons) will come to save it.
C. Some day we'll all have to move back to Missouri.
D. When that happens non-Mormons will be able to enter the Salt Lake Temple.

Glenn Beck has stupidly bought into a lot of this conspiratorial shit.

But in any case: Would that be so bad to letting people who aren't anally retentive bass ackward Mormons into the temples?

Hey, oral sex, masturbation, coffee, and cabernet sauvignon wine loving atheist exmormons do get to walk around the Salt Lake Temple, and check out the pretty little door knobs:

Brigham Young came up with the beehive symbol supposedly, the symbol for Utah.

It takes a big beehive to house all the wives of Brigham Young. He had to have TWO houses to house all his wives, the Lion & Beehive house. Hmmm. Plus some of his wives were still married to other men.

Anyway, not everyone who lives in Utah is a fucking Mormon. Attention, this is true!

Yes, some people in Utah like wine, coffee, tea, masturbation, and oral sex! It's true my friend...

Jesus wants me for an asshole: the song of LDS missionaries, bishops, and prophets

Parody of the song: Jesus wants me for a sunbeam
reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27ll_Be_a_Sunbeam

New version: Jesus wants me for an asshole.

A special version of the song which more accurately describes life in the Mormon Church, and especially regarding the leaders of Mormonism past & present. Mention is also made of Mormon leaders Spencer Kimball, Boyd Packer, and others. Plus also of my special time spent in Alaska on a Mormon mission.

And also commentary about Ukraine.

More info:

On past Mormon prophet Spencer Kimball and current Mormon apostle Boyd Packer:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html

Ron Pugmire, the first Mormon Bishop who introduced me both to masturbation interrogation interviews, and to Spencer Kimball's evil book Miracle of Forgiveness.
http://www.icse.utah.edu/person72

I remember asking Ron if women ever masturbate, as a naive ~12 year old. I think he said they did, but less than men. Sex education, straight from the Mormon Church. Thanks Joseph Smith!

People accurately describing the evil of Spencer Kimball's book:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-Forgiveness-Spencer-Kimball/product-reviews/0884944441/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

Wives of Joseph Smith. One 14 year old, plus women still legally married to other men:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives

Wives of Brigham Young. One 15 year old, plus women still legally married to other men:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives

Related song about the homeworld of the Mormon God, where there's no oral sex, masturbation, nor anyone named Rex or Nate.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html

Related song about how we were all just sperm in God's balls:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/we-were-all-just-sperm-in-gods-balls.html

Ukraine couple moving from Crimea to Kiev:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gpbv8G9jtI

IMG 7982 - 3-11-2014 8:35am

Life on Kolob: Endless sex & a lot of pigu kissing; Johnny Lingo; 8 cow wife; Lamanite DNA

Johnny Lingo; 8 cow wife. Mormon films and productions fall into a scale with at least two dimensions: campy versus professional, and anally retentive versus friendly.

The film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfahoLfrddU

Chat with a Mormon:
http://mormon.org/chat
...chat with a brain washed person - today.

My responses:
Launch a mission to Kolob - more versions & info:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html

Where is the Lamanite DNA?
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/dna_additional.htm
Simon: http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com/

IMG 7666 2-28-2014 7:24am

Star Trek; Sneaky Biology; Built in human morality; Fun includes work; Can I join your church?

Commentary on Star Trek Enterprise.

On the new Star Trek movie franchise: Not Star Trek - should instead be called "Kiddie Trek" or "Millennials Trek."

The original Star Trek is rather like Shakespeare. Should we change the stories of Shakespeare? No. Changing the basic story lines of the original story lines is not what they do with Shakespeare & it's not what people should do with Star Trek.

Roddenberry wrote cowboy stories. We need cowboys in space. If we use robots forever, what happens when the sun gets 10% hotter & the sun boils off? The childless liberal hippie may well be extinct, but the "breeders" won't be. Childless liberals get what they want: no place on the great mandala.

Biology can sneak up on everyone, left & right. Thank goodness.

See what birth control does now: We have people who think that the child-free life is just as good as one with children. Catholics have a point. It's not what's in the Bible - it's basic human morality, nature, instincts, and survival.

In Mormonism & other religions they teach you to be afraid of sexual thoughts.

If you're a Mormon wife, maybe you shouldn't wear your temple garments at night, or even during the day. Wearing them interferes with your ability to be intimate with your husband. No wonder he's looking at porn so much even though he's married to you.

Religion can fuck you up, but religion is a natural phenomenon. So we have to separate the lies from the truth. That's why I like Bart Ehrman. He helps separate the lies from the truth.

You have can you religion & your values. You can be pro-life, and wary of birth control. You can be wary of the homosexual agenda. Why? Because you can tie into natural normal human morality & human nature. You can use your brain to evaluate the outcomes of various activities & thought processes.

You don't have to believe in the lies of your religion to hold onto your values. True humanist values! True naturalist values! Being natural includes having stigmas for destructive behaviors - that's the key epiphany that I've had.

We don't have to lie to say the truth.

Can I join your church? If I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus, but I think there's some valid & good human values in the Bible & in other books that humans have written?

Humans write human stuff. Some of the groups that have Bart Ehrman debating, I think they actually believe the guy. They can't move along the road because they're afraid that without their god everything is permitted. They look at the ultra-leftie liberals & thin this. But, you can codify your values without having to believe in lies. Examine things objectively and make judgements. Judging can be highly valuable.

Remember the Great Mandala song by Peter, Paul, and Mary. "...Win or lose now you must choose now..."

Fun includes work, hippie, and not just staring at your own naval all your life.

September 4, 2013 7:37am

Church History museum; Chinese family values; atheist & humanist groups are religions too.

Commentary on our visit to the LDS Church History Museum and to Temple Square. We saw the new Boy Scout exhibit at the museum, the golden plates, the angel Macaroni (I mean Moroni), and so on.

Built in human morality fully exists within religions, and also in less religious societies like China. How can we separate the useful facts of human morality in religion from the lies? It's hard work.

Mormonism is a modern cult - a cult in a suit and a tie. But new atheist and humanist groups are religions also - where you have lies you cannot question, and where you have to be politically correct for fear of not being a "genuine" atheist or humanist.

Religions do have some good ideas, but you wouldn't realize that unless you: a.) spent several years checking out all the hippie crap, and b.) going to gay bars & parties with your gay nephew, and c.) making note of how a convicted pedophile was gladly accepted back into your nephew's friend group after leaving prison, and d.) going to Portland and seeing what people do there via an Alice in Wonderland style journey, and e.) marrying a woman from China - where they never heard of Joseph Smith and very little of Jesus. Also making note of how your gay uncle died of AIDS leaving his regular normal family with no father will help expand your perspective. So, in spite of their bullshit, the Mormon & Catholic churches do have some very good ideas and ideals.

Why do religions have to support themselves with lies? Even the atheistic versions of religions have lies? Lies about the negative impacts of the ultra-left agenda.

The crazy ideas are mixed in with some good and useful truths. It's all integrated together. So, how can we separate out useful fact from harmful fiction? Perhaps one key way is this: refusing to be politically correct!

Maybe China is showing us the way: family values! They don't believe in Jesus or Joseph Smith, and yet they have a great deal of good valuable down home family values. They aren't perfect either, but they do value family.

But: Shhh! In atheist & humanist groups have to be very quiet about what you really think - and so such groups are religion also. So watch out!

Reject political correctness and embrace family values.

8-27-2013 7:32am

Reza Aslan is the Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth; & more on Mormonism

Comments on Reza Aslan news book: Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth

Also on the Mormon Church History Museum, & the Mormon Pioneer Trek program

July 18, 2013 - 7:40am

More info: http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/
Pages by a friend with more info on Mormonism & Islam: http://nowscape.com/

Related books:
Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed at All
by David Fitzgerald
http://www.amazon.com/Nailed-Christian-Myths-Jesus-Existed/dp/0557709911

Aslan's book:
http://www.amazon.com/Zealot-Life-Times-Jesus-Nazareth/dp/140006922X/

Debate between Sam Harris & Aslan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKjcvZoxT9Q

Bart Ehrman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman

Life of Brian film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCd-ogwLQ38

Mormon meeting house visit - 2-17-2013

My wife & son & I attended part of the Mormon meeting this morning. We tried some bread and water, listened to a couple of hymns, and part of a boring wrote-recitation-style talk by some lady. My son's fussiness gave us an excuse to escape early.

We went to the same meeting house where my father's family had Christmas parties when I was young. Last weekend the monk at the Salt Lake Buddhist Temple suggested that we just go back to our first religion. So today I followed his advice & we tried out Mormonism today. The result? Same old boring stuff. Oh, and the sound was up too loud in the place. On the way out we saw pictures of the leaders. As we passed by Spencer Kimball's photo we made note of his abhorrence for certain, if not most, expressions of sexuality.
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml
http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-violence-of-buddhism-relativism.html

lds.org : discover the perversity or Mormonism

lds.org : discover the perversity or Mormonism

Go to lds.org. Search for the following terms:

masturbation
necking
"petting"
fornication
atheist
atheism

Find out what these people actually think about the human condition.

Also, read the horrible book viewable at
http://web.archive.org/web/20100712035957/http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt
...by past Mormon prophet Spencer Kimball. While in that document do text searches for the same words.

Then in response, read the following reviews of this book:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-Forgiveness-Spencer-Kimball/product-reviews/0884944441/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

More info:

My own pages:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm

Audio from past exmormon conferences:
http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/conference-archive.html

Also current Mormon apostle believes that atheists are all moral relativists. What a bunch of bulls#|t. Atheists are humans too.

For example check out:
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2013/02/balancing-truth-and-tolerance
where Dallin Oaks says:

"...For example, an atheist has no need to decide what kinds and occasions of profanity or blasphemy can be tolerated and what kinds should be confronted. Persons who don’t believe in God or in absolute truth in moral matters can see themselves as the most tolerant of persons. For them, almost anything goes. This belief system can tolerate almost any behavior and almost any person. Unfortunately, some who believe in moral relativism seem to have difficulty tolerating those who insist that there is a God who should be respected and that there are certain moral absolutes that should be observed..."

My response: What a shallow, obtuse, non-sequitur, and just plain wrong evaluation of what & who atheists are. We fight against abusive religions like yours because there's good reason to do so. And no, being an atheist does not automatically make one a moral relativist. I am not one, Mr. Oaks.

Sam Harris, on science helping to determine that is moral (videos found):
https://www.youtube.com/results?q=moral+landscape

Myths about atheists - Mormon & other religious leaders are especially interested in putting out lies about atheists:
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/10-myths-and-10-truths-about-atheism1

Dawkins on atheist morality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aCRHjH6d4Q

Also check out the morality in the Bible, Quran, and Book of Mormon:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/BOM/index.htm

For each scriptural text you can find good sections about the complete lack of morality via clicking on the following terms:

Injustice

Cruelty and Violence

Intolerance

Contradictions

Science and History

Family Values

Interpretation

Misogyny

Sex

And what of the morality of Mormon leaders?

On oral sex, past Mormon prophet Spencer wants to get into your bedroom:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

On masturbation, past Mormon prophet Spencer Kimball & Mormon apostle Boyd Packer both want to have a look:
http://www.zionsbest.com/only.html
http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/masturbation.htm

Subverting normal human sexuality: Mormon Church's principal crime
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/subverting-normal-human-sexuality.html

Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, gets to have a 14 year old wife & wives who are still married to other men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith's_wives

Brigham Young, the second Mormon prophet, gets a 15 year old & wives still married to other men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young's_wives

Sin and Death in Mormon Country - about the costs of shaming children about masturbation:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080620075156/http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml

Evangelical & 'religious' atheism - Utah Atheist Brunch

The Salt Lake Valley Atheists group held their monthly Utah Atheist Bunch, on Sunday February 3rd, 2013. Here's a clip from that meeting, and then subsequent commentary added on from the 5th and 6th:

The talk at the meeting regarded whether atheism is a religion. At the front of his talk the speaker stated that "evangelical atheism" is just as bad as other forms of evangelical religion, and he said that atheists should not be "moral busybodies."

After his talk the speaker took a more conciliatory tone to some extent and said that he was mainly concerned about tactics. Also during his talk he said that it may be appropriate to respond to other religionists if they were procreatory.

Is atheism a religion? Not in the traditional sense. In religions usually there's leaders who cannot be questioned. Atheists tend to value science & try to reject dogma. Scientists get ahead in science by actually disproving, overturning, or adding to previous theories. Usually religious organizations reject and resist change and challenges to their core leaders & doctrines.

There is a lot of provocation going on from regligionists. Mormons send out their missionaries, they interrogate children and adults about masturbation, necking, petting, sex outside of marriage, and even oral sex in marriage. Catholic priests rape children en masse, and Catholics & conservative Anglicans have thrown their pretty women and women who had sex outside of marriage into asylums. Islamic people require that their women live in the prison of the burqa, niqab, and hijab.

More info:
My own writings including info on Islam & Mormonism:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm

Related info:
Sam Harris on science being able to comment on morality:
http://www.samharris.org/media/video

Scott Atran & Sam Harris debating:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sam+harris+scott+atran

Mormon oral sex letter:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

Catholic child rape:
http://www.bishop-accountability.org

Christians locking women up who were too pretty, or who had sex outside of marriage:
Magdalene asylums
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_asylum

Related video on the issue - Sex in a cold climate - documentary:

Tawfik Hamid on fear of sexuality in Islam:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/happy-world-hijab-day-its-gonna-be-good.html

A link to Galileo's sentencing document, can be found on my post at
DNA, the Book of Mormon, and Creationists: blowing smoke in response to science & facts
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/dna-book-of-mormon-and-creationists.html

even the Romans did it...

even Romans did it...

as from a fresco in the public baths at Pompeii
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotic_art_in_Pompeii_and_Herculaneum

Compare & contrast with what you may have been told.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170415164512/http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

...The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice.  If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it...

Related blog, which is apparently a parody:
https://stakepresident.blogspot.com/2011/05/oral-abstinence-key-to-happy-fulfilling.html

And a relevant quote from the comments section of linked to blog:

President, I have a very embarrassing yet pertinent question I feel I must raise. As a daughter of Zion, I have always kept myself pure unto the Lord, which has led to some difficulties in the marital bed. My dear husband has discovered the key to unlocking my glorious God-given pleasure center is through his own oral skills. In fact, I cannot achieve a certain high point without such activity. If we follow our Lord's annointed's advice, I fear I shall never achieve sexual satisfaction again. What is more important do you think? Perhaps continue this practice and then repent once we are old and don't care about sex any more? Oh help me President, I am so torn!! 

As for the Pompeii bath house art shown above, I've found that there's apparently other humans with similarly healthy exuberance also.

Fertility festivals found:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanamara_Matsuri

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C5%8Dnen_Matsuri

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCIjjvl1JQE


Additional:
https://www.google.com/search?q=fertility+festivals&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1280&bih=839

And on my own older website:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/art.htm#Pompeii

Orgazmo film, Mormonism, and Sex

We watched Orgazmo during the past few days & enjoyed it very much.

Here's the film on youtube:

and more info about the film:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgazmo

Trey Parker has apparently had a fascination with Mormon culture, although as an outsider he doesn't quite understand everything. For example his portrayal of a Mormon family in the South Park episode All About Mormons he portrays a Mormon family as being more happy than other families, and that a kid in that family didn't really care about the wacky stuff in this religion. But his portrayal of what life is really like in Mormon families is not quite accurate. There's also a lot of pain, stress, and guilt. Also in Utah there's a great deal of anti-depressant use. Here's the video of the episode:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s07e12-all-about-mormons
and more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_About_Mormons

When I first saw Orgazmo several years ago I knew the best thing that could happen would be for all Mormons, especially all old the fart Mormon leaders, to immediately receive the influence of the following device, an orgazmorator.

When they're up there in General Conference giving stuffy nosed I-am-so-important-when-I-speak-in-a-low-voice pompous pious speeches, the best thing that could ever happen would be for such a device to be activated, so that they & all the crowd assembled would be similarly affected.

Related info:
http://www.salamandersociety.com/media/movies/ryans/
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,23229

When Spencer Kimball hyperventilated and dreamed of necking, petting, heavy petting, masturbation, and oral sex, all while he wrote the following documents, I'm sure he would have benefited from such a device.
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml - make special note of this page
http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt

Related video:

Mormonism & oral sex - Hi, I'm a Mormon, or I was one for 26 years.

 
Related posts from last year:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012_12_01_archive.html

---

Video review added on January 4, 2013:

Review of the film Orgazmo, the Mormon temple film, and candiates for other films to show inside of Mormon temples

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/01/review-of-film-orgazmo-mormon-temple.html

responses to continued mobot (Mormon) fear of sex

Recently I discovered that Miracle of Forgiveness is available at the mobot distribution centers, in several different languages. In each language section they have the BOM, maybe a bible, but always this POS book.
http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt

Very appropriate responses to this book can be found in the form of one star reviews at Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-of-Forgiveness-ebook/product-reviews/B002JQK1VG/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

Since the Mormon Church apparently considers this book to still be highly relevant, then every despicable thing Spencer Kimball & Boyd Packer have done relative to negative portrayals of human sexuality to the youth & adults in the church is relevant also.

On oral sex, Spencer wants to get into your bedroom:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

On masturbation, Spencer & Boyd both want to have a look:
http://www.zionsbest.com/only.html
http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/masturbation.htm

Also Spencer really is concerned about "petting" and "heavy petting." Oh my, that f-ing old fart must really have been hyperventilating when he wrote his Miracle of Forgiveness book. Necking. Petting. Heavy Petting. Tell us more Spencer, about all the things you dream about at night but also hate yourself for thinking of.

But people say he was such a nice man. My father has said this, as did my mother who worked as a nurse in the COB. But the guy was really not so nice after all, after you read all hateful the trash he put out.

Here's a related blog post:
Subverting normal human sexuality: Mormon Church's principal crime
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/subverting-normal-human-sexuality.html

Anyway, with my new wife seeing the pretty white shirts and the pretty buildings, and with my more recent research into the issue of Kimball's trash book being widely promoted in different languages by the mobot church, I decided to put on youtube a reprise of a song I created some time ago:

We were all just sperm in god's balls, a parody of the song Seeds:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/we-were-all-just-sperm-in-gods-balls.html

And, with Joseph Smith's nutty view of heaven in the form of Kolob, and "Kobol" entering the common consciousness in the form of the much less campy newer Battlestar Galatica version, the following newer song came out of a recent morning shower singing session:

Launch a Mission to Kolob...
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html

Joseph gets to have a 14 year old wife & wives who are still married to other men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith's_wives

Brigham gets a 15 year old & wives still married to other men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young's_wives

But, Spencer & Boyd really were/are obsessed with that you and your children are up to at home, at night, in the privacy of your bedrooms. What's up with that? And since Spencer's piece of trash book is *very* relevant for the Mormon Church, as per their having it readily available in many different languages at their distribution centers, (and reportedly since it's required reading for new missionaries) it's clear that they are still very interested in transmitting this human spirit destroying set of memes onto everyone they can.

What is up with the Mormon Church & sex? Their horn dog founder created a religion whose god, apparently, has to have an orgasm every 4.6 minutes to create 107 billion people in one million years.

107 billion people may have lived on Earth so far:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2097038/Are-really-people-alive-today-lived-Earth.html
...and that number doesn't account for "worlds without end."

Perhaps the Mormon God is rather like a giant space termite:
http://www.termite.com/images/queenking.jpg
...that would be more fitting.

Is your god an alien?
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/kolob_tract.htm

...and yet, now they want to very much control even the mere thought of sex in their members. Why? Because once a person actually allows themselves to be open to the possibility of sex being fun, normal, natural, empowering, and liberating, they can more easily find they have no use for the Mormon God or for the supposedly good feelings you get during Mormon Church meetings or from reading the lies of Joseph in the form of the Mormon scriptures.

The Mormon Church tries to hijack people's basic emotions, and to subvert & control & misinterpret them for their own nefarious ends. Some other religions do this also.

In any case I get much better feelings of validation from the love of my wife & new son than I ever got in mostly boring Mormon Church meetings, and from the occasional good feelings they claimed "proved" their church was correct. There's a price to be paid for pretty white shirts and pretty buildings.

If feelings can be used as a form of validation, then that means the much better feelings I've had since leaving indicates that their lies were incorrect.

Jonathan

Current blog: http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/
Legacy website: http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/one/jonathan.html
Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/chinadreams888

Launch a Mission to Kolob, and blow the place up!

Three videos expressing an interest in launching a mission to Kolob, the Mormon God's homeworld, and blowing the place up:

December 14, 2012:

December 17 version & addendum:

December 18 reprise:

Let's launch a mission to Kolob baby, and blow the place up. Launch a mission to Kolob honey, before it's to late. There's no oral sex on Kolob, and no one named Rex. There's also no masturbation, and no one named Nate. The Mormon God lives on Kolob, with his many wives. The Mormon Jesus is there too... Hostile aliens all. Joseph Smith is there also, with his 14 year old wife & the wives of other men. Brigham Young is there also, with his 15 year old wife & also wives who are still wives of other men. Spencer Kimball, that fucking old fart, is there also, helping everyone know the evils of oral sex, masturbation, petting, and "heavy petting" (OMG WTF LOL). They're all there on Kolob my friend, with the Mormon God. So let's launch a mission to Kolob, before more people's core being is quashed & destroyed.

More info:
Is your god an alien?
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/kolob_tract.htm

More info on Mormonism from a former Mormon Missionary & Mormon Temple Worker:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm

More recent thoughts, observations and rants:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com

The principal crime of Mormonism - subverting normal human sexuality:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/subverting-normal-human-sexuality.html

Kolob homeworld meme set initiated message prohibiting oral sex:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
page two:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

Responses from others on the issue of the Mormon approach to sex:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-of-Forgiveness-ebook/product-reviews/B002JQK1VG/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

So, it's not all about "white shirts" and "family." If you reject having to kiss the ass of their leaders & their hostile alien god, you may well get kicked out of & rejected by your "family." They put their church & their god above family - so that's not real & true family values my friend.

Subverting normal human sexuality: Mormon Church's principal crime

Problems with Mormonism that the never-been-a-Mormon media has no concept of & needs to be educated about:

"The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."

http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
page two:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

The author of the above policy wrote the following book:
http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt

In mobot distribution centers they have, in several prominent languages, the Book of Mormon, maybe the family home evening manual, but always this POS book.

"...Steps to Fornication
Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, pregnancy, and abortions all ugly sins but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Paul wrote as if to modern young people who deceive themselves that their necking and petting are but expressions of love: 'Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves.' (Rom 1:24.) How could the evils of petting be more completely described?"

"Too often, young people dismiss their petting with a shrug of their shoulders as a little indiscretion, while admitting that fornication is a base transgression. Too many of them are shocked, or feign to be, when told that what they have done in the name of petting was in reality fornication. The dividing line is a thin, blurry one, and Paul probably referred to these sins ranging from petting to fornication when he said: 'For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.' (Eph. 5:12.) And the Lord perhaps was referring to this evil when in our own time he was reiterating the Ten Commandments: '... Neither commit adultery, nor kill, nor do anything like unto it.' (D&C 59:6.)
Our young people should know that their partners in sin will not love or respect them if they have freedom in fondling their bodies. Such a practice destroys respect, not only for the other person but for self. It destroys the ultimate respect for virtue. And it ignores the oft-repeated prophetic warning that one should give his or her life rather than to yield to loss of virtue."

"Too many have lost themselves completely in sin through this doorway of necking and petting. The devil knows how to destroy our young girls and boys. He may not be able to tempt a person to murder or to commit adultery immediately, but he knows that if he can get a boy and a girl to sit in the car late enough after the dance, or to park long enough in the dark at the end of the lane, the best boy and the best girl will finally succumb and fall. He knows that all have a limit to their resistance."

"Those who have received the Holy Ghost after baptism certainly know that all bodily contacts of this kind are pernicious and abominable. They recognize too that the God of yesterday, today, and tomorrow continues to demand continence and to require that people come to the marriage altar as virgins, clean and free from sex experience..."

"...Almost like twins,'petting' and especially 'heavy petting' and fornication are alike. Also like twins, the one precedes the other, but most of the same characteristics are there. The same passions are aroused and, with but slight difference, similar bodily contacts are made. And from it are likely to come the same frustrations, sorrows, anguish, and remorse."

"All those who have slipped into the disgraceful and most reprehensible habit of transgressing through petting should immediately change their lives, their habits, and their thought patterns, repent sorely in 'sackcloth and ashes,' and by confession get so far as possible a clearance from the Lord and the leaders of his Church so that a measure of peace may accompany them through their lives. To those who have been properly taught and who have properly appraised the evils and have restrained and protected themselves from these foul acts, God bless them and help them to continue their virginity and cleanness, that they may never have the remorse and anguish which has or will come to their brothers and sisters who have indulged..."

...what a load of hate filled human spirit destroying garbage.

Apt responses found online from your fellow humans:

"Because this book is a crime against humanity and he should have been tried for ever releasing it upon the world. Hundreds of thousands, perhaps a million or more people have suffered terribly as a result of being A) Human and B) manipulated or in some cases forced to read this pile of filth. Save yourself the 8-10 hours it takes to read it cover to cover and go to your nearest Mormon 'priesthood' holder and ask them to punch you in the face several times. It will be less painful."
http://www.amazon.com/review/R18WLDDC75NVFK/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R18WLDDC75NVFK

"I want to burn this book... This is by far the most deplorable book i have ever read. I wanted to burn it so no one else could ever read it, but instead i keep it hidden as a reminder to why i have no desire to ever be a lds, morg bot... My husband was born and raised lds i was seriously considering a full conversion and having our marriage sealed in the temple... That is until i found this book amongst his things..."

"The sin next to murder are you serious!!! 'A woman who has be raped should wish herself dead.' 'A parent should wish their child dead rather than have them commit the sin next to murder'"

"As i woman how has been through a rape I feel it is deplorable that anyone would ever suggest such a heinous thought to someone who is already struggling and dealing with the emotional ans psychological damage that last forever... Shame on you spencer kimball shame on anyone who would ever recommend or even suggest someone read this book..."

"I am human therefor i have sinned... Not one person on this earth Spencer Kimball included is with out sin..."

"I am worthy and i don't need to pay the lds corporation 10% of my gross income for their stamp of approval, nor do i need to enter the waste of money temple and buy their magical underpants..."

"Thank you Spencer Kimball. Had it not been for this horrific book i most likely would have become another lds drone."
from http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-of-Forgiveness-ebook/product-reviews/B002JQK1VG/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

"Destructive fear- and hate-mongering...
In Kimball's book, everybody is evil, including the coffee drinker, but none more so than the homosexual. Kimball finds it regrettable that today's society is more tolerant towards homosexuals than in Old Testament times when homosexuals and other fornicators were stoned to death. No wonder gay mormons are driven to suicide, and not only gay mormons, but all mormons will inevitably fail to live up to Kimball's impossible moral standards (one possible reason people in Utah consume so much antidepressants). This book is guaranteed to cause lots of despair, hopelessnes and crushed self-esteem among many readers. It's just about the worst book you could give to someone who's struggling with any type of personal problem (statements like "one should give his or her life rather than to yield to loss of virtue" could even be interpreted as to encourage suicide, althouh that, too, is a sin as we learn in a later chapter). He also describes 'sins against the Holy Ghost', which are unforgivable, even if repented."

"'The Miracle of Forgiveness' is an example of religious propaganda at its worst. It is designed to keep the flock in line by preventing critical thinking (which is denounced as the sin of rebellion) and demanding obedience to religious authorities (ie the LDS church leaders, including the author); even failure to pay tithes is a sin. The author also spends a lot of time complaining about the declining morals of modern society, where women wear shorts in public and work instead of being housewives and people play golf instead of observing the Sabbath. It's written with a holier-than-thou attitude and the author's contempt and dislike for humanity in general and "sexual deviants" in particular, is evident throughout the whole book. Kimball likes to give examples of people who have come to him seeking help and these meetings inevitably end with him giving them a condescending lecture about their moral failings. I knew the LDS church was strict but I didn't know they had the type of misanthropic, cold-hearted, taliban mentality they must have to promote this fear-and hate-mongering book."

also from amazon.

And another:
"Criminalization of all things sex...
This book almost killed me. I became suicidal because of ordinary masturbation instincts because I believed in this charlatanism.
The author is preoccupied with sex. Actual criminal conduct is given token mention, then the book dives into the deep end of an anti-sexual preoccupation that would make Kinsey turn over in his grave. It equates homosexuality to beastiality, and makes clear that sexual "sins" are next to murder in severity. This book is the source of the infamous lore in Mormonism that they'd rather bury a child than see them lose their purity."
"Thousands of mormon youth and gays have committed suicide because of sheer psychological malpractice like this. I denounce this book in the strongest terms I can. I have no doubt whatsoever that this book has cost lives. Mine was spared by only seconds.
Shame on you who recommend this book to anyone, but especially youth where it does the most damage."

This page,
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-of-Forgiveness-ebook/product-reviews/B002JQK1VG/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0
is a great example of why W-H-Y there are problems with being an adherent Mormon. Read it closely when considering the costs to having pretty white shirts and pretty buildings.

Some have even died as a result of Kimball's toxic dogma:
http://web.archive.org/web/20120701205227/http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml

And yet, horn dogs Joseph & Brigham got to have all the wives they wanted, 14 & 15 year olds, even those who were married to other men:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives

my own related pages:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm
and
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/
and
http://www.youtube.com/user/chinadreams888

and for this topic, here's a relevant video found:

Keep your Jesus off my penis...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHjsaEK4vnw