Showing posts with label interrogation. Show all posts
Showing posts with label interrogation. Show all posts

Monday, October 9, 2017

Mormon Bishops are Child Abusers

Mormon Bishops are Child Abusers



Mormon Bishops routinely interrogate children and adults regarding sexual issues, and especially regarding masturbation.

Are you masturbating?
Are you masturbating?
Are you masturbating?

Mormons, and especially Mormon Bishops, want to know!

This is the key question Mormon Bishops ask children, again, and again, and again. Children as young as 8 through the age of 25 - oh and especially at the Mormon Missionary Training Center (MTC) in Provo, Utah. But even in the regular meeting houses, if you masturbate as an 11-19 year old, you are required to go confess to your Mormon Bishop! After age 19, the Mormon Missionary structure takes over the asking. Then when you come home again after your Mormon mission, they'll still be asking.

Yes it's true that they do, universally, interrogate & grill the boys on this, but there is spill over effect onto the girls (cycle of abusive shame - teaching children to hate their own bodies).

Also, as per a widely distributed book within Mormonism, 'Miracle of Forgiveness' by Mormon Prophet Spencer Kimball, masturbation can easily make you a homosexual! Yes that's right, masturbation can make you a 'gay!' This message was told to me when I was young, and thus the Mormon Church is how I first learned about the existence of homosexuality. Next they taught me that if I masturbated, I could easily become a homosexual.

Suicides have resulted from this rampant widespread child abuse.

One such example, the suicide of Kip Eliason:
http://thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/a-latter-day-tragedy-suicide-over-masturbation/

Also there's a very popular 'Pride' culture in Salt Lake City. I argue the main reason for this is because children who're abused via this cycle-of-shaming scheme, grow up to be reactionary ultra-leftists in response. Thus the Mormon Church is an ultra-leftist generation machine.

Relevant clip from the film The God Makers, regarding the suicide of Kip Eliason.



Longer clip:

https://youtu.be/ljzVkt-I4Co

----------------------
As the answer to the following question appears to be YES:

'Is the Mormon Church still interrogating children and adults about masturbation?'

Thus this page was born.

Some of my former Mormon bishops: Ronald J. Pugmire & Larry Reaveley.

Thursday, October 5, 2017

Is the Mormon Church still interrogating children and adults about masturbation?

Is the Mormon Church still interrogating children and adults about masturbation?

Spencer Kimball & Boyd Packer, past & present prophets / Apostles of God, want into YOUR bedroom and the bedrooms of your children.

Teaching children to hate their own evolved sexual natures as they are coming of age, IS a reactionary ultra-leftist generation machine.


Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7StK16_cPQ


A related exchange from Facebook, quote begins:

I suggest that the way Mormonism deals with sexuality, results in the >exact opposite< of what they're hoping to accomplish.

Recently I encountered Jordan B. Peterson (JBP). I appreciate his approach, honestly, and general pragmatic social conservatism.

Below is a copy of an open letter I shared with him.

I am, now, fully on board with the pro-family pro-life pro-1.2-billion-year-evolved-marriage pro-reproduction pro-children project, but only after observing much of what the abusively permissive ultra left has to offer.

'Choose to be a non-outlier if you can'

I know there's a lot of non-Mormon Christians who're part of recovery from leftist crap. On the Mormon / Christian front there's a relevant old film called The Godmakers which mentions a boy named Kip who killed himself as a result of the Mormon approach.

Relevant clip from the film The God Makers:


------ quote of letter shared with JBP

You've had some questions regarding Mormonism of late. Here's more info.

In response to your general work & for where you touch upon human sexual nature topics:

FYI Mormonism has: a.) frequent required interrogations re masturbation for adolescents & adults, b.) claims from their past prophets that masturbation can lead to homosexuality, c.) a 1982 letter from their leadership stating that oral sex is prohibited. These types of cultural religious requirements tend to generate reactionary ultra-leftists in response, a fact which otherwise defeats the top-level general good intentions of religions like Mormonism.

The founders of Mormonism had underage wives & wives who were still legally married to other men. I'm an ex-Mormon and it's taken me a very long time to recover, first from ultra-right Mormonism, and next from reactionary ultra-leftism.

Now I'm center-right socially & economically. Also I transitioned from being a morbidly obese virgin living in my parent's basement, to a somewhat less heavy regular-house-dwelling father of three with a happy family.

I appreciate your general advocacy for social conservatism, but this is an FYI note that some ultra-right religions do actively generate reactionary ultra-leftists. Interrogating youngsters regarding masturbation teaches them to hate their own evolved sexual natures.

I've listened to your stated stances on these topics and I generally agree with you. For sure our energies in these regards should be directed toward an inherently-reproductive partner. But when adolescents and adults are 'pushed too far,' results can happen which are the exact and precise opposite of what should generally be hoped & aimed for.

The ultra-left is no panacea utopian 'answer' to the ultra-right. Instead I suggest the answers lie with pragmatic honesty regarding human nature & what prompts humans to live happy lives.

References:
...as on a parody website, but the quoted letter is quite real.

2. Mormon-Prophet issued book stating that masturbation can lead to homosexuality, a book given to many youngsters w/in Mormonism: https://archive.org/stream/MiracleOfForgiveness/MoF_djvu.txt

3. My own exit journal, on what is now a legacy website which reflects the time when I was still a reactionary ultra-leftist:

4. My more recent blog which documents my transition from ultra-left to basically center right economically & socially. http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/

5. Wives of the founders of Mormonism:



6. Hundreds of stories of others who've left Mormonism:


7. Anti-masturbation pamphlet given to many adolescents in Mormonism:


8. Another set of instructions given to young boys on the topic of masturbation:


E.g.: "...yell STOP to those thoughts as loudly as you can in your mind."

In-person required interrogations of impressionable youth conducted by Mormon Bishops, interrogations starting as early as age 10.

Telling adolescents that masturbation can make one gay. For myself this was my first introduction to homosexuality - the Mormon Church telling me that if I masturbated I could become gay.

Telling adolescents to yell "STOP" in their minds when they have sexual thoughts.

Intrusive child & adult abuse.

For sure relations with real flesh & blood people of the opposite sex is preferable, but the above illustrations are frankly outright child abuse, and like I say ultra-leftist reactionaries are absolutely generated in response to the above highly hypocritical scheme, hypocritical in light of the documented actions of the founders of Mormonism.

In Salt Lake City there's very active & well attended 'Gay Pride' events, the headquarters of Mormonism. Two sides of the same coin. FYI.

-----------------

[I received a response from an LDS person at BYU (Brigham Young Universitiy) who scoffed at my account. My response to them:]

-----------------

The LDS Church, is IMO a gay person generator. Yes the approach of the Mormon Church drives people into the hands of the denialist left. On topic I suggest.

When 10 year olds are interrogated on the issue referenced, there's costs.

Yes I know that non-Mormon Christian churches want people to recover from being gay. That's great. Doug Mainwaring's path, is super & I support it.

But, as I note, the non-Mormon Christians have some rather strong concerns regarding the Mormon approach - as noted in the God Maker's film which documents the suicide of Kip Eliason.

I support the general top level social conservative goals of churches like Mormonism. But I'm suggesting they're shooting themselves in the foot by taking an approach which does drive people into the hands of the reactionary denialist left.

I suppose there's some value in culture for making note of how people's lives are actually lived. When I protested Mormonism, holding up Bruce Bagemihl's book 'Biological Exuberance,' I was a reactionary noob. Got my picture in the paper for the privilege. Now I see Bagemihl's approach as being myopic.

What's 'selected for' with humans is inherent reproduction. What makes humans the most happy, is reproduction. Life. Having children. Nihilism is a dead end.

Yes the Mormon Church is tempering their approach. The book widely handed out to church youth, Miracle of Forgiveness, which taught that masturbation would make you gay, is no longer in LDS Church distribution centers. Thank goodness. And many people, including many Mormons reportedly, are glad it's no longer there. But I suspect the interrogations of 10-14 year olds is still taking place. These kids first exposure to homosexuality, is via these interviews & teachings.

Cruising along as a normal kid, and then you encounter this crap? There are costs. The death of Kip Eliason. And yes, I would suggest, a hugely popular 'Pride' culture going on in Salt Lake. Reactions to going too far.

So I agree there's darn high value to the promotion of inherent reproduction. For god if you wish. For Jesus, that's fine. But also to honor 1.2 billion years of our own evolution as sexual animals - 1.2 billion years being the amount of time sex has existed on this planet.

-----------------

[The BYU man told me that 'anecdotal accounts' mean nothing, but also that the anecdotal accounts of 'millions' of Mormons should be highly respected:]

-----------------

First hand observations & cogent reflections. Gay uncle, dead of AIDS due to the glory hole culture of San Fran, leaving his straight family with no father. He grew up in Manti, Utah. From ultra-right to ultra-left, then dead.

Gay nephew, sucked into gay culture after having really an overly harsh Mormon father and a passive Mormon mother.

Myself, a reactionary ultra-leftist social justice warrior for several years until I woke up & decided to stop being a nihilist.

First hand lived experiences as a Mormon. Seeing other's experiences.

I'm 100% on board with 5-word-top-level summaries of what Mormons advocate for socially, but I only joined that ship after many years of an Alice in Wonderstand style journey through the dystopian denialist left.

Not to offend anyone, but I see religion as a fully natural phenomenon. Evolved traits couched within religious contexts. The Christian tradition is rather more valuable than others, because it allowed for a Reformation & Enlightenment.

If the Mormon Church is still interrogating 11 year olds about masturbation, such acts have costs I suggest. What are the costs other than the occasional suicide? 'Pride' I suggest. Stonewall reactionaries who see it as their key mission to defeat, the otherwise mostly-good & valuable family values that come out of 50 E. N. Temple (or 47 E. S. Temple).

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not taking things out of the air. First hand observations & reflections. If you don't agree that's ok...

--------------- [The BYU man scoffed and dismissed more. My further response:]

Can you confirm or deny the interrogations referenced are still taking place? Widespread, or not so much?

Not to quell the Lord's Path to Truth or anything. Life does kind of suck, for the canary who has to actually enter the coal mine.

Does the squeaky wheel get the grease or the hammer within the gilded cage? I've had many hammers swung at me over the years, from the right and the left (mostly from the left these days, but I'll take all comers).

The elephant in the room.

The de facto cultural link, between 47 E. S. Temple and 255 E. 400 S.

Regarding anecdotal accounts:

The experiences of millions? Wouldn't that be just a higher number of easily-dismissible anecdotal accounts?

I don't claim anecdotal accounts should be automatically dismissed.

I'm just saying that on one hand you discount my experiences, the lived experiences of others, the suicide of the young man Kip referenced, while at the same time claiming that the anecdotal experiences of others should be rather highly valued.

'Pride' can just grow & grow & grow & grow in Salt Lake, and the guys in the Church Admin building can go on their course pretty much ambivalent to what I'm talking about I suppose. But frankly, I think there >is< a creep of SJWism (social justice warriorism) within Church HQ.

Kimball's horrible book as referenced, gone from the Church Distribution centers. Ding Dong The Witch is Dead - the song comes to mind.

On the creeping-SJW front: At the Utah Museum of Fine Arts, where LDS Church owned property is on display, they now have signs which state that "UMFA acknowledges that gender is not binary."

Art department managers now get to negate 1.2 billion years of history & our own evolved nature?

I have notified the Mormon Church about the signage and the risks such signs pose to women (the signs also say that men can use the women's restrooms if they want). Women of course, real women, have zero choice in this matter.

What's the response of the Mormon Church to this situation, after being notified? Crickets.

I know they teach evolution and biology at BYU, as I've been there first hand (yet another one of those pesky anecdotal accounts).

I'm aware that this forum is intended to serve as a support structure apparently for people who'd like to recover from denialist leftism and who'd like to live lives of inherent reproduction.

As a man with children, I don't want to see my children sucked into the denialist cult of abusively-permissive-leftism. The leftist cult which wants to put a gold star on the foreheads of those who're the very best, at not having children.

The people at the helm of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, have apparently chosen to shelve Kimball's horrible book. That Is Progress.

More Christians. And even More Mormons. That's ok. But on the other hand, child abuse is child abuse. And the types of interrogations mentioned, IMO turn some of the victims into ultra-leftist reactionaries.

Why would I bother to even have this discussion? What's >my< agenda on this front? I want people to be happy, and I want the truth to be out there. The truth is the ultra-left is not a panacea answer to the ultra-right.

If you visit Pride, and Stonewall, and the Unitarian Universalist Churches, and Atheist of Utah parties (A of U is now run by Stonewall SJWs - and they booted me when I told them I liked Duck Dynasty) - if you were to visit these places you'd find cultural refugees who're basically 'in recovery' from the Kimball-Packer approach to things.

If people can find happiness via being Mormon, that's ok mostly, but children should not be interrogated for masturbation when they're coming of age, interrogated by strangers. And the costs for doing such are many.

----------------------------------------

'Questions for Mormon Missionaries - God, Sex, and honesty | 16 questions for Mormon Missionaries'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/03/questions-for-mormon-missionaries-god.html


As the answer to the question I post appears to be yes, after checking, the following new page was created:
'Mormon Bishops are Child Abusers'
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2017/10/mormon-bishops-are-child-abusers.html


Friday, March 21, 2014

Mormon Bishops Are Child Abusers | Brain washed pretentious pompous claptrap, from a bunch of retrograde old farts: Thomas S. Monson, Spencer W. Kimball, Boyd Packer

1. Mormon Bishops Are Child Abusers

Oh my fucking god, and Jesus titty fucking Christ, here's a Mormon Bishop describing first hand how he intends to abuse children within his sphere of influence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP4siTJiMFI
.


time index references as per original poster of the video:
Published on Jul 30, 2013

Recorded Aug 26th, 2012 from a special combined LDS meeting in North Ogden, UT. The topic is supposed to have come from a regional meeting, although it may have been inspired by my meeting with the bishop the week before when I protested the bishop talking about masturbation with my 8 year old for his baptismal interview.

The meeting was so important to them, that they took role of who showed up that Sunday, so that they could go visit the families in their homes who weren't present that day and give the presentation to them as well. 11:55 to 12:40 is where he talks how he explains to 8 year olds about their privates, but says that it may not be enough. He's concerned about how little kids don't know what chastity really is. 25:00-26:15 Questions for potential missionaries: same gender attraction, petting, masturbation, pornography. 26:35 Six month minimum waiting period after any of those sins are committed. 47:25-47:55 Apology to offended people, but excuses himself because of his "mantle."
...end of quote

--------------------------------------


2. Brain washed pretentious pompous claptrap, from a bunch of retrograde old farts:
Thomas S. Monson, Spencer W. Kimball, Boyd Packer


Examples of the abusive drivel from which the Mormon Bishop referenced above derives his fear-based diatribe against being human:

"We call upon members to renew their commitment to live the Lord’s standard of moral conduct. Parents should teach their children the sacred nature of procreative powers and instill in them a desire to be chaste in thought and deed. A correct understanding of the divinely appointed roles of men and women will fortify all against sinful practices. Our only real safety, physically and spiritually, lies in keeping the Lord’s commandments."

From https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/eternal-marriage-student-manual/morality-and-modesty/office-of-the-first-presidency?lang=eng

Jar Jar Binks, becomes a mormon leader:

"weesa call upon members to renew thesa commitment to live da lord’s standard of moral conduct.parents should teach thesa children da sacr nature of procreative powers and instill in them a desire to be chasta in thought and de.a correct understand of da divine appoint roles of men and women ganna fortify all against sinful practices.weesa on real safety,physical and spiritual,lies in keep da lord’s commandments."

Swedish Chef:

"Ve-a cell upun members tu renoo zeeur cummeetment tu leefe-a zee Lurd’s stunderd ooff murel cundooct. Um de hur de hur de hur. Perents shuoold teech zeeur cheeldree zee secred netoore-a ooff prucreeteefe-a pooers und insteell in zeem a desure-a tu be-a cheste-a in thuooght und deed. Bork bork bork! A currect understundeeng ooff zee deefinely eppueented rules ooff mee und vumee veell furteeffy ell egeeenst seenffool precteeces. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Oooor oonly reel seffety, physeecelly und spureetooelly, leees in keepeeng zee Lurd’s cummundments. Um gesh dee bork, bork!"

--------------------------

Also from the King of retrograde a-holes, Spencer W. Kimball, we have:

"Most youth come into contact early with masturbation. Many would-be authorities declare that it is natural and acceptable, and frequently young men I interview cite these advocates to justify their practice of it. To this we must respond that the world's norms in many areas: drinking, smoking, and sex experience generally, to mention only a few - depart increasingly from God's law. The Church has a different, higher norm."

"Thus prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice."

"While we should not regard this weakness as the heinous sin which some other sexual practices are, it is of itself bad enough to require sincere repentance. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation--practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality."

From: https://web.archive.org/web/20121024074759/http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt

Jar Jar Binks version:

"most youth comein into contact ear with masturbation.many would-be authorities declare da isa natural and acceptable,and frequent young men missa interview cita these advocates to justify thesa practice of it.to dis weesa must respond da da biiig empire s norms in many areas:drink,smok,and sex experience general,to mention onda few - depart increasing from biiig one s law.da church has a different,higher norm."

"thus prophets ancient and today condemn masturbation.it induces feelings of guilt and shame.isa detrimental to spirituality.it indicates slavery toda flesh,no da mastery of it and da growth toward godhood which is da object of weesa mortal life.weesa modern prophet has indicat da no young man should be call onda mission who is no free from dis practice."

"while weesa should no regard dis weakness as da heinous sin which some other sexual practices is,isa of itself bombad enough to require sincere repentance.what is more,it too often leads to grievous sin,even to da sin against nature,homosexuality.for,done in privata,it evolves often into mutual masturbation--practic with another person of da same sex and thence into total homosexuality."

Swedish Chef:

"Must yuoot cume-a intu cuntect ierly veet mestoorbeshun. Muny vuoold-be-a oothureeties declere-a thet it is netoorel und eccepteble-a, und freqooently yuoong mee I interfeeoo ceete-a zeese-a edfucetes tu joosteeffy zeeur precteece-a ooff it. Um de hur de hur de hur. Tu thees ve-a moost respund thet zee vurld's nurms in muny erees: dreenking, smukeeng, und sex ixpereeence-a generelly, tu menshun oonly a foo - depert increeseengly frum Gud's lev. Zee Choorch hes a deefffferent, heegher nurm."

"Thoos pruphets unceeently und tudey cundemn mestoorbeshun. It indooces feeleengs ooff gooeelt und sheme-a. It is detreementel tu spureetooelity. Bork bork bork! It indeecetes slefery tu zee flesh, nut thet mestery ooff it und zee groot tooerd gudhuud vheech is zee oobject ooff oooor murtel leeffe-a. Oooor mudern pruphet hes indeeceted thet nu yuoong mun shuoold be-a celled oon a meessiun vhu is nut free-a frum thees precteece-a."

"Vheele-a ve-a shuoold nut regerd thees veekness es zee heeenuoos seen vheech sume-a oozeer sexooel precteeces ere-a, it is ooff itselff bed inuoogh tu reqooure-a seencere-a repentunce-a. Vhet is mure-a, it tuu oofftee leeds tu greeefuoos seen, ifee tu thet seen egeeenst netoore-a, humusexooeleety. Bork bork bork! Fur, dune-a in preefete-a, it ifulfes oofftee intu mootooel mestoorbeshun--precteeced veet unuzeer persun ooff zee seme-a sex und zeence-a intu tutel humusexooeleety. Bork bork bork!"

Pig Latin:

"Ostmay youthay omecay intoyay ontactcay earlyyay ithway asturbationmay. Anymay ould-beway authoritiesyay eclareday atthay ityay isyay aturalnay andyay acceptableyay, andyay equentlyfray youngay enmay Iyay interviewyay itecay esethay advocatesyay otay ustifyjay eirthay acticepray ofyay ityay. Otay isthay eway ustmay espondray atthay ethay orld'sway ormsnay inyay anymay areasyay: inkingdray, okingsmay, andyay exsay experienceyay enerallygay, otay entionmay onlyyay ayay ewfay - epartday increasinglyyay omfray Od'sgay awlay. Ethay Urchchay ashay ayay ifferentday, igherhay ormnay."

"Usthay ophetspray ancientlyyay andyay odaytay ondemncay asturbationmay. Ityay inducesyay eelingsfay ofyay uiltgay andyay ameshay. Ityay isyay etrimentalday otay iritualityspay. Ityay indicatesyay averyslay otay ethay eshflay, otnay atthay asterymay ofyay ityay andyay ethay owthgray owardtay odhoodgay ichwhay isyay ethay objectyay ofyay ouryay ortalmay ifelay. Ouryay odernmay ophetpray ashay indicatedyay atthay onay youngay anmay ouldshay ebay alledcay onyay ayay issionmay owhay isyay otnay eefray omfray isthay acticepray."

"Ilewhay eway ouldshay otnay egardray isthay eaknessway asyay ethay einoushay insay ichwhay omesay otheryay exualsay acticespray areyay, ityay isyay ofyay itselfyay adbay enoughyay otay equireray inceresay epentanceray. Atwhay isyay oremay, ityay ootay oftenyay eadslay otay ievousgray insay, evenyay otay atthay insay againstyay aturenay, omosexualityhay. Orfay, oneday inyay ivatepray, ityay evolvesyay oftenyay intoyay utualmay asturbation--practicedmay ithway anotheryay ersonpay ofyay ethay amesay exsay andyay encethay intoyay otaltay omosexualityhay."

Valley Girl:

"Most youth come into contact early with masturbation. Many would-be authorities declare that it is natural and acceptable, like, and frequently young men I interview cite these advocates to justify their practice of it. To this we must respond that thuh world's norms in many areas: drinkin', man, smokin', like, wow, and sex experience generally, man, to mention only a few - depart increasin'ly from God's law. The Church has a different, man, higher norm."

"Thus prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelin's of guilt and shame. It is ya know, like, detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to thuh flesh, like, not that mastery of it and thuh growth toward godhood which is like wow! the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young nerd should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice."

"While we should not regard this weakness as thuh heinous sin which some other sexual practices are, oh, baby, it is ya know, like, of itself mean enough to require sincere repentance. What is more, man, it too often leads to grievous sin, like, even to that sin against nature, man, homosexuality. For, like, wow, done in private, mostly, it evolves often into mutual masturbation--practiced with another person of thuh same sex and thence into total homosexuality."

I think my favorite versions are Swedish Chef.

------------------------

There's many reasons to extract oneself from such insantiy.

Here's more I just found:
Apostasy A to Z - Or, why I don't go to church any more. by Chris Tolworthy
http://www.exmormon.org.uk/tol_arch/atozelph/

Down toward the bottom of the last page there's a defunct link. But here's a copy:
Who Are The Lamanites?
http://web.archive.org/web/20060313004519/http://home.comcast.net/~zarahemla/Lamanites/Lamanites_Index.html

Attention, Spencer Kimball: Masturbation does not lead to homosexuality. But your constant obsessions about it may.

Attention, Boyd Packer: Keep your hands off of my little factory, and out of the bedrooms of all children & adults in your cult.

Attention, Thomas Monson & cohorts: You're a bunch of f-ing old farts. What about Joseph Smith sleeping with a 14 year old, and with the wives of other men? What about Brigham Young sleeping with a 15 year old and with the wives of other men?

No More: End Mormons' Sexually Invasive Interviews of Children
https://www.facebook.com/pages/No-More-End-Mormons-Sexually-Invasive-Interviews-of-Children/503622079732706

Teaching children to fear their own bodies. That is what the Mormon Church teaches. Teaching eight, and eleven, and twelve year old children that masturbation may lead to homosexuality. Crazy. Stupid. Abusive. This must be stopped!

Related images found on the web: