Mormon Bishops routinely interrogate children and adults regarding sexual issues, and especially regarding masturbation.
Mormons, and especially Mormon Bishops, want to know!
This is the key question Mormon Bishops ask children, again, and again, and again. Children as young as 8 through the age of 25 - oh and especially at the Mormon Missionary Training Center (MTC) in Provo, Utah. But even in the regular meeting houses, if you masturbate as an 11-19 year old, you are required to go confess to your Mormon Bishop! After age 19, the Mormon Missionary structure takes over the asking. Then when you come home again after your Mormon mission, they'll still be asking.
Yes it's true that they do, universally, interrogate & grill the boys on this, but there is spill over effect onto the girls (cycle of abusive shame - teaching children to hate their own bodies).
Also, as per a widely distributed book within Mormonism, 'Miracle of Forgiveness' by Mormon Prophet Spencer Kimball, masturbation can easily make you a homosexual! Yes that's right, masturbation can make you a 'gay!' This message was told to me when I was young, and thus the Mormon Church is how I first learned about the existence of homosexuality. Next they taught me that if I masturbated, I could easily become a homosexual.
Suicides have resulted from this rampant widespread child abuse.
Also there's a very popular 'Pride' culture in Salt Lake City. I argue the main reason for this is because children who're abused via this cycle-of-shaming scheme, grow up to be reactionary ultra-leftists in response. Thus the Mormon Church is an ultra-leftist generation machine.
Relevant clip from the film The God Makers, regarding the suicide of Kip Eliason.
I suggest that the way Mormonism deals with sexuality, results in the >exact opposite< of what they're hoping to accomplish.
Recently I encountered Jordan B. Peterson (JBP). I appreciate his approach, honestly, and general pragmatic social conservatism.
Below is a copy of an open letter I shared with him.
I am, now, fully on board with the pro-family pro-life pro-1.2-billion-year-evolved-marriage pro-reproduction pro-children project, but only after observing much of what the abusively permissive ultra left has to offer.
I know there's a lot of non-Mormon Christians who're part of recovery from leftist crap. On the Mormon / Christian front there's a relevant old film called The Godmakers which mentions a boy named Kip who killed himself as a result of the Mormon approach.
You've had some questions regarding Mormonism of late. Here's more info.
In response to your general work & for where you touch upon human sexual nature topics:
FYI Mormonism has: a.) frequent required interrogations re masturbation for adolescents & adults, b.) claims from their past prophets that masturbation can lead to homosexuality, c.) a 1982 letter from their leadership stating that oral sex is prohibited. These types of cultural religious requirements tend to generate reactionary ultra-leftists in response, a fact which otherwise defeats the top-level general good intentions of religions like Mormonism.
The founders of Mormonism had underage wives & wives who were still legally married to other men. I'm an ex-Mormon and it's taken me a very long time to recover, first from ultra-right Mormonism, and next from reactionary ultra-leftism.
Now I'm center-right socially & economically. Also I transitioned from being a morbidly obese virgin living in my parent's basement, to a somewhat less heavy regular-house-dwelling father of three with a happy family.
I appreciate your general advocacy for social conservatism, but this is an FYI note that some ultra-right religions do actively generate reactionary ultra-leftists. Interrogating youngsters regarding masturbation teaches them to hate their own evolved sexual natures.
I've listened to your stated stances on these topics and I generally agree with you. For sure our energies in these regards should be directed toward an inherently-reproductive partner. But when adolescents and adults are 'pushed too far,' results can happen which are the exact and precise opposite of what should generally be hoped & aimed for.
The ultra-left is no panacea utopian 'answer' to the ultra-right. Instead I suggest the answers lie with pragmatic honesty regarding human nature & what prompts humans to live happy lives.
4. My more recent blog which documents my transition from ultra-left to basically center right economically & socially. http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/
E.g.: "...yell STOP to those thoughts as loudly as you can in your mind."
In-person required interrogations of impressionable youth conducted by Mormon Bishops, interrogations starting as early as age 10.
Telling adolescents that masturbation can make one gay. For myself this was my first introduction to homosexuality - the Mormon Church telling me that if I masturbated I could become gay.
Telling adolescents to yell "STOP" in their minds when they have sexual thoughts.
Intrusive child & adult abuse.
For sure relations with real flesh & blood people of the opposite sex is preferable, but the above illustrations are frankly outright child abuse, and like I say ultra-leftist reactionaries are absolutely generated in response to the above highly hypocritical scheme, hypocritical in light of the documented actions of the founders of Mormonism.
In Salt Lake City there's very active & well attended 'Gay Pride' events, the headquarters of Mormonism. Two sides of the same coin. FYI.
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[I received a response from an LDS person at BYU (Brigham Young Universitiy) who scoffed at my account. My response to them:]
When 10 year olds are interrogated on the issue referenced, there's costs.
Yes I know that non-Mormon Christian churches want people to recover from being gay. That's great. Doug Mainwaring's path, is super & I support it.
But, as I note, the non-Mormon Christians have some rather strong concerns regarding the Mormon approach - as noted in the God Maker's film which documents the suicide of Kip Eliason.
I support the general top level social conservative goals of churches like Mormonism. But I'm suggesting they're shooting themselves in the foot by taking an approach which does drive people into the hands of the reactionary denialist left.
What's 'selected for' with humans is inherent reproduction. What makes humans the most happy, is reproduction. Life. Having children. Nihilism is a dead end.
Yes the Mormon Church is tempering their approach. The book widely handed out to church youth, Miracle of Forgiveness, which taught that masturbation would make you gay, is no longer in LDS Church distribution centers. Thank goodness. And many people, including many Mormons reportedly, are glad it's no longer there. But I suspect the interrogations of 10-14 year olds is still taking place. These kids first exposure to homosexuality, is via these interviews & teachings.
Cruising along as a normal kid, and then you encounter this crap? There are costs. The death of Kip Eliason. And yes, I would suggest, a hugely popular 'Pride' culture going on in Salt Lake. Reactions to going too far.
So I agree there's darn high value to the promotion of inherent reproduction. For god if you wish. For Jesus, that's fine. But also to honor 1.2 billion years of our own evolution as sexual animals - 1.2 billion years being the amount of time sex has existed on this planet.
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[The BYU man told me that 'anecdotal accounts' mean nothing, but also that the anecdotal accounts of 'millions' of Mormons should be highly respected:]
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First hand observations & cogent reflections. Gay uncle, dead of AIDS due to the glory hole culture of San Fran, leaving his straight family with no father. He grew up in Manti, Utah. From ultra-right to ultra-left, then dead.
Gay nephew, sucked into gay culture after having really an overly harsh Mormon father and a passive Mormon mother.
Myself, a reactionary ultra-leftist social justice warrior for several years until I woke up & decided to stop being a nihilist.
First hand lived experiences as a Mormon. Seeing other's experiences.
I'm 100% on board with 5-word-top-level summaries of what Mormons advocate for socially, but I only joined that ship after many years of an Alice in Wonderstand style journey through the dystopian denialist left.
Not to offend anyone, but I see religion as a fully natural phenomenon. Evolved traits couched within religious contexts. The Christian tradition is rather more valuable than others, because it allowed for a Reformation & Enlightenment.
If the Mormon Church is still interrogating 11 year olds about masturbation, such acts have costs I suggest. What are the costs other than the occasional suicide? 'Pride' I suggest. Stonewall reactionaries who see it as their key mission to defeat, the otherwise mostly-good & valuable family values that come out of 50 E. N. Temple (or 47 E. S. Temple).
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not taking things out of the air. First hand observations & reflections. If you don't agree that's ok...
--------------- [The BYU man scoffed and dismissed more. My further response:]
Can you confirm or deny the interrogations referenced are still taking place? Widespread, or not so much?
Not to quell the Lord's Path to Truth or anything. Life does kind of suck, for the canary who has to actually enter the coal mine.
Does the squeaky wheel get the grease or the hammer within the gilded cage? I've had many hammers swung at me over the years, from the right and the left (mostly from the left these days, but I'll take all comers).
The elephant in the room.
The de facto cultural link, between 47 E. S. Temple and 255 E. 400 S.
Regarding anecdotal accounts:
The experiences of millions? Wouldn't that be just a higher number of easily-dismissible anecdotal accounts?
I don't claim anecdotal accounts should be automatically dismissed.
I'm just saying that on one hand you discount my experiences, the lived experiences of others, the suicide of the young man Kip referenced, while at the same time claiming that the anecdotal experiences of others should be rather highly valued.
'Pride' can just grow & grow & grow & grow in Salt Lake, and the guys in the Church Admin building can go on their course pretty much ambivalent to what I'm talking about I suppose. But frankly, I think there >is< a creep of SJWism (social justice warriorism) within Church HQ.
Kimball's horrible book as referenced, gone from the Church Distribution centers. Ding Dong The Witch is Dead - the song comes to mind.
On the creeping-SJW front: At the Utah Museum of Fine Arts, where LDS Church owned property is on display, they now have signs which state that "UMFA acknowledges that gender is not binary."
Art department managers now get to negate 1.2 billion years of history & our own evolved nature?
I have notified the Mormon Church about the signage and the risks such signs pose to women (the signs also say that men can use the women's restrooms if they want). Women of course, real women, have zero choice in this matter.
What's the response of the Mormon Church to this situation, after being notified? Crickets.
I know they teach evolution and biology at BYU, as I've been there first hand (yet another one of those pesky anecdotal accounts).
I'm aware that this forum is intended to serve as a support structure apparently for people who'd like to recover from denialist leftism and who'd like to live lives of inherent reproduction.
As a man with children, I don't want to see my children sucked into the denialist cult of abusively-permissive-leftism. The leftist cult which wants to put a gold star on the foreheads of those who're the very best, at not having children.
The people at the helm of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, have apparently chosen to shelve Kimball's horrible book. That Is Progress.
More Christians. And even More Mormons. That's ok. But on the other hand, child abuse is child abuse. And the types of interrogations mentioned, IMO turn some of the victims into ultra-leftist reactionaries.
Why would I bother to even have this discussion? What's >my< agenda on this front? I want people to be happy, and I want the truth to be out there. The truth is the ultra-left is not a panacea answer to the ultra-right.
If you visit Pride, and Stonewall, and the Unitarian Universalist Churches, and Atheist of Utah parties (A of U is now run by Stonewall SJWs - and they booted me when I told them I liked Duck Dynasty) - if you were to visit these places you'd find cultural refugees who're basically 'in recovery' from the Kimball-Packer approach to things.
If people can find happiness via being Mormon, that's ok mostly, but children should not be interrogated for masturbation when they're coming of age, interrogated by strangers. And the costs for doing such are many.
All sides are right (& wrong), liberals, moderates, & conservatives.
All sides are right - all sides have valid points. And all sides are wrong also.
Attention atheist groups: I don't want to be in your religions. I left one religion already. I don't wish to join yours. I don't wish to kiss the ass of your de facto priests. I don't wish to join your chump chorus of ultra-liberalism.
It's been a long hard road. I've examined what goes on with "the left," and I've found it to be just as abusive as what goes on with "the right."
Key background:
1. Spending 26 years in the Mormon Church.
2. Went on a Mormon mission to Alaska.
3. Going to Rick College for a year (now BYU Idaho).
4. Being a temple worker in more than one Mormon temple.
5. Going to BYU in Provo, Utah for a year.
6. Leaving the Mormon Church.
7. Living in Texas.
8. Living in Oregon, checking out the wild Alice-in-Wonderland-style scene there & the fucking hippies.
9. Marrying a woman from China, where they've had pretty much zero exposure to Mormonism, Catholicism, & most other churches, and examining what their views are.
10. Hearing from people like Steven Pinker with his book The Blank Slate. Also from Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens.
11. Daniel Dennett talking about how religion is a natural phenomenon.
12. Making note of how I had one uncle who grew up in Manti, Utah (ultra conservative Mormon small town). This uncle went to San Francisco to "let it all hang out," to apparently rebel against his ultra-conservative upbringing. He ended up dying of AIDS as a supposedly gay man, leaving his straight family with no father. WTF. A victim of BOTH Mormonism, and the gay freaks of San Francisco. Forced to jump from one side directly to the other. Abused by both!
13. Making note of the drunk bum aunt with no kids I knew as a child, the one who'd often phone my father while drunk. No kids of her own. A dead end largely meaningless life.
14. Making note of my gay nephew who leads an incredibly petty, shallow, and misguided life as an angle reader, and as a guy who readily accepts convicted pedophiles into his network of friends - I saw this first hand. Also making note of my many experiences going out with this nephew to gay bars & parties, and observing first hand the narcissistic messed-up people who tend to show up to such events (friends of my nephew). Truman Capote types. Shallow, sorry, messed up, narcissistic, people.
15. And yet (!) also making note of the service oriented gay people who help us & other people, and whose life work is centered around helping others. Also making note of the life work of people like Stephen Fry & Oscar Wilde.
16. Making note of how BOTH ultra conservatism and ultra liberalism are abusive to the progress of humanity.
Before viability (the closer to conception & the further away from viability), the more "choice" there is that can be reasonably allowed.
In the case of the average crack whore pregnancy, or rape, or incest: before viability, the "choice" is still there to help prevent the birth. But, once viability is reached, the point of "choice" has fully & completely passed.
On the whole gay thing:
It's true that a gay marriage is not the same as straight marriage. Gay sex is not the same as straight sex.
Straight sex & straight marriage is inherently more valuable, to humanity, and to the individual, and to human flourishing!
Gay sex is not as inherently valuable as straight sex. Gay sex is inherently a dead end.
Whatever the biological underpinnings are for being gay, because of the nature of how sex works in humans (& other animals), unless you work to avoid it you may end up having a dead end stunted life.
I was a liberal chump about this issue in the past. Now, as per taking a step back and examining what I observed first hand both with my gay nephew & gay uncle, I've changed by views.
And yet: There are service oriented gay people who spend their lives helping others. That's great! And I value the life work of people like Stephen Fry & Oscar Wilde!
It's true that gay people shouldn't be discriminated against regarding apartments or jobs! They should be able to have civil unions.
But on the other hand, when we talk about things like adoptions, or having children around, a straight kid growing up in a gay household will not have his or her straightness valued as much - by default. The abusive narcissistic petty dead end shit that goes on in gay culture could well easily mess up any otherwise-normal straight kid growing up around gay culture. So the right does have a point about this!
A certain level of concern regarding homosexuality is good, but on the other hand, the ultra-right goes way to far with their level of concern.
For example, in Mormonism they tell their children that masturbation can lead to homosexuality. Such a claim is child abuse. And of course the stance of Uganda on the issue is abusive. So the right goes way to far in their condemnation.
We shouldn't be as harsh as the right on the issue, nor as open as the left.
Children may NEED a mommy & a daddy, to be healthy, happy, well rounded, and thrive.
So like it or not, both sides are right, to a point, and with appropriate caveats.
On environmentalism, tree hugging, and overpopulation:
How are both sides right?
We do need to work to preserve & protect the garden. Yes that's quite true. Humans DO contribute to global warming. Also true. BUT, on the other hand, population control IS an abusive response!
Science & technology are the answers! Nothing else is! NOT forced population control on a personal or country level! That is an abusive response!
There's no such thing as overpopulation in first world countries - this is quite true. And humans DO come first above other animals and plants.
Liberal ideology, prompting you to be childless, may leave you a zero on the great mandala.
From what I've seen: Liberals hate children, normal families, and so on. STFU Parents is the tip of the iceburg. It seems to me that: liberals hate having children, and the normal family structure.
Your average college age kid will go to a liberal college or university & come away convinced that he or she should probably not have kids of his or her own because of concern over the environment. Abusive. Wrong headed. Brainwashing. Just as much braining washing by the left as what goes on with the right.
For the relativist liberal their ideal "family" is a childless one - because then the environment and the Earth is protected - supposedly. Stupid. Abusive. Such wrong headed evil ideology will lead them, and everyone sucked in by such ideology, to be pretty much a zero in the long term. Win or loose now you must choose now. Where will you be the tapestry of life?
To fully accept the equality of gay marriage the left must first assume that having children is not a valuable thing.
It's a good thing that we want to have kids - for many reasons. Not just because we're horny. Children are our future. And the liberal death cult is rather quite similar to the Shakers. The childfree life, and the homosexual lifestyle, is de facto celibacy.
Simply replace the word "god" with "14.5 billion years of evolution by natural selection." I know it's hard, but try to see though the Bible-centered language - through to our incredibly deep history as a species. DOES HAVING NO CHILDREN really honor your own personal billion-year history?
Being childfree is sad, petty, and ultimately a dead end. A death cult, by any other name, is still a death cult.
Leftist relativist brain washing. Leftist dogma that will stunt your life!
No, having a dog or cat around is not the same as a having human child! Not the same in the fucking least. Abused by liberalism, just as much as you may have been abused by conservatism!
Go to the First Unitarian Church of Salt Lake City. There you will find a congregation of grey haried liberals who don't really value having children, and normal families. Cultural relativists being abused by their own anti-children anti-family leftist ideology.
De facto religions of atheism & humanism are abusive.
Catholicism is also of course abusive when it comes to child raping priests. But, both Mormonism & Catholicism DO have valid points when it comes to abortion & birth control. Yes, you ARE abusing yourself if you exclude the possibility of children from your life!
It's a damn fucking hard truth to realize that very valuable & good elements of positive human morality can be fully rooted within otherwise abusive religion.
HOW can we realize this?
By examining what non-Catholic non-Mormon human cultures do and think!
Here's a hard question for the religion of Judaism:
Is your own promotion of separation from other groups, as part of your religion, in any way responsible for the past expression of fully natural human out-group morality, natural human out-group morality which was expressed in the past?
Forced genital rape of your own children.
Teaching your children that they are better than others.
Such actions naturally caused other groups of humans to more readily express natural human out-group morality in your case. Like it or not.
Examining what happened with Naziism and the Holocaust is rather like staring human out-group morality directly in the face.
The Nazis were fully human, humans expressing out-group morality.
And when your religion promotes separation between your group & others, you could well more easily fall victim to sociopathic nut jobs like Hitler who were able to effectively take advantage of this fully natural readily available negative side of built-in human morality.
Group think. Mob mentality. Survival morality. Nationalism. Provincialism. And even the Old Testament is completely filled with expressions of advocacy for out-group morality.
I don't accept your religion, left or right. Rather I want to be an advocate for science, helpful progress which promotes widespread happiness, well being & health, and survival.
Truth & honestly are required for healthy progress. That means staring our own history in the face and being willing to accept what we see. And to then try to work through what we see clearly.
Mormon Bishops DO abuse children in their care when they teach children that masturbation is evil & may lead to homosexaulity.
And yet, homosexual couples do PERHAPS abuse children by raising them in forcibly-relativist dogmatically politically correct households where straightness is not valued, nor honored, nor supported, nor promoted.
So BOTH sides are being abusive, ok?
The answer to conservatism is not liberalism. Instead it's honest science, observation, and tying into ALL of what it means to be human (including being willing to shame & blame & judge where appropriate & useful - !!!). A VERY VERY fucking hard thing for an ex-conservative-religionist to accept! Damn hard.
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Thank goodness the Internet is expanding our in-group morality.
There is hope though. In all religions people are becoming less abusive. It just takes time.
And, let me say there's aspects of ALL cultures & religions which I personally value.
I'm PRO-human. Pro-happy-human. Pro-true-and-honest-naturalism, in as much as being for those natural parts of us which can help us be happy. But, I'm also pro-honesty. Falling into naturalistic fallacies is also a consideration.
We have to be willing to look ourselves in the mirror, and to help promote what looks good, and remove the pimples which don't. That's all.
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Did Jewish Circumcision help lead to the Holocaust? | Both sides are right: Liberals & Conservatives
Social conservatism. Social liberalism. Politics. Etc.
OMG, I think Spencer Kimball & Mark E. Petersen's heads must have just exploded, after seeing what those Japanese people do to celibate spring & hopeful fertility.
Much more interesting than Jesus getting a boner. Jesus is a fucking bore. Lame. Pretentious. Pious. Angry under a thin mask of false pretense of being nice. Nice on the surface, but an asshole when you get to know him. An excellent model & mirror for most Mormons. Thanks Jesus, for BYU, the Church Office Building, and all your little nazi followers.
So, let's forget that and instead consider proper fertility festivals of other religions.
Oh my, now they had some good fertility dances on that island... And they toasted the guy who wanted to impose his pious iron fisted prudishness onto everyone. Sounds good to me.
Oh my fucking god, and Jesus titty fucking Christ, here's a Mormon
Bishop describing first hand how he intends to abuse children within his
sphere of influence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP4siTJiMFI
.
Recorded Aug 26th, 2012 from a
special combined LDS meeting in North Ogden, UT. The topic is supposed
to have come from a regional meeting, although it may have been inspired
by my meeting with the bishop the week before when I protested the
bishop talking about masturbation with my 8 year old for his baptismal
interview.
The meeting was so important to them, that they took role
of who showed up that Sunday, so that they could go visit the families
in their homes who weren't present that day and give the presentation to
them as well. 11:55 to 12:40
is where he talks how he explains to 8 year olds about their privates,
but says that it may not be enough. He's concerned about how little kids
don't know what chastity really is. 25:00-26:15 Questions for potential missionaries: same gender attraction, petting, masturbation, pornography. 26:35 Six month minimum waiting period after any of those sins are committed. 47:25-47:55 Apology to offended people, but excuses himself because of his "mantle."
...end of quote
-------------------------------------- 2. Brain washed pretentious pompous claptrap, from a bunch of retrograde
old farts: Thomas S. Monson, Spencer W. Kimball, Boyd Packer
Examples of the abusive drivel from which the Mormon Bishop referenced above derives his fear-based diatribe against being human:
"We call upon members to renew their commitment to live the Lord’s standard of moral conduct. Parents should teach their children the sacred nature of procreative powers and instill in them a desire to be chaste in thought and deed. A correct understanding of the divinely appointed roles of men and women will fortify all against sinful practices. Our only real safety, physically and spiritually, lies in keeping the Lord’s commandments."
"weesa call upon members to renew thesa commitment to live da lord’s standard of moral conduct.parents should teach thesa children da sacr nature of procreative powers and instill in them a desire to be chasta in thought and de.a correct understand of da divine appoint roles of men and women ganna fortify all against sinful practices.weesa on real safety,physical and spiritual,lies in keep da lord’s commandments."
Swedish Chef:
"Ve-a cell upun members tu renoo zeeur cummeetment tu leefe-a zee Lurd’s stunderd ooff murel cundooct. Um de hur de hur de hur. Perents shuoold teech zeeur cheeldree zee secred netoore-a ooff prucreeteefe-a pooers und insteell in zeem a desure-a tu be-a cheste-a in thuooght und deed. Bork bork bork! A currect understundeeng ooff zee deefinely eppueented rules ooff mee und vumee veell furteeffy ell egeeenst seenffool precteeces. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Oooor oonly reel seffety, physeecelly und spureetooelly, leees in keepeeng zee Lurd’s cummundments. Um gesh dee bork, bork!"
"Most youth come into contact early with masturbation. Many would-be authorities declare that it is natural and acceptable, and frequently young men I interview cite these advocates to justify their practice of it. To this we must respond that the world's norms in many areas: drinking, smoking, and sex experience generally, to mention only a few - depart increasingly from God's law. The Church has a different, higher norm."
"Thus prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice."
"While we should not regard this weakness as the heinous sin which some other sexual practices are, it is of itself bad enough to require sincere repentance. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation--practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality."
"most youth comein into contact ear with masturbation.many would-be authorities declare da isa natural and acceptable,and frequent young men missa interview cita these advocates to justify thesa practice of it.to dis weesa must respond da da biiig empire s norms in many areas:drink,smok,and sex experience general,to mention onda few - depart increasing from biiig one s law.da church has a different,higher norm."
"thus prophets ancient and today condemn masturbation.it induces feelings of guilt and shame.isa detrimental to spirituality.it indicates slavery toda flesh,no da mastery of it and da growth toward godhood which is da object of weesa mortal life.weesa modern prophet has indicat da no young man should be call onda mission who is no free from dis practice."
"while weesa should no regard dis weakness as da heinous sin which some other sexual practices is,isa of itself bombad enough to require sincere repentance.what is more,it too often leads to grievous sin,even to da sin against nature,homosexuality.for,done in privata,it evolves often into mutual masturbation--practic with another person of da same sex and thence into total homosexuality."
Swedish Chef:
"Must yuoot cume-a intu cuntect ierly veet mestoorbeshun. Muny vuoold-be-a oothureeties declere-a thet it is netoorel und eccepteble-a, und freqooently yuoong mee I interfeeoo ceete-a zeese-a edfucetes tu joosteeffy zeeur precteece-a ooff it. Um de hur de hur de hur. Tu thees ve-a moost respund thet zee vurld's nurms in muny erees: dreenking, smukeeng, und sex ixpereeence-a generelly, tu menshun oonly a foo - depert increeseengly frum Gud's lev. Zee Choorch hes a deefffferent, heegher nurm."
"Thoos pruphets unceeently und tudey cundemn mestoorbeshun. It indooces feeleengs ooff gooeelt und sheme-a. It is detreementel tu spureetooelity. Bork bork bork! It indeecetes slefery tu zee flesh, nut thet mestery ooff it und zee groot tooerd gudhuud vheech is zee oobject ooff oooor murtel leeffe-a. Oooor mudern pruphet hes indeeceted thet nu yuoong mun shuoold be-a celled oon a meessiun vhu is nut free-a frum thees precteece-a."
"Vheele-a ve-a shuoold nut regerd thees veekness es zee heeenuoos seen vheech sume-a oozeer sexooel precteeces ere-a, it is ooff itselff bed inuoogh tu reqooure-a seencere-a repentunce-a. Vhet is mure-a, it tuu oofftee leeds tu greeefuoos seen, ifee tu thet seen egeeenst netoore-a, humusexooeleety. Bork bork bork! Fur, dune-a in preefete-a, it ifulfes oofftee intu mootooel mestoorbeshun--precteeced veet unuzeer persun ooff zee seme-a sex und zeence-a intu tutel humusexooeleety. Bork bork bork!"
"Most youth come into contact early with masturbation. Many would-be authorities declare that it is natural and acceptable, like, and frequently young men I interview cite these advocates to justify their practice of it. To this we must respond that thuh world's norms in many areas: drinkin', man, smokin', like, wow, and sex experience generally, man, to mention only a few - depart increasin'ly from God's law. The Church has a different, man, higher norm."
"Thus prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelin's of guilt and shame. It is ya know, like, detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to thuh flesh, like, not that mastery of it and thuh growth toward godhood which is like wow! the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young nerd should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice."
"While we should not regard this weakness as thuh heinous sin which some other sexual practices are, oh, baby, it is ya know, like, of itself mean enough to require sincere repentance. What is more, man, it too often leads to grievous sin, like, even to that sin against nature, man, homosexuality. For, like, wow, done in private, mostly, it evolves often into mutual masturbation--practiced with another person of thuh same sex and thence into total homosexuality."
I think my favorite versions are Swedish Chef.
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There's many reasons to extract oneself from such insantiy.
Teaching children to fear their own bodies. That is what the Mormon Church teaches. Teaching eight, and eleven, and twelve year old children that masturbation may lead to homosexuality. Crazy. Stupid. Abusive. This must be stopped!
