January 23, 2019 commentary on why Hilton Hotels Suck.
Hilton Tampa Airport Westshore & Hilton Hotels generally suck.
When you're staying at a Hilton hotel, and when the onsite general manager physically threatens you, Hilton itself can offer you no immediate route for assistance. And they can do is "make note of your concerns and pass them along."
Hilton, operates as an unaccountable shell company. Reportedly Hilton doesn't actually own any hotels themselves. Instead all they do is license out their name.
Regarding the Hilton Tampa Airport Westshore and general manager Sebastian Hansen.
Original booking included the phrase "breakfast included." Upon check in at the hotel on 1-14-2019, a lady by the name of Hannah treated me like a liar – by tone, facial expression, response, and action. She stated that breakfast was not included with my room rate. Hannah told me that breakfast wasn’t included in the rate plan for my room. She said she’d have to call her manager to see if I could have breakfast or not, and that she’d call me back.
Because of the dismissive and non-trusting responses I received from hotel employee Hannah I next went up to my room to try & resolve the issue myself. Upon arriving in my room I phoned to my travel agent. They then phoned Hilton reservations, who verified that breakfast was included in my booking. This process took 15 minutes of my time on the phone with my travel agent.
Hilton reservations told my travel agent that they would send me an email confirmation proving the inclusion of breakfast, a confirmation I could then show to the front desk. The email never arrived. So next I phoned to Hilton reservations myself. They then phoned the hotel.
After 23 minutes on the phone with Hilton reservations speaking with the hotel, finally the reservations agent came on the line and said that the hotel had finally agreed to allow me to have breakfast.
Next, upon returning to the hotel, I phoned down to the front desk to complain about all the time spent on this issue.
A front desk lady offered to let me speak with her supervisor, who turned out to be the same Hannah to checked me in. I complained to Hannah about all the time spent. Hannah frequently cut me off as I was speaking to her over the phone. She quickly and immediately rebutted my complaint points. Her tone was dismissive and disrespectful. She routinely spoke over the top of me. Hannah, front desk agent for this hotel, was combative and inept.
About $320 for one night at this hotel, and while on a business trip, I have to spend about 45 minutes of my time trying to convince the hotel that breakfast is in fact included with my reservation.
And next, this Hannah becomes combative over the phone, talks over the top of me, and immediately seeks to rebut my complaint points.
On the morning of 1-15-2019 I went down to the front desk to inquire whether I needed a paper voucher for breakfast or not. At the front desk was an older man standing there. I didn’t know who the older man was.
The older man asked me how my stay was going. I responded not well. A female staff person behind the counter asked what the problems were. I then explained to her the experiences I had with staff member Hannah.
The lady behind the counter, began herself to immediately try & rebut my granular complaint points. When I said they should have called Hilton reservations while I was waiting at the desk instead of sending me away in an uncertain state, her response was a flippant dismissal and more immediate rebuttals.
When I said that the main point was that they should have dealt with the issue within two minutes of my standing at the desk while checking in via calling to Hilton reservations right then, instead of sending me away uncertain which then resulted in 45 minutes of my time over the phone, she flippantly responded that I should have given them more time to the fix the problem. Again a flippant response.
Because of the flippant way the lady was responding, I next stated that she was responding to me as if we were in kindergarten.
Now next, came the virtual hammer & thump from the older man standing outside the desk who I did not know the identity of, who was apparently watching my interaction with the behind the desk staff.
The man said: “I don’t appreciate the way you’re talking to my colleague there.”
The man looked strangely upset, and also very angry. His eyes were glazing, and he was shaking.
I however, wasn’t shaking. I wasn’t yelling. I wasn’t using expletives. But this man, looked upset.
I asked to the speak with the manager and he said he was the manager.
The man, also next took the hostile actions of choosing to next stand directly in front of me, looked me directly in the eyes, and the man purposefully stood closer to me – standing essentially right in my face. This physically threatening stance among men is generally regarded as absolutely a physical threat, as a prelude to physical violence. This man was angry and he wanted to clearly exercise coercive control over me. This man had clearly entered an unhinged state.
Even while this man this did, I tried to talk to the man in a reasonable manner, but the man became more and more angry. Again I did not yell nor I did not use expletives while speaking with the man. I just explained that his actions & the actions of his hotel were inappropriate. But the man would have none of it.
Next, the man said that if I didn’t like his hotel, I could find another property to stay at.
I told the man this was an inappropriate response.
Next the man demanded that I move to another part of the room to talk to him.
I refused and this also made the man more upset.
The man next stated that he didn’t care what I had to say. He said that I had a choice of either leaving or going to breakfast. One, or the other, period.
Next, I took out my phone and started typing the name of the man from his name tag. Sebastian Hansen. As I was typing the man next said “do you have a business card? I know you’re probably here on business. What company do you work for.”
Prior to my bothering to type the man’s name in he never once asked who I worked for.
I told the man that he was trying to dox me. He acted confused at the term, as doxing is an online term for someone trying to expose the personal information of someone online as a form of punishment & retaliation.
It was clear that the man, that is General Manager Sebastian Hansen, wanted to retaliate against me. Again the Sebastian Hansen never once asked me who I worked for, until I took the action of recording his name onto the notes section of my phone.
Next, I asked him for the phone number for his supervisor. Manager Hansen refused. He said I could call Hilton customer service but that he would not give me the phone number for the person who was his direct manager.
I left the area and went back to my room.
In my room I first spent a lot of time trying to reach Hilton customer service. They refused to tell me the name of the franchise company which actually owns the hotel I was staying at. All they would do, in spite of the horrid and threatening way I was treated by the general manager noted, is “make note of my complaint and pass along my comments” and that’s it.
Next, I started calling around to other Hilton properties in the Tampa area. When I called each property I asked to speak with the general manager of the properties. I found one property which was willing to help me find the name of the franchise company which actually owns the Hilton Tampa Airport Westshore.
On 1-16-2019 I finally reached the franchise company manager who is over Sebastian Hansen, and man who can be reached at 617-756-seven zero two six. It’s worth clearly noting that neither Hilton customer service, nor Mr. Hansen himself, would give me this info. It was only my own investigative work via calling other local Hilton properties was I able to find this info.
The franchise company manager said that I could stay at the hotel. But frankly, the severe damage was already done. Mr. Sebastian Hansen, General Manager for the Hilton Tampa Airport Westshore had already set up an incredibly hostile environment for my stay.
Even after the franchise owner called to Mr. Hansen, Mr. Hansen never once came to me and apologized for his outrageously uncouth, obtuse, hostile, and threatening actions toward me as a guest. Never, once.
In my first hand experience, observation, and opinion, the Hilton Tampa Airport Westshore and its manager Sebastian Hansen are prone to treating people in an incredibly hostile manner, if you complain too much. No matter how rude and inept their staff are, they will absolutely be prone to treating you and yours poorly, if you complain too much, and “give them too much lip.”
Southern Hospitality, not.
And Hilton corporate, to include the Hilton executive escalations department, cannot and will not help you WHILE YOU’RE ACTUALLY AT A HILTON HOTEL, and under threat from an unhinged manager who doesn’t know how to handle customer service complaints, nor how to train his own staff properly.
This hotel, the Hilton Tampa Airport Westshore, has uniquely verbally combative staff. And a manager who is combative & retaliative as well. Plus the unhinged uncouth old fart Sebastian Hansen will try and dox you for complaining, that is he’ll try & find out who your employer is so that he can complain about you to them. Also if you stand your ground, Sebastian Hansen will get right in your face, and he’ll also physically threaten you in my view and first hand observation.
And all, over breakfast, and inept staff who haven’t been properly trained on how to know when a customer has booked breakfast, and regarding staff who also are verbally combative when you complain about their ineptness and lack of training.
Avoid this property, and all Hilton hotels, at all costs. That is my recommendation to you.
Today, I am grabbing life by the pussy. And I want my golden shower.
It's worth noting how & why these stories came to light (pussy grabbing, and golden showers):
DEFLECTIONS from the raping ways of Bill Clinton. Smoke, designed to defect from where the true problem lies.
"...they let you do it..." Hollywood starlets do use their bodies as a means of getting ahead. Trump was commenting on that state of affairs in what he thought was an off the record joking conversation.
I voted for Obama twice. I was a chump. My memories of Hitch and other still present people helped me wake up from that (Obama appreciation) stupid dream as well.
Thank the good parts of human nature, and the great legacy of the Enlightenment, that Trump won.
As for the Enlightenment values which founded America, Obama & the Clintons are no friends to those values.
So I'm all for grabbing life, by the generally consenting & happy pussy. And golden showers are fun for some. But these frolicking romps are a.) not crimes, and b.) they're nothing compared to the real crimes of Bill.
Don't let Democrat smoke distract from where the real crimes lie. And Bill's raping ways are just the tip of the Democrat/Clinton-crime pile (eg: pay to play racketeering, having an illegal home server w/classified info, and on and on).
In my view Dalia Mogahed is an abusive Puritan and cult member. Advocates for the hijab / niqab / burqa are basically Puritans. Liberals just hate Christian-originated Puritanism, but they love Puritanism which emanates from any flavor of Islam (eg: the widespread worldwide Saudi-funded & CAIR supported version), or when it comes via any idea that counters or casts doubt on any aspect of the dominant leftie paradigm.
Video interview of Dalia Mogahed on the Daily Show:
Response to the following point made by Dalia Mogahed:
---quote begins
What a Hijab does is it basically privatizes a woman's sexuality.
So what are we saying when we say that by taking away or privatizing a woman's sexuality, we're oppressing her? What is that saying about the source of a woman's power [in the media]?
---end of quote
My response:
13.8 billion years of evolution by natural selection has not "selected for" a privatization of female human sexuality.
Maryam Namazie's response to the hijab, a most excellent response!:
World hijab day - as celebrated by Maryam Namazie, the way the day should be celebrated (ie: without a hijab):
Why is Puritanism ok when it's expressed by a Muslim woman who's in a hijab, but not ok when it's expressed by a conservative Christian?
Puritianism is abusive in it's own right, whether that Puritanism is expressed by someone like Dalia Mogahed, or whether it's expressed by past Mormon prophet Spencer Kimball or by John Harvey Kellogg.
Maajid Nawaz, a near lone truly-liberal Muslim voice, on the hijab:
Quote: "...Even when adopted through individual choice, it is the religious-conservative assumption, this modesty theology, that women who do not wear headscarves are somehow sinful, less modest and not pious, that we liberals must critique. For at the root, it is this same attitude that is invoked in honor killings, and heinous acid attacks..."
The hijab is abusive, abusive for exactly the same reasons why Puritanism in general is abusive: It/they attempts to warp human sexuality into something it is not by default and by (evolutionary) design: hidden.
Because their are Islam-run countries which force women to hijab, and because mosques worldwide force women to wear it, it's abusive. It's also abusive because it separates men & women into an inherently abusive and unnatural state & relationship status.
Women should be showing their hair & necks, in public, to men & to other women. Period. And if you see value in "privatizing" the normal natural healthy human sexuality expressed via women's hair, necks, and faces, you are an abuser. And if you're a cult member who believes there's value in such covering, you are an abuser.
Tawfik Hamid talking about how Puritanical Islam fucks up the brains of young Muslim men: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxfo11A7XuA Why do desert tribes hate sexual system activation? Clothes on humans may well be natural. Otherwise abusive body mutilations humans engage in within various "aboriginal" "native" tribes (eg: male & female genital cutting aka circumcision) may also be "natural." Religions are natural. But not everything that's natural is good nor do all natural things make humans happy generally nor cause them to thrive.
In any case puritanism is abusive regardless of it's source, whether that source is Islam, Islamophiles, lefties who love Islam & the hijab, your local Saudi-funded mosque which forces women to be segregated and to hijab, or Mormonism, or Catholicism, or etc.
Somewhere between letting it all hang out and hanging people for doing so is where humans are happiest and thrive the most. But the hijab is more on the hanging-people side of things than any other.
My views on the matter of porn have evolved some. From Pompeii onward there's many examples showing that humans have enjoyed watching portrayals of human sexuality. The ideal expression of sexuality is within marriage. Before marriage, masturbation should be used, but prudently so that you still have enough sexual energy for dating.
Yes, regular porn is crass and stupid, and even abusive. And the industry is a sink hole of abuse. Harlotry & whoring, on film.
Yes it's useful to see how sex works.
Yes, it can be fun. But, don't have too much fun. Seek out people in real life.
Balance.
Prudence.
What would be the solution? Well, I would now lean toward keeping kids away from the stuff completely of course. Completely. And adult should should be, well, as f-ing minimal as possible, with a very strong preference being given toward real in person interactions.
Dating and marriage in other words. Marriage. And yes marriage with children, and that's the point of sex: children!
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Ultra-right religious bullshit, repackaged via TED(x) morons:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZDHeKDieAc Human interest in watching open expressions of human sexuality isn't fucking the new tobacco. And neither is the darker side of porn 1.0, where people crassly sell a very poor and inaccurate portrayal of human sexuality. Porn 2.0 is a step up, where people organically share more honest expressions of intimate activities. Sites such as xtube.com have such expressions, but sadly sites with some porn 2.0 content are fully funded via crass & abusive porn 1.0 content. Porn 3.0 would be where humans can share full & honest expressions of human sexuality without the abusive harlottry of porn 1.0 being around at all. Also Porn 3.0 would mention how sex results in babies! Perish the thought! Can the two concepts be merged? Porn 3.0 would leave the whores in the dust, but still would share honest expressions of human sexuality. Now, back to Jack Fischer: This "nofap" business of ascribing nobility to abstinence from masturbation: That is abuse - the very quintessence of it. My own experience with masturbation in the Mormon Church: Mortal Mormonism: How Mormons are taught to do right, then betrayed and shamed by their upper leaders. By Jonathan , a former: temple worker, full time missionary, Sunday School president, priesthood holder, and member of the Mormon Church. A personal journal & explanation. http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/Mortal_Mormonism.htm or http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/Mortal-Mormonism-November-26-2005.pdf In Mormonism they teach young children from at least the age of eleven that masturbation is evil. They also readily share a terrible book called Miracle of Forgiveness by past Mormon prophet Spencer Kimball about the evils of masturbation, how masturbation can destroy your life, may turn you into a homosexual, and is a sin which must be confessed to a Mormon Bishop and is a sin which makes it so you cannot visit the Mormon temples. Related previous posts: Jesus wants me for an asshole: the song of LDS missionaries, bishops, and prophets http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/03/jesus-wants-me-for-asshole-song-of-lds.html lds.org : discover the perversity or Mormonism http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html Advice for TBMs on porn: Why society accepts pornography but not littering? http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/advise-for-tbms-on-porn-why-society.html To the Mormon wife whose husband is 'addicted to porn:' 12 *real* steps that will help! http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/07/to-mormon-wife-whos-husband-is-addicted.html --------------- Now it's true that there's "dangers" with uneducated exposure to crass harlotry. But on the other hand we can go too far with the shaming. So take with a huge grain of salt advise from fuckers like this guy:
Why be wary of advise from people like this guy? Because there's a very easy abusive slope and connection between ultra-right type abusive sexual shaming, and the supposedly secular repackaging of these ideas. The "secular" supposedly "scientific" repackaging of ultra-right religious shaming regarding human sexuality - is by it's very nature inherently problematic.
As for all this, and especially regarding shaming for masturbation: You CAN and you WILL teach children to hate their own bodies! You CAN and you WILL teach children and adults VERY unhealthy ideas regarding masturbation and the value of self-touching and self-exploration. You CAN and you WILL teach adults they should be AFRAID of having too much sexual energy present in their lives, and in their relationships! Teaching people to be afraid and fearful of the SEXUAL SYSTEMS built into them by billions of years evolution by natural selection: THAT IS ABUSIVE! So there is ZERO nobility in abstaining from masturbation.
There is value in having enough sexual energy and motivation to go on a date, or to love your wife more often. That's true! But the easy-ready slope to teaching people to hate their own bodies just because we're inherently sexual, that is something we need to be very careful about doing. So you abstained from masturbation for six months?
Also you are cheating yourself by doing such a moronic thing!
What a moron you are - you "nofap" fool! Secular repackaging of ultra-right religious shame is really just lipstick on an otherwise abusive pig.
Sorry to see that the TED / TEDx effort has been hijacked by all this. Rich snobs can be dumbshits too.Joycelyn Elders on masturbation:
"...Masturbation, practiced consciously or unconsciously, cultivates in us a humble elegance -- an awareness that we are part of a larger natural system, the passions and rhythms of which live on in us. Sexuality is part of creation, part of our common inheritance, and it reminds us that we are neither inherently better nor worse than our sisters and brothers. Far from evil, masturbation just may render heavenly contentment in those who dare..." http://web.archive.org/web/20041019084748/http://www.uno.edu/~asoble/pages/elders.htm And remember that Bill Clinton fired her for stating this type of thing. Clinton Fires Surgeon General Over New Flap http://articles.latimes.com/1994-12-10/news/mn-7305_1_surgeon-general ...while at the same time Clinton was having oral sex in the oval office. A good response from Hitchens: No One Left to Lie To: The Triangulations of William Jefferson Clinton http://www.amazon.com/One-Left-Lie-Triangulations-Jefferson/dp/1455522996 Bill Clinton, Womanizer and Adulterer In Chief, fired a surgeon general who advocates for the value of masturbation. Past Mormon Prophet Spencer Kimball tells married couples they should not engage in oral sex, and that masturbation is a great evil. Oral sex: http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml page two: http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml Masturbation: http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/masturbation.htm Mormon leader Boyd Packer comes out with an incredibly abusive anti-masturbation pamphlet which is shared very widely with all Mormon boys. Text in pamphlet: http://www.lds-mormon.com/only.shtml Evangelical Christian fuckers buy into the same abusive bullshit. And then fucking TEDx allows repackagers of ultra-right religious shame in a supposedly "secular" form. Thanks TEDx & TED, and go to hell. -------------- Keep masturbating!
Share your masturbation experiences with your partner!
Help your partner start masturbating! Even be so bold as to search for porn 2.0 on the internet (real people engage in real sex, not whores showing a false view - hard to find, but may you can find it). Use that you find to help to expand your repertoire with your real life partner! Your brain isn't being hijacked, no more than breathing hijacks your body. Sex is a key part of who we are - inseparable. That's why people who teach us to feel bad for being sexual animals are evil, even sexual repackagers of such abusive shame. Yes there's some value in limited amounts of shame if a given activity leads to a dead end. But medium or long term abstinence from masturbation is an inherent abuse. Religions like Mormonism & Evangelical Christianity DO hijack human sexuality, for their own nefarious ends. They subvert normal natural humanity for their own evil ends. And "nofap" is a supposedly secular apology for this subversion. Suicide in Mormonism from anti-masturbation bull, as in the The Godmakers documentary:
On Facebook I found a post by a current Mormon who lives in Oregon. Below I've drafted her questions & my responses. The text next to the Q for question items is her text. And my responses are next to the A for answers.
---
Howdy.
Your profile doesn't look like a one-off troll type account, and so I'm going to respond in more detail:
Q. Why is it so important for non LDS people to tear down the LDS religion?
A. Normally when people act in this regard it's for reasons they feel are good & valuable.
There is a substantial difference between the Evangelical protestors outside of the Great & Spacious Building & Temple Square during Mo. Conference, and why we wish to "tear down the LDS religion."
I also don't put much stock in people who're unhappy with Mormonism because the Mormon Jesus is different from the Baptist or Protestant or Catholic Jesuses. I could care less about such differences.
However there are many valuable, good, reasonable, valid, cogent, evidence-based, experience-based, fact-based reasons we can give as to why we express concerns, and why we use the tonalities we use as we express our concerns.
Do you REALLY want to know the answer, or are you just claiming there CAN BE NO answer which contradicts the validity of Mormonism? If your approach is the latter, then there's not much use in proceeding further. However if you really want to know the answer, here's where to find out more:
A. Abusive controlling brain washing iron fisted destructive religions should be for no one, ideally.
Q. should remain a personal choice.
A. Children cannot choose. Most children are sucked into the religion of their parents. They don't have the ability to choose. Even adults can be sucked in though.
"On March 2, 1982, Kip Eliason, age 16, distraught and filled with self-hate over his inability to stop masturbating, committed suicide..."
Good job there, Mrs. Mormon. Good job, Spencer Kimball, Boyd Packer, and parents like you (presumably). You helped Kip stop playing with his "little factory" such that he felt it necessary to kill himself.
Yes, they couldn't keep their Jesus off my penis. But, there's many other abuses that happen.
Abuses of power. Telling members they cannot question the leaders, and if they do they'll be kicked out. Being kicked out may also be turned out onto the street from your family. Complete exclusion from your own family. And even for more "nice" Mormons it will still mean exclusion from temple marriage ceremonies & other things.
PART-Member family. PART, part, part, part, member family. Which "part" is the good part and which part is the evil part? Which part is the good wing, and which part is the damaged wing that one would be better off cutting off? Member. Non-member. Apostate. Enemy of the Church. And so on.
These are ALL expressions of OUT GROUP morality. Not nice. Not good. Yes fully natural. But best worth discouraging where possible.
Thank goodness for the Internet for increasing all the scope of all of our in-group morality. The 'net is hurting Mormonism & other expressions of destructive out-group morality - and that's a good thing.
Q. If you are an inactive member due to some wrong you think you suffered then that is also your choice.
A. When a church leader acts as as an instrument of abuse (which they do by default), is that their choice?
When Joseph Smith slept with a 14 year old & with the wives of other men, was it his choice? Or is it only an even-choice when someone decides they don't like the abuse? A choice that can be easily discounted?
Yes, people use their brains to make decisions. To get away from the abusers, the cult, the brain washing, the control, and to be more free. And that's a good thing.
Q. It doesn't make the religion wrong
A. Yes it does. What else would? History, or revisionist-history? Facts, or just faith-promoting-pseudo-facts? The real life experiences of people, or just those interpreted in a way to never criticize the Mormon Church or it's leaders?
Q. It just makes it wrong for you as an individual.
A. No, not everything is equal. Not everything is relative. Not all churches are of equal value. Not all churches help and/or hurt their followers in the same way.
Q. I am an active member and devout in my beliefs
A. Which is exactly why you're saying what you're saying. Meme set defense mechanisms. Amazing, but very sad. Mormon Brain Software. Yes, I had similar software running in my brain, and I'm quite familiar with how it works. The Church is always right, everything else be damned. Joseph the charismatic charlatan has shown you the way.
Q. It was the right choice for me and my children
A. You are actively abusing your children by allowing them to remain within Mormonism.
Q. and we are happy.
A. Happy in the gilded cage?
Happy in the black & white world of Pleasantville, or the color version? Happy in the dream world of all-encompassing all-encircling Mormonism, or in the real world of reality? Is ignorance bliss? It can be for a time. But in the long term being forcibly ignorant keeps a person's brain & soul in a type of prison.
A. We know it isn't. 8 year olds at fast & testimony meeting, and their brain washed parents, know it is.
Q. No one really knows if there is an afterlife.
A. There isn't.
Q. My chosen religion has made me a better person
A. You don't sound like a better person so far.
Q. and has given me a standard in which to live my life.
A. Your standard for living should not come from old farts who want to get your money & keep you down. Humans have built-in morality, instilled by evolution by natural selection, and by the "neck-top" apps given by culture.
A. The peace that comes from ignorance. The peace that comes from ignoring the pain of others. The peace the comes from putting your head in the sand. The peace that comes from letting your children be grilled about masturbation, and putting your children's genitals into the hands of fucking old abusive farts. The peace that comes from forcibly excluding others. The peace that comes from being a cult follower.
Q. Just because you have chosen not to believe doesn't mean the religion is wrong,
A. Are your beliefs falsifiable? If not your brain might be in a box. You need to let it out. Science shows us the way: Criticism & skepticism in the first instance. And then later truth & fact finding after cogent theory development, testing, peer review, and so on. But being willing to trash the ideas of your fellows, in good faith, all in an attempt to find out where the actual truth lies. Are you doing that now? No. Yes your religion is wrong.
Q. or that Joseph Smith (my ancestor) was a bad man.
A. OMG. Were I still a Mormon, I would now be in awe of you.
The progeny of JS has spoken, and is here before us. If you were a man you might be a G.A. today. But because you don't have a penis you're pretty much excluded from any real leadership roles. Damn. If you have some male children maybe they've got a chance.
Does a bad man sleep with a 14 year old and with the wives of other men?
A. I don't really know why you keep saying choice. Choice this. Choice that.
You don't seem to understand the subtleties or realities of how the human brain works. A brain can be sucked in and held down. When a brain is in Mormonism it engages in meme-set defense & maintenance activities. There's a lot less choice in this process.
While I do believe & maintain we have free will, I can see where Sam Harris is coming from:
In any case we have more free will that a petunia or a carrot. Our neural networks are incredibly complex computers which has far more decision-making power than other animals. But we are animals, and built-in traits & proclivities have far more of an influence than many would like to admit.
Humans can be sucked into cults. They are sucked into cults. Children are sucked into the religions of their parents. If a child's parents believe in an abusive religion, then they will probably grow up and become an abuser themselves - unless they come to their senses as they become more psychologically adult, or if they're exposed to enough evidence (personal or otherwise) which finally dislodges them from the abusive-religion meme set.
Q. The ones who feel damaged and destroyed can go their own way and figure out what is best for them.
A. What's best for us is to do exactly what we're doing now.
Trying to help educate people like you about the problems with the cult you're in. Your brain & body have been hijacked, as have the brains & bodies of your children.
Recently I discovered that Miracle of Forgiveness is available at the mobot distribution centers, in several different languages. In each language section they have the BOM, maybe a bible, but always this POS book. http://www.lds.org/braille/The Miracle of Forgiveness.txt
Since the Mormon Church apparently considers this book to still be highly relevant, then every despicable thing Spencer Kimball & Boyd Packer have done relative to negative portrayals of human sexuality to the youth & adults in the church is relevant also.
Also Spencer really is concerned about "petting" and "heavy petting." Oh my, that f-ing old fart must really have been hyperventilating when he wrote his Miracle of Forgiveness book. Necking. Petting. Heavy Petting. Tell us more Spencer, about all the things you dream about at night but also hate yourself for thinking of.
But people say he was such a nice man. My father has said this, as did my mother who worked as a nurse in the COB. But the guy was really not so nice after all, after you read all hateful the trash he put out.
Anyway, with my new wife seeing the pretty white shirts and the pretty buildings, and with my more recent research into the issue of Kimball's trash book being widely promoted in different languages by the mobot church, I decided to put on youtube a reprise of a song I created some time ago:
And, with Joseph Smith's nutty view of heaven in the form of Kolob, and "Kobol" entering the common consciousness in the form of the much less campy newer Battlestar Galatica version, the following newer song came out of a recent morning shower singing session:
But, Spencer & Boyd really were/are obsessed with that you and your children are up to at home, at night, in the privacy of your bedrooms. What's up with that? And since Spencer's piece of trash book is *very* relevant for the Mormon Church, as per their having it readily available in many different languages at their distribution centers, (and reportedly since it's required reading for new missionaries) it's clear that they are still very interested in transmitting this human spirit destroying set of memes onto everyone they can.
What is up with the Mormon Church & sex? Their horn dog founder created a religion whose god, apparently, has to have an orgasm every 4.6 minutes to create 107 billion people in one million years.
...and yet, now they want to very much control even the mere thought of sex in their members. Why? Because once a person actually allows themselves to be open to the possibility of sex being fun, normal, natural, empowering, and liberating, they can more easily find they have no use for the Mormon God or for the supposedly good feelings you get during Mormon Church meetings or from reading the lies of Joseph in the form of the Mormon scriptures.
The Mormon Church tries to hijack people's basic emotions, and to subvert & control & misinterpret them for their own nefarious ends. Other conservative religions do this also.
In any case I get much better feelings of validation from the love of my wife & new son than I ever got in mostly boring Mormon Church meetings, and from the occasional good feelings they claimed "proved" their church was correct. There's a price to be paid for pretty white shirts and pretty buildings.
If feelings can be used as a form of validation, then that means the much better feelings I've had since leaving mean their lies were incorrect.
----------end of quote
Q. That doesn't mean it isn't good for those of us the religion is working for.
A. It's bad for you even if you think it's good.
Life in Oregon is rather substantially different than life in Provo (unless you live too close to the Portland Temple).
Q. I was a Catholic before I converted to LDS and I wasn't happy but I refuse to bash that religion.
A. Bash away. They need some bashing. Child raping priests? Sounds like a good reason to bash. Have at it!
Q. I have seen no evidence worth my time
A. It was worth your time to write. Is it worth your time to read the responses? If it's not, don't bother complaining in the first place.
Q. I do believe in the church and our prophets, the apostles and the corum of the 70.
A. It's spelled quorum.
Your post is a prime example of why you're not really a happy nor healthy person while being Mormon. Blind ignorance to the life experiences of others. Forcible ignorance to evidence, truth, fact, real history, and so on. You have been abused. You are being abused. And if your children are in the church, they are being abused, for many reasons.
Q. I believe in its teachings and how the church was restored by Joseph Smith.
A. More examples of your abused-status.
Q. All that evidence you talk about is made up and false.
A. More evidence of your being in a cult.
Q. This is a life style for active members, not a hobby or just something we do on Sundays.
A. We know damn well what life is like in the Mormon Church.
Q. We cannot be swayed by false propaganda and 'evidence' written by angry inactives or non-members.
A. More evidence that you're not a nice, happy, or healthy person.
If you want to have a dialogue with people who've left, you can have one, you can have a conversation. But NO we won't shut up at your request. We WON'T stop speaking. We WON'T stop calling out problems with the church of our youth. We WON'T stop trying to free people from the abuse - and that includes trying to free YOU from it.
Sincerely,
Jonathan
April 22, 2014
p.s. Regarding the process of science & how it works:
"Trashing"
& "tear down" might imply that everything's up for grabs when it
isn't. Yes it's the goal of all reasonable honest scientists to try to
"tear down" existing theories. To disprove them. To show where they're
wrong. But more often than not one theory builds upon another.
Einstein's theories didn't destroy Newton's. It simply built upon the
previous theory, showed where Newton's claims remain valid (for most of
human experience & speeds & viewpoints), and where they fall
apart (eg: close to the speed of light or when next to very massive
objects). Same goes for other new theories, usually. But when a bigger
part of a theory is overturned, we view that with joy, not concern.
Cha-ching - we've now learned MORE about the Universe. Super!
The truth finding method of science is far more powerful because of this. Far more accurate results than other methods.
In science you get ahead by disproving or finding flaws with previous theories - and that is it's power.
Oh my fucking god, and Jesus titty fucking Christ, here's a Mormon
Bishop describing first hand how he intends to abuse children within his
sphere of influence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP4siTJiMFI
.
Recorded Aug 26th, 2012 from a
special combined LDS meeting in North Ogden, UT. The topic is supposed
to have come from a regional meeting, although it may have been inspired
by my meeting with the bishop the week before when I protested the
bishop talking about masturbation with my 8 year old for his baptismal
interview.
The meeting was so important to them, that they took role
of who showed up that Sunday, so that they could go visit the families
in their homes who weren't present that day and give the presentation to
them as well. 11:55 to 12:40
is where he talks how he explains to 8 year olds about their privates,
but says that it may not be enough. He's concerned about how little kids
don't know what chastity really is. 25:00-26:15 Questions for potential missionaries: same gender attraction, petting, masturbation, pornography. 26:35 Six month minimum waiting period after any of those sins are committed. 47:25-47:55 Apology to offended people, but excuses himself because of his "mantle."
...end of quote
-------------------------------------- 2. Brain washed pretentious pompous claptrap, from a bunch of retrograde
old farts: Thomas S. Monson, Spencer W. Kimball, Boyd Packer
Examples of the abusive drivel from which the Mormon Bishop referenced above derives his fear-based diatribe against being human:
"We call upon members to renew their commitment to live the Lord’s standard of moral conduct. Parents should teach their children the sacred nature of procreative powers and instill in them a desire to be chaste in thought and deed. A correct understanding of the divinely appointed roles of men and women will fortify all against sinful practices. Our only real safety, physically and spiritually, lies in keeping the Lord’s commandments."
"weesa call upon members to renew thesa commitment to live da lord’s standard of moral conduct.parents should teach thesa children da sacr nature of procreative powers and instill in them a desire to be chasta in thought and de.a correct understand of da divine appoint roles of men and women ganna fortify all against sinful practices.weesa on real safety,physical and spiritual,lies in keep da lord’s commandments."
Swedish Chef:
"Ve-a cell upun members tu renoo zeeur cummeetment tu leefe-a zee Lurd’s stunderd ooff murel cundooct. Um de hur de hur de hur. Perents shuoold teech zeeur cheeldree zee secred netoore-a ooff prucreeteefe-a pooers und insteell in zeem a desure-a tu be-a cheste-a in thuooght und deed. Bork bork bork! A currect understundeeng ooff zee deefinely eppueented rules ooff mee und vumee veell furteeffy ell egeeenst seenffool precteeces. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Oooor oonly reel seffety, physeecelly und spureetooelly, leees in keepeeng zee Lurd’s cummundments. Um gesh dee bork, bork!"
"Most youth come into contact early with masturbation. Many would-be authorities declare that it is natural and acceptable, and frequently young men I interview cite these advocates to justify their practice of it. To this we must respond that the world's norms in many areas: drinking, smoking, and sex experience generally, to mention only a few - depart increasingly from God's law. The Church has a different, higher norm."
"Thus prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice."
"While we should not regard this weakness as the heinous sin which some other sexual practices are, it is of itself bad enough to require sincere repentance. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation--practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality."
"most youth comein into contact ear with masturbation.many would-be authorities declare da isa natural and acceptable,and frequent young men missa interview cita these advocates to justify thesa practice of it.to dis weesa must respond da da biiig empire s norms in many areas:drink,smok,and sex experience general,to mention onda few - depart increasing from biiig one s law.da church has a different,higher norm."
"thus prophets ancient and today condemn masturbation.it induces feelings of guilt and shame.isa detrimental to spirituality.it indicates slavery toda flesh,no da mastery of it and da growth toward godhood which is da object of weesa mortal life.weesa modern prophet has indicat da no young man should be call onda mission who is no free from dis practice."
"while weesa should no regard dis weakness as da heinous sin which some other sexual practices is,isa of itself bombad enough to require sincere repentance.what is more,it too often leads to grievous sin,even to da sin against nature,homosexuality.for,done in privata,it evolves often into mutual masturbation--practic with another person of da same sex and thence into total homosexuality."
Swedish Chef:
"Must yuoot cume-a intu cuntect ierly veet mestoorbeshun. Muny vuoold-be-a oothureeties declere-a thet it is netoorel und eccepteble-a, und freqooently yuoong mee I interfeeoo ceete-a zeese-a edfucetes tu joosteeffy zeeur precteece-a ooff it. Um de hur de hur de hur. Tu thees ve-a moost respund thet zee vurld's nurms in muny erees: dreenking, smukeeng, und sex ixpereeence-a generelly, tu menshun oonly a foo - depert increeseengly frum Gud's lev. Zee Choorch hes a deefffferent, heegher nurm."
"Thoos pruphets unceeently und tudey cundemn mestoorbeshun. It indooces feeleengs ooff gooeelt und sheme-a. It is detreementel tu spureetooelity. Bork bork bork! It indeecetes slefery tu zee flesh, nut thet mestery ooff it und zee groot tooerd gudhuud vheech is zee oobject ooff oooor murtel leeffe-a. Oooor mudern pruphet hes indeeceted thet nu yuoong mun shuoold be-a celled oon a meessiun vhu is nut free-a frum thees precteece-a."
"Vheele-a ve-a shuoold nut regerd thees veekness es zee heeenuoos seen vheech sume-a oozeer sexooel precteeces ere-a, it is ooff itselff bed inuoogh tu reqooure-a seencere-a repentunce-a. Vhet is mure-a, it tuu oofftee leeds tu greeefuoos seen, ifee tu thet seen egeeenst netoore-a, humusexooeleety. Bork bork bork! Fur, dune-a in preefete-a, it ifulfes oofftee intu mootooel mestoorbeshun--precteeced veet unuzeer persun ooff zee seme-a sex und zeence-a intu tutel humusexooeleety. Bork bork bork!"
"Most youth come into contact early with masturbation. Many would-be authorities declare that it is natural and acceptable, like, and frequently young men I interview cite these advocates to justify their practice of it. To this we must respond that thuh world's norms in many areas: drinkin', man, smokin', like, wow, and sex experience generally, man, to mention only a few - depart increasin'ly from God's law. The Church has a different, man, higher norm."
"Thus prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelin's of guilt and shame. It is ya know, like, detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to thuh flesh, like, not that mastery of it and thuh growth toward godhood which is like wow! the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young nerd should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice."
"While we should not regard this weakness as thuh heinous sin which some other sexual practices are, oh, baby, it is ya know, like, of itself mean enough to require sincere repentance. What is more, man, it too often leads to grievous sin, like, even to that sin against nature, man, homosexuality. For, like, wow, done in private, mostly, it evolves often into mutual masturbation--practiced with another person of thuh same sex and thence into total homosexuality."
I think my favorite versions are Swedish Chef.
------------------------
There's many reasons to extract oneself from such insantiy.
Teaching children to fear their own bodies. That is what the Mormon Church teaches. Teaching eight, and eleven, and twelve year old children that masturbation may lead to homosexuality. Crazy. Stupid. Abusive. This must be stopped!
