The Atheist Movement: Pour in more laxative

A quote from Faisal Saeed Al Mutar (December 18, 2014):

I am going to confess about something that has been bugging me for the past 6 months that I want to get out of my chest and I know that some people will disagree me about it.

Since June this year, I have "partly" quit the Atheist community in America and put full focus on human rights in dictatorships which has always been my interest since I read Christopher Hitchens's first book, when I went to the first Atheist conference last year in Austin, I was filled with excitement and joy, after finishing my last conference for this year in North Carolina, I was filled with fear.

This fear comes from an Iraqi who lived a civil war, there is so much inner fighting that happens in the Atheist movement that put me so many times in between choosing between two people that I both consider friends.
It's like being the child of a divorced parents who hate each other.
I am a foreigner to this country and I noticed this behavior to be extremely weird and destructive.
It's always to good to disagree and have a civil discussion about it but the movement doesn't seem to fulfill what it claims to aspire to.
I have formed a wonderful family in that movement and I am very happy about it.
I sincerely hope that things will be alright whether I will be dead or alive in future to witness it.
Best Regards
Faisal Saeed Al Mutar.
A freaking refugee from a war torn country.
www.faisalalmutar.com

 ---quote ends

My response:

One could well ask what type of movement the atheist movement is. Clearly one which requires a lot more laxative, to clear out those who very much prefer to have atheist groups be de facto religions.

I agree that examining the life work of people like Christopher Hitchens, and frankly the life work of the Monty Python group (seriously!) is key. Also make note of Steven Pinker, Dennett, Harris, and others who've chosen to push against both sides of the political & social spectrum - to push against dogmas which simply do not accurately describe human nature or facts on the ground about many matters.

Atheism Plus? Pour in the Ex-Lax.

Unitarian Universalism's fawning appreciation of Islam & Mohamed, with the help of religious curricula drafted directly from Reza Aslan works? Pour in the Metamucil.

A rejection 13.8 billion years of evolution by natural selection, basic good family values, basic biology, and evolutionary history - from the left? Add the Miralax. The left can deny human nature too (ref. Pinker as a start).

It's hard to have atheist groups which aren't echo chambers, and little petty cliquish mirrors of the pompous frantic idiocy of know-it-all-but-know-nothing college students.

Dennett's dangerous idea is that religion is a natural phenomenon. It's so damn natural that two or more atheists gathered in the name of a social or political ideology cannot help but form a de facto one, with heresy trials & excommunication all waiting in the wings as ready tools of belief maintenance and thought control.

There is a sickness present in American universities. The sickness of dogmatic political correctness. Dogma does not help humanity move forward toward the truth. What you're seeing in atheist groups is a symptom of this sickness.
A crucible of ideas cannot work in an atmosphere of stifling thought control.

Related thoughts:
The Atheist Movement needs more laxative - Making room for social & political conservatives!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-atheist-movement-needs-move.html

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/atheism%20is%20a%20religion

Has your life been happier after leaving Mormonism?

Questions: "...How has life been since you left the LDS church? Do you feel like you're happier?"

Yes, I'm happier, for many reasons.

I'm also upset, for other reasons.

Happy because:

1. I have a wife & kid who aren't Mormon.
2. I'm out.
3. I can touch my John Thomas.
4. I can engage in oral sex.
5. I can drink coffee, tea, and cabernet sauvignon wine.
6. I can watch Destricted, or Caligula without shame or guilt.
7. My kid won't be a Mormon.
8. I'm more intellectually honest.
9. I'm more emotionally honest.
10. I'm no longer in the soul-destroying culture of Mormonism.

Upset because:

A. The "recovery" groups like Atheists of Utah, Unitarian Universalism, CFI, Humanist groups, Minnesota Atheists, Atheism Plus, and even your local Stonewall center (for those so sucked in), are all de facto ultra-leftist religions, with their own unquestionable dogmas & doctrines. Denying human nature & human history, while claiming to be skeptical. Assuming that everything IS permitted when there is no god, even though it's not.

B. The defeatist Krausian mayfly theory of human existence is out there in the secular community, teaching atheists to be just as nihilistic as your average evangelical Christian.

C. Finding that the left can be just as abusive as the right.

D. Finding that the left is so incredibly myopic about the entire scope of human experience. Only the hippie tribes are valued. But desert tribes, or even Chinese tribes, oh, we must ignore them. Hippie colored glasses slant their view.

E. On the other hand, I'm also upset that the Mormon Church continues to destroy the lives of children & adults, via wide publication in many languages of incredibly abusive books like Miracle of Forgiveness. I'm also upset that sexually intrusive interviews still happen with children & adults.

More: http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/

The Atheist Movement needs more laxative - Making room for social & political conservatives!

link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_f6bQjwNQo

 
The Atheist Movement needs more laxative, so as to make room for a wider scope of inclusion.

Social & political moderates & conservatives!

The business of "recovering" from religion is not so easy or simple.

One can foolishly jump from one extreme, to the other.

Until, one day, a person wakes up and realizes what has happened:

Freaks like this are readily accepted into the leftist community.

And, this uncle who grew up in ultra-conservative Manti, Utah - dying of AIDS leaving his straight family with no father. A victim BOTH of Mormonism, and of the opposite side he jumped to in response.

Examples of the dark side of "social justice" advocacy in the atheist (bowel) movement:

Atheism Plus Social Justice Update Pt. 1: The Lulz

http://youtu.be/rtOUWCKBKB8

Atheism Plus Social Justice Update Pt. 2: Feeding the Troll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=711OW6trnAQ

Creepy Clowns: Freethought Bullies and the Threat Narrative Clown Horn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_7SRa_xQNQ

On PZ Myers

http://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/2012/10/17/the-comments-pz-myers-doesnt-want-you-to-see/

On elevatorgate:

https://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/tag/elevatorgate/

and

http://revolutionaryatheist.tumblr.com/post/49553395619/elevatorgate-everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-

Some preliminary responses:

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminism-and-the-disposable-male/

My own thoughts:

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/humanist

and

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/left

and

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/recovery-from-atheists-of-utah.html

My angel reading convicted pedophile friend accepting nephew is a victim also, of all sides, both of Mormonism's extreme harshness regarding boys who're perhaps a bit more effeminate & who masturbate, plus his father's harshness on such issues, and the opposite end cesspool.

Related posts:

Recovery from Atheists of Utah
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/recovery-from-atheists-of-utah.html

Advice for Social Conservatives & Moderates, from a Family Values Atheist
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/advice-for-social-conservatives.html

Free St. Patrick's Day from ultra-leftist religious dogmatism

Seculars against ultra-leftist religious dogmatism.

Naive ultra-liberal dogmatism is highly present in the following de facto branches of the religion known as Stonewall: American Atheists; Atheism Plus; Unitarian Universalism; Council for Secular Humanism; Center For Inquiry, Atheists of Utah, and so-called naturalists and humanists.

Since when did being human or natural mean we have to accept 100% of the gay agenda? Inherently non-reproductive sex? By default a petty dead end narcissistic lifestyle? Perhaps concern about homosexuality is natural? How's that?

Most recently the LGBTQPZ community became very upset with the New York City St. Patrick's Day Parade.

Found this on American Atheists' facebook page:

Generally speaking the American Atheists group, located in Cranford, New Jersey, is in my view yet another branch of the liberal dogmatic religion known as Stonewall, as are all of the other groups I mentioned above.

My response to the social-justice oh so righteous warriors on the ultra left, who want to fly the gay flag at every possible event:

Not every parade needs to be a gay pride one. The boycotts are stupid IMO. The parade organizers get to decide who's in their parade. If the Stonewall place in NYC wants to have their own parade, they can. But they shouldn't demand to hijack the regular parade for their own agenda. Liberal dogma can be a de facto religion. Whatever American Atheists or the advocates for atheism plus happen to say isn't automatically on my own list of important agenda items.

The quintessential struggle of our time is not the promotion of the ultra-liberal agenda. Rather, it's just general advocacy for science, survival, and a prudent amount of hawkishness so as to curtail the actions of world-stage bullies. That's my view...

As for the rest, you can put me on a heresy trial if you wish, but if you do so you'll be just acting in yet another religion, just one with a new name.

I'm not a member of your church, nor do I wish to be.

Related post I generally agree with:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1467403400144168&id=293011477509961

Quotes from the post of the group Seculars Against Same Sex "Marriage:"

Just as black pride, brown pride, feminist pride, etc cannot be emphasized at the Boston St. Patrick's Day Parade; the same applies to gay pride groups as well. The parade and day has nothing to do with any of the causes mentioned above. Blacks, Hispanics, Feminists, and Gays can still be in the parade, but just not promoting their own identity politics.

*"In their defence, parade organisers claim that gay people are not prohibited from marching, just not allowed to march under gay-themed banners. In Boston, organisers point to the fact that gay people this year joined a ‘diversity’ float that represented a South Boston neighbourhood.

*According to Boston’s lead parade organiser, Philip Wuschke: ‘We don’t ban gay people. We ban groups that are trying to make a statement.’ He notes that they have rejected a variety of groups, including the Ku Klux Klan, Irish heterosexual pride and an anti-abortion organisation, among others...

* Or you might ask, why do gay activists insist on joining a parade that isn’t about their cause and, in the case of Boston and New York, doesn’t want them there as a separately identified group?

*The notoriously anti-gay Westboro Baptist Church probably doesn’t expect to be able to join a gay pride march, and gay pride organisers wouldn’t let them in if they tried (in fact, St Patrick’s Day organisers in Boston say they turned down an application from Westboro, which is anti-Catholic as well as anti-gay, to join the parade)...

*This is the top-down, elite-led politics of name and shame, rather than a properly liberal campaign that draw upon popular support.

*What we are witnessing is an attack on those who don’t share today’s pro-gay outlook. Some may not want to opt out of this Culture War, but the war increasingly won’t allow there to be any bystanders. Instead, there is pressure to conform. Even if it does not spill over into the political or legal world, such conformism is problematic for the free flow of ideas.

*The sky will not fall if gays and lesbians are allowed to march in the Boston and New York St Patrick’s Day parades. But we will create a conformist, intolerant and unfree society if we do not allow space for the expression of different views, including traditional religious teachings about homosexuality and same-sex marriage."

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/who-are-the-real-bigots-in-the-st-pats-spat/14797#.UycY1PldWaR

 ---end of quote

Related posts:

Listening to the NARTH guy - issues more complex than either side says
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/03/listening-to-narth-guy-issues-more.html

A high abundance of angel readers and other nutjobs within the gay "lifestyle"
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/02/a-high-abundance-of-angel-readers-and.html

Again from http://www.naturalism.org/sexualit.htm

"...Since there are no objective harms of being or acting gay, there are no reasons to withhold any constitutional right from homosexuals, including marriage..."

But there IS objective harm! The naive liberal just doesn't know. It's par for the course.

And I am reminded of:

1. My gay uncle who died of aids leaving his straight family with no kids.
2. My gay nephew who leads a petty, shallow, dead-end type of life.
3. However and also: gay people I know who spend their lives helping others, in service oriented lives.
4. Gay people like Stephen Fry, who I largely admire.
5. The crappy crazy warped & perverse sexual morality in Mormonism & Catholicism.

In any case, I don't wish to be annexed by either side. Just because I think there may be problems with the petty selfish lifestyle present in homosexual culture doesn't mean I believe we should shame children for masturbation, for example, or teach children that masturbation automatically leads to homosexuality, which of course it does not.

Religion basically fucks up people's built-in sexuality. It can fuck it up so much that you can go WAY to far over to the other side. So in my view gays are ALSO being abused by religion, by being pushed away from normal productive human relations by the extreme anger on the issue present in conservative religion. So this is not a simple issue.

Church History museum; Chinese family values; atheist & humanist groups are religions too.

Commentary on our visit to the LDS Church History Museum and to Temple Square. We saw the new Boy Scout exhibit at the museum, the golden plates, the angel Macaroni (I mean Moroni), and so on.

Built in human morality fully exists within religions, and also in less religious societies like China. How can we separate the useful facts of human morality in religion from the lies? It's hard work.

Mormonism is a modern cult - a cult in a suit and a tie. But new atheist and humanist groups are religions also - where you have lies you cannot question, and where you have to be politically correct for fear of not being a "genuine" atheist or humanist.

Religions do have some good ideas, but you wouldn't realize that unless you: a.) spent several years checking out all the hippie crap, and b.) going to gay bars & parties with your gay nephew, and c.) making note of how a convicted pedophile was gladly accepted back into your nephew's friend group after leaving prison, and d.) going to Portland and seeing what people do there via an Alice in Wonderland style journey, and e.) marrying a woman from China - where they never heard of Joseph Smith and very little of Jesus. Also making note of how your gay uncle died of AIDS leaving his regular normal family with no father will help expand your perspective. So, in spite of their bullshit, the Mormon & Catholic churches do have some very good ideas and ideals.

Why do religions have to support themselves with lies? Even the atheistic versions of religions have lies? Lies about the negative impacts of the ultra-left agenda.

The crazy ideas are mixed in with some good and useful truths. It's all integrated together. So, how can we separate out useful fact from harmful fiction? Perhaps one key way is this: refusing to be politically correct!

Maybe China is showing us the way: family values! They don't believe in Jesus or Joseph Smith, and yet they have a great deal of good valuable down home family values. They aren't perfect either, but they do value family.

But: Shhh! In atheist & humanist groups have to be very quiet about what you really think - and so such groups are religion also. So watch out!

Reject political correctness and embrace family values.

8-27-2013 7:32am

thoughts on being an atheist moderate: conservative on some issues, liberal on some, and moderate on more and more

Here's my current views:

Social moderate, economically moderate to liberal (depending on the issue). Would prefer single payer healthcare, but agree there's too many people on the dole. The alternatives to the state sponsored dole are worse though - the Church or the street. Not sure gay marriage and the gay agenda are all that helpful to humanity generally. Try to take a step back from all sides, left & right. Take a naturalistic approach. Avoid cults of personality. But 100% naturalism doesn't mean we have to accept all of what people do. Everyone draws the line somewhere.

Since religion is natural (ref. Daniel Dennett) that means we cannot dismiss every idea that comes from religion. I'm not an Ayn Rand fan, nor a corporation personhood fan.

European (French) style economic socialism (which encourages regulated capitalism) seems useful. Libertarianism seems to be a fundie religion in and of itself to me. But on the other hand America-haters like Noam Chomsky and Amy Goodman have huge problems also.

The key is just taking a step back from all sides.

After having a kid I am developing more conservative views, especially with regard to social issues. The stuff people do when single is largely a waste of time, and often wrong headed. I don't agree with Bill Maher on the issue of children & think he's not only childish but foolish. But I am with him, Salman Rushdie, and Hitchens in being a "9/11 liberal" or maybe now more of a 9/11 moderate.

I don't believe everything is equal, and so for me "atheism plus" is really atheism triple minus. Atheists who jump right into ultra-feminism or ulta-leftism are really not doing justice to what science shows: we need to have open discussions and open debates. A crucible. Maybe, for example, science will show that two parent homes really *are* better than single parent ones. Maybe the liberal politically correct status quo *will* be challenged by honest science. Let's see. Don't be afraid to ask questions, even of the fanatic nuts on your own side.

Pinker did a good job of dispelling the noble savage myth. Anyone born in America is a "native American." And the term "aboriginal" is racist in and of itself. All humans came out of Africa not too long ago. All humans are descendants of about 10,000 individuals. So as to who's "original" or "native" where & when is largely an exercise in tribal-based revenge-seeking in-group morality which seeks to foist the sins of past humans onto humans alive today who had zero to do with what happened in the past.