I'm in the Hitchens camp. Christopher before. Peter now. Leftist denial of human nature.

I'm in the Hitchens camp. Christopher before. Peter now.

It's what happens after starting a family with a socially conservative atheist from rural China. No Bibles there.

Peter Hitchens vs Dan Savage


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQY4BuYWD4s
Listening to the incredibly crass way Dan Savage conducts himself is revealing. One wonders if he even knows where babies come from?

The left is in denial about human nature. Built in by evolution by natural selection good human values. Active denial. Dangerous denial. Abusive denial.

Agreed the Mormon Church abuses people. But so does the other side. It's hard to hold onto basic good human values when you've been so severely lied to & deceived. Takes time to recover. And then to recover from recovery.

Both the left & right are in denial about human nature. Both are rather highly upset at the prospect of admitting that we are human, set up by evolution by natural selection, to have build in morality, and an apparent propensity or high susceptibility for mysticism. The right doesn't like admitting that we are evolved animals. The left doesn't like admitting that we are evolved animals with built in morality & evolved culture - culture which helps us avoid the pitfalls built into human nature. Religion (AKA culture - ref Daniel Dennett) is a fully natural effect of how we've evolved.

Outliers naturally come about. But they need to be a.) classified & identified for what they are, and b.) curtailed when they're destructive or dangerous. Not forcibly treated as "equal" in all venues IMO. For example maybe a child needs a mommy & daddy, ideally, for it's own best welfare & development - as a normal non-outlier child. Can the left (& libertarians) question their own presuppositions? Are they in denial about human nature also? I have observed that they are.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-political-brain/
http://www.michaelshermer.com/tag/confirmation-bias/

And back to Peter, he was a leftist, then he moved more right. Same with me, after I met a socially conservative completely-non-bibical atheist from rural China.

My legacy website, more reflective of my first state after leaving Mormonism (ultra left after being ultra right):http://corvus.freeshell.org

Current blog - reflective of my recovery from recovery, and finally growing up:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com

Are Mormonism & Catholicism homosexual & pedophile generators? | Connections between homosexuality & pedophilia

Adam Carolla makes a quick transition in his commentary, from gays to pedos.

http://www.salon.com/2014/05/19/adam_carolla_where_are_all_the_jewish_roofers

"I don’t even know who’s gay and who’s not gay nine times out of 10 — why do you even need to know? Your skin color and gender one can see, if one wanted to discriminate. In terms of sexual proclivities, I don’t know what someone’s into! You could work with someone who’s into kids — how would you know?"

Clearly not every gay is a pedo. But is the link nonexistent?

Item 10 at
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/family-values-atheism-questioning.html

Which links to more info
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/response-to-site-claims-attack-by-lds.html

Sickening and abhorrent to know that human nature allows for such trash as pedos to be produced. Defects that should be locked up for life. Why is such trash picked up and valued by at least some gays?

Not fun to talk about. Liberal heresy to think what I saw was not a one off - that the observation has significant relevance.

---

Oh, and yes the Mormon Church does abuse kids.

http://web.archive.org/web/20131021180407/http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml

In my estimation there may well be deeper contributory expression-promotion synergistic links between Mormonism, gayness, pedos, and apology for pedos.

By comparison, the Catholic Church complains mightily about gayness, and they also have many pedo and/or gay priests.

Convicted pedophile who is friends with 5+ Salt Lake City area gays, and attendee at gay house parties and bars (saw first hand):

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695261750/Secret-shame-Predator-was-coach-Scout-chief.html

The truth sucks sometimes, but the non-truth sucks more.

Yes I imagine there's gays with more brain cells and morals. However sex with boyz (their spelling) is a common reference. Heard it first hand with my nephew and his friends many times.

I was the first leftbot chump my nephew came out to. In hindsight I wish I had referred him to other options than to hook up with gay culture.

-----------

Are Mormonism and Catholicism homosexual & pedophile generation machines?

In part I believe they are. For similar & different reasons, and for reasons having to do with expected responses to rightist extremism: leftist extremism.

Those "recovering" from those religions can also become abused & abuse themselves as they go way too far over to the other side, Both "sides" of the same coin playing off each other. Fighting each other. Helping each other be more extreme and frankly denialist.

Who introduced Mormon children to the concept of homosexuality? Past Mormon Prophet Spencer Kimball & related cohorts. So Kimball, by his extremist actions of linking innocuous masturbation with dead-end homosexuality, did both abuse children by helping them fear masturbation, plus he first placed in the minds of children the "option" for being a homosexual - so that when the child rebels against the retrograde idea of shaming for masturbation, he may look to homosexuality as a sort of "refuge" from the abusive nature of Mormonism.

A thesis.

A theory.

An opinion.

But also an observation: as noted I have a gay nephew who I spent many years with going to parties. He "came out" to me first. I observed his actions first hand. I know how harsh his father was & strict & ultra Mormon.

"Rebelling" against the abusive ultra-conservatism of Mormonism, meant, for my nephew, becoming a petty ultra-gay sexual-dead-end narcissist - abused so much by both sides that he readily accepts a convicted pedophile into his friend circle.

Next, we have my supposedly-bi uncle from Manti, Utah. Again, in response to the abusive nature of Mormonism in Manti, he moves to San Francisco, gets AIDS, dies, and leaves his straight family with no father. A multi-year process admittedly. But still this was the net result.

Then, we have groups like Atheists of Utah, who see themselves as the "answer" to Mormonism. Their "answer" is gayness, whosale embracing of the "gay agenda." No questions. No dissent. No other ideas. No other concepts. No other politics than ultra-left. No other thoughts allowed in their group. Just the most extreme leftist agenda, period. Their "answer" to Mormonism is: homosexuality.

So, a huge homosexual generation machine: Mormonism, and respondents to Mormonism. Linked together & a de facto gay and gay-agenda-apologist generator.

As for Catholicism, they also help generate more homosexuals and pedophiles by having forced celibacy of their priests. Their doctrines preach great fear about homosexuality. Their leaders talk about this again & again. So in Catholic households they are constantly telling their children about gayness. And the priests are often just a bunch of fucking pedophiles. So, in such an environment, what do you think will be the result?

When children rebel, they *may* more easily become gay, or a pedo, or both - and thus be tarred by the abusive stance of Catholicism on sexual issues. The first answer for Catholicism is to require all their priests to be married, to a woman. And secondly to allow women priests, women who are married to men.

For Mormonism, they should stop distributing the abusive book Miracle of Forgiveness. Stop interviewing children & adults about masturbation, and about sex before marriage. Tell children that masturbation is ok. Trying to wait to have sex in marriage is ok - but sometimes having sex with a person you'll most likely marry is ok too. Plus tell them that oral sex is ok - tell that especially to the adults (as oral sex was banned in Mormonism in the past).

Sex sex sex. When you try to press it down too much, you may just end up having a gay-person generation machine.

Now, I have to keep saying this I know. I realize there are service oriented gay people who are more level headed. More ethical. More moral. Less petty.

However, there are huge problems with "gay culture." Direct links to pedophilia which are not easy to dismiss. Not every gay person is such a "link," but the de facto links are there, at the parties, at the bars, on the Internet, and so on.

How to move forward? With honesty. Honesty about abuse on the right and the left. Honesty about how harshness on the right can well lead to a petty destructive narcissistic culture on the left in response. Playing off each other.

There are "answers" to be found on both sides, left & right. What answers come from the left? To not shame children too much for things like masturbation. To not be too controlling. To have systems in place which provide a social safety net for people. To help keep "cheats" in control, rich sociopathic cheats who would screw everyone over if it weren't for proper regulation.

The "answers" to be found on the right are that shaming for some forms of sexual expression does help protect us, from AIDS, from petty narcissism, from dead end tail chasing, and so on. That normal family life, with a mommy, and a daddy, and children, is the ideal center for humanity, it has been, it is, and it must be the center. When a male-female parent with child structure is not the center, the right is "right" to say that we're about to go right off the fucking rails.

As for gayness, gays have a right to jobs, apartments, and to not be harassed per se for having sex with other gays. But, on the other hand, children have a right to a mommy and daddy (!), including adopted children!

In my view both single women, and lesbians, should be barred from sperm bank use, period. A legal framework should be put into place to ensure that artificially facilitiated reproduction more closely mirrors what happens with more natural.

It's dangerous to fuck with how 13.8 billion years of evolution have set up. Humans are not blank slates (ref. Steven Pinker). We have a long sexual, not asexual, not homosexual, just sexual history.

Sex. The left fear it as much as the right. Don't be afraid of sex. Celebrate it. It's where life comes from! It helps you be wisely selfish. It helps you not to live a petty, stunted, dead end life - if you allow it to work normally. If you honor it's history.

A man.

A woman.

Babies.

Life!

Children may need a mommy and a daddy - even adopted children.

There is no such thing as "gay marriage" because two gay people cannot make babies, naturally with each other, period.

Only naturally sexually reproducing couples (ie: male & female couples) should have access to children.

Crazy defective destructive dangerous outlier men who're attracted to children should be locked up for life

Not everything is equal: gay's cannot produce babies naturally with each other, men with men, and women with women. Cannot, naturally, via the method which came from 1.2 billion years of evolutionary sexual history.

Yes there are service oriented gays who're more moral. But, things aren't so cut and dry as to assume that gay culture is a healthy panacea "answer" to right wing religion. It ain't.

Daniel Dennett's dangerous idea: Religion is a natural phenomenon. This fact cuts both ways. Fully natural, normal, valuable, and useful human morality can and does exist within religious frameworks. A damn hard thing for a liberal to admit! In fact many liberals are in active denial.

Sometimes the nuttypots DO know something. Fuck. That's a damn fucking hard thing for an ex-Mormon, or liberal, to admit. But most liberals are so naive and victims of fearful politically correct culture, they don't dare investigate whether their own presuppositions are flawed or not.

Is the "right" right, sometimes? Yes. Often they go way too far with their responses. AND their responses can push people right over the edge, right into the destructive cultures the right is so fearful of. That's the damn sucky thing about the whole situation (from the perspective of your average PC liberal who would prefer that things be otherwise).

Lefties can be as abusive as righties. An ultra-rightie can easily become an ultra-leftie - with an equal level of abuse being present. But often such people are too naive to recognize what is happening or what has happened.

Been there, first hand. Seen it happen to others, again and again. Seen the costs. So now, I'm more for honesty, than for 100% advocacy for leftist agenda.

========

Additional links:

Family Values Atheism: Questioning liberal dogma -- the Gay Flag: Freaks Welcome Here -- questioning gay marriage -- secular reparative therapy (choosing to live straight)
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/family-values-atheism-questioning.html

response to: 'Porn site claims attack by LDS Church servers' and questioning sex with 'boys' in gay culture
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/response-to-site-claims-attack-by-lds.html

Brief history of the modern childlove movement
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1794584/posts

The Pedophile Elephant in the Gay Activist Closet
http://www.voiceofrevolution.com/2011/11/15/the-pedophile-elephant-in-the-gay-activist-closet/

A Secular Case Against Gay Marriage?
http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/a-secular-case-against-gay-marriage/

'Severing Love From Diapers': The Other Case Against Gay Marriage
http://www.npr.org/2013/03/20/174848127/severing-love-from-diapers-gay-marriage-opponents-make-their-case

A Non-Religious Case Against Same Sex Marriage
http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2013/04/a-non-religious-case-against-same-sex-marriage.html

Read the "yes" side at:
http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-there-any-good-secular-arguments-against-gay-marriage
if you're a self described liberal you already know the no side. So read the yes side.

A secular case against same-sex marriage
https://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/a-secular-case-against-same-sex-marriage/

The Political Brain
A recent brain-imaging study shows that our political predilections are a product of unconscious confirmation bias
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-political-brain/

Michael Shermer on confirmation bias, on the left:
http://www.michaelshermer.com/tag/confirmation-bias/

Homosexual Sentenced to 40 Years in Prison After Offering ‘Son’ to International Pedophile Ring
http://christiannews.net/2013/07/06/homosexual-sentenced-to-40-years-in-prison-after-offering-son-to-international-pedophile-ring/

Man who's friends with 5+ gay people in Salt Lake City, and an attendee at local gay house parties & bars:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695261750/Secret-shame-Predator-was-coach-Scout-chief.html

Advice for Social Conservatives & Moderates, from a Family Values Atheist
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/advice-for-social-conservatives.html

Religion is a natural phenomenon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WhQ8bSvcHQ

Human Nature: A Conservative, Classical Liberal & Libertarian View
http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/library/philosophy/human-nature-conservative-classical-liberal-libertarian-view

My own additional thoughts:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/homosexuality

Conservative Naturalism: Don't put your willie in the deadly destructive glory hole of the left. You might get both an STD and an MTD

(link to video - for iphone users and others)
Conservative Naturalism. Make some room please, in the universe of ideas.

[Collections of several recent posts from the past couple of days, advocating for the value of conservative naturalism.]

Here's one prime example of why the "secular left" is no solution or answer to the religious right:

http://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/2012/10/17/the-comments-pz-myers-doesnt-want-you-to-see/

P.Z. Myers. What a bummer.

No easy solution or social group to associate with after leaving Mormonism.

-------------------------

I question liberal dogma.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/family-values-atheism-questioning.html

Can we find a cure?
http://jaymans.wordpress.com/2013/01/12/a-gay-germ-is-homophobia-a-clue/

...to the LDC?

Time will tell, as will reproduction.

Who will care that you were alive, in 100 years?

If you're straight, have some kids. Write a book. Create some good art or science!

If you're gay, devote your life to service oriented pursuits, helping everyone especially the crazy straights who happen to value reproduction (god fucking forbid!). Create, if you can, some damn good art that amuses & provokes both gay & straight people, and which annoys people also. Annoyance is the key to good art - both straight and gay. The more annoying the better. This advise holds for both straight & gay artists.

Try to help your kids learn about the value of science, so that we can help the garden we've been given survive.

Survival is the bottom line.

Sex is set up in humans to be selfish - WISELY selfish.

If we AREN'T sucked into kid stuff, it's EASY to lead a petty dead end life, straight or gay.

Dunk straight aunt with no kids, who used to call my father while drunk all the time?

A zero on the Great Mandala.

Angel Reading Gay Nephew with a convicted pedo for a friend, nephew who spends his life posting near naked photos on FB?

Mostly a zero on the Great Mandala.

Service oriented gay guy who helps us with we go on vacation, and who has a highly service oriented career.

A reasonable place on the Mandala tapestry.

Stephen Fry & Oscar Wilde - mostly reasonable places from what I can tell so far.

Roman Polanski, should have his placed burned off the Mandala.

Joseph Smith also.

David Koresh also, and Jim Jones. Should be wiped CLEAN from the cloth.

What will your contribution be?

There are conservative fully naturalistic reasons to be concerned about birth control, sperm banks, and the forced equivalence of gay marriage & adoption.

If all respondents have in their tool box are ad hominem attacks, I'm acutely uninterested in those types of responses.

If you can change my mind, then change it. Otherwise, if I'm annoying, too bad. I'll still be on the net transmitting. Whether you listen or not is your choice. I just advocate that you find some useful place on the tapestry before your little tiny chance is gone.

-------------------------

Political history:

Dad liberal. He was always upset w/conservative stance of most Mormons.

I voted democrat while Mormon, and after leaving their church.

Went on an Alice in wonderland style journey after leaving.

Checked out nudists, polys, Portland sex party people, gay bars and parties.

Finally got married to a down to Earth socially moderate woman from China. She's atheist.

One kid. Another on the way.

Still like social welfare politically (Obamacare - w/a pref. for single payer),

Ayn Rand was an idiot who knew nothing about human nature. On the other hand Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist.

Perhaps like the South Park guys I hate conservatives, but I hate liberals even more. However I'm not libertarian, nor do I have "everything should be forcibly equal" gay colored glasses on.

I'm a truth and survival advocate. I care more about the truth (and general human survival) than group memberships or sucking up to any one group leader.  

Perhaps I am following in the footsteps of my rebel father to some extent. But I also highly value the life work of people like Christopher Hitchens, Steven Pinker, Daniel Dennett, and Carl Sagan.

I don't have empathy for wastrels. Take your place on the tapestry of life if and how you can, and while you have a chance.

I'm not a gaybot (similar to a mobot, but more gay).

Hey in a democracy in theory the people get to decide - except when naive judges take away our rights.

I know it's a balancing act between inherent rights and not. But until parthenogenesis is a natural reality, not everything will be equal.

-------------------------

Knock knock knock on the sperm bank door - the anxious lesbians wait outside. Non married to a person of the opposite sex women probably should be denied sperm from strange buildings such as those.

I can see why the religious right are upset. I'm not for a gay "marriage" ban. More for an alliance that promotes straight family life. The gays can do the interior decorating. That's ok. But regular natural families should be our top priority. Not STFU Parents woman on Jian G's show. 

Where's the socially conservative gays? Somewhere with the log cabin group?

-------------------------

Reach into the tool box of meme set defense mechanisms. Pull out one tool, after another, after another, after another.

Down deep in your meme set defense bag is the more heavy hammer & sharper instruments.

But, mostly what you've got so far is one logical fallacy, after another, after another. Smoke. Refusing to read what the other person says, or lazy name calling.

No wonder Mormons & other conservative religionists are wary of the other side. Wary for many reasons. And, regarding some of those reasons, I don't blame them!

They should fear for the safety of their children. Quite true. If your children get sucked into the "loving" arms of the LDC, they could well get AIDS or some other STD, become a druggie, "choose" to not have kids because of LDC ideology at school, "choose" to become gay or a mixed-sex freak, become destructive in other ways, etc.

Don't get an STD (sexually transmitted disease) or an MTD (memetically transmitted disease) by putting your willie into the glory hole of the left - it's no panacea.

-------------------------

What's the balance between straight marriage, straight family life, and not?

13.8 billion years to 10 years.

10 years or so of lesbians knocking, knocking, knocking on the sperm bank door.

13.8 billion where a woman had to find a man and vice versa.

Quite a comparison.

Liberal denial of human nature, and our long history.

Traitors to their 13.8 billion year history. A repugnant death cult. THIS is liberalism for you TODAY!

-------------------------

[Responding to a post by one man who is exhibiting traits of currently being held down by LDC ideology:]

Slow motion suicide, helping rob YOU of a place on the tapestry of life:

"...there are perhaps other reasons why homosexual behavior may be increasingly cropping up in human and other species. There is a certain 'carrying load' of animal species and homosexuality may actually be nature's way of bringing things back into balance."

"Humanity is in no danger of dying out from lack of reproduction. It may be seriously endangering itself though, through overpopulation. Personally, those who are hysterical about the 'gay agenda' are simply fear-mongering in order to exert social control over a behavior that they find...icky? I have many gay friends. Their agenda is quite simply. To enjoy the same legal protections in their relationships that heterosexuals enjoy. That is the sum total of their agenda."

"To assume that procreation is the only societally building relationship ignores all of the couples who are for one reason or another unable to procreate. The argument that homosexual relationships are unproductive are meritless since there are millions of gay people who are functioning and productive members of society."

Responses to the above LDC meme set collection expression:

1. Your answer proves my point. To support the equivalence of "gay marriage" you MUST advocate that most people NOT have children. You must advocate for the value of childless marriage - and that such a state may actually be good. Slow motion suicide. A death cult. No other words for it.

These people have a point:
http://overpopulationisamyth.com/
and http://overpopulationisamyth.com/category/categories/pop101

Lurking behind LDC dogma are things like China's mandatory one child policy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy

Totalitarian eugenics.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/03/margaret-sanger-also-amoral-fuck.html
and
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/Margaret%20Sanger

An ideology of death, for the individual, and for society. The only fools who are listening are the liberals. Suicide for their own culture. Perhaps that's not so bad?

People WILL ignore you! They are ignoring you! They will continue to ignore you! Thank goodness!

Take your place on the Great Mandala, or Not!. It's up to you! I just advocate that you do. Don't allow yourself to be robbed of life & key foundational life experiences by LDC dogma!

2. Meritless?

False equivalences are the meritless, dangerous, destructive doctrinal points of the left.

Hey, I'm quite familiar with the dogma of the LDC. I've seen it first hand. My sister is a victim. My gay nephew is one. You are probably one too. I ask that you not be.

13.8 billion years. To 10. 13.8 billion years. To 10. Quite a ratio.

Traitors to life & to your own history.

"Carrying load" - may as well commit suicide now. Too many people? Let's be childfree.

May as well commit suicide. Hey, if your choice holds, the net-result will be pretty much the same.

But please DON'T! Have a kid if you can, using good old fashioned reproduction! And if you cannot, then help support those who do! Don't be a traitor to your own history.

Conservative naturalism. Advocacy for life. Honoring our true history, as 13.8 billion year evolved highly intelligent sexual animals. But sometimes our neural networks can send us right off the fucking rails and into a ditch. The LDC is one such ditch.

Please avoid it. Embrace life. Is that too much to ask?

-------------------------

Further liberal-meme-set expression posted:

"A.) Homosexuality is not maladaptive to psychosocial health. B.) There is no evidence that allowing gays to marry increases rates of homosexual behavior. In short, allowing gays and lesbians to marry the person they love will have no statistically significant negative impact on individuals or society as a whole."

My response:

A. Tell that to the people robbed of their place on the tapestry of life by LDC ideology.

B. Are we sure? The endeavor of science cannot yet be trusted on the question, because of the strong bias against a non-PC non-LDC honest answer from science.

No impact? Unless it does. Straightness is not honored in such a household. An imposition of destructive LDC ideology is by default imposed on the kid. Child abuse to grow up in such a household. More ready exposure to "gay culture." 
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/response-to-site-claims-attack-by-lds.html

A betrayal of basic human nature.

13.8 billion years. 10 years.

13.8 billion years. 10 years.

13.8 billion years. 10 years.

LDC denial of basic human nature.

What if a child needs a mommy & a daddy - by their very nature?

Can an LDC-member "scientist" ask this question?

Is the "right" right? Can you ask, as a true honest scientist?

Not easily.

Not and keep your current friend circle.

The Stonewall warriors are there, waiting to POUNCE on anyone who questions their dogma & agenda.

It's a war. And war is no time for science to inconveniently show that the leftist side may be wrong - wrong in ANY way.

Not science.

A betrayal of natural history.

A preference for slow-motion suicide.

A death cult.

Tiny Robots Can Become Humping Lesbians Dreaming of Parthenogenesis

(video link - especially for those using an iphone)

1. Tiny Robots Can Become Humping Lesbians Dreaming of Parthenogenesis

2. Old Fart Liberal Atheists sometimes can create life - Whodathunkit

3. Thanks to those who help us.

4. Speaking the truth.

-------------

Currently obtaining the newer Battlestar Galactica. My wife is very tired of Star Trek TNG. She liked Enterprise better. And DS9 may be way too boring I think though.

We need something much more sexy!

She also likes the Henson's Dinosaurs tv series. Thanks to me the S.L. library has copies in stock again of the latter item.

Hmmm. Farscape was another good one by the general Henson family. But it's a bit too, well, visceral for my wife's taste.

As for BSG, it's worth noting that we're also comprised of little robots of a sort - with apparently emergent properties once you get enough of them together.

Will machines eventually create robots that're more human like?

At present machines called humans naturally & rather easily produce more machines called humans. A uniquely fun, rewarding, & very challenging experience I recommend to those lucky enough to push forward with such an endeavor. Had to go to China to get mine - with the help of a man I met through a now defunct atheist group here who also has a Chinese wife. Worth it though.

Thanks long-time-atheists-in-Utah for that one, the old farts in the atheist community here who have zero to do with the new crowd. I wouldn't have a wife & kid if it weren't for you.

Sometimes the work of liberals does produce a baby. Amazing! Hmmm, I'll have to remember that. Oh, and there's the very nice gay man who helps us when we go on vacation. Yes, by hell that's true. A service oriented guy who spends his life helping others. Ok, thinking of him softens my view a bit perhaps.

Anyway, when the robots realize they're robots in fiction & stories, it's quite an experience for them.

What happens when humans realize the same?

The debate between Sam Harris & Daniel Dennett is one example:

Dennett:
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/reflections-on-free-will

Harris:
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-marionettes-lament

Hey I like Harris when he does debates with theists. BUT on the issue of free will, I'm with Dennett.

IF you know you're made of tiny robots, and you think an MRI machine shows you DON'T have free will, will you be less, well moral? Yes, you will be less moral.

However if you know you're made of tiny robots, BUT you ALSO believe you have a reasonable amount of free will, you will be more moral.

Hmmm.

By extension, belief in the Bible may make you more moral. Quite true. It may also make you less moral, especially during the time of the Spanish Inquisition.

Monty Python on the issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0Y39eMvpI

Monty Python on gay marriage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlzAquNjgsk

The black atheists view:
http://blackatheistsofatlanta.tumblr.com/

----quote begins

Black Atheism vs. White Atheism

Black Atheism has nothing to do with the support or promotion of homosexuality, but White atheism does. Why do White atheists promote and support homosexuality? The answer lies in their European myths (Google Gay Zeus and Ganymede).

Homosexuality was routinely practiced by the Greeks. Their high god Zeus routinely had sexual contact with the mortal called Ganymede the Water Bearer proving that homosexuality and pedophilia was the highest standard of their culture. The ideas, concepts, customs and traditions that went into the making of the deity is a reflection of the culture of the people. Simply put, if you have no problem with homosexuality then you have no problem with deifying that concept into your ideal god.

Africans clearly had a problem with homosexuality because they never based a god around that idea and concept. They never based their culture or gods around that behavior. Another difference between Black Atheism and White Atheism —-White Atheism is based around Darwin and European science and culture. But, Black Atheism is based around the African symbol Khepera (Dung Beatle) and African science and culture. We follow the signs and symbols of African original culture, which clearly understood reproduction and evolution that is verified in the symbol of Khepera in the Nile Valley as early as 56,000 B.C. or earlier (reference Dr. Ben Jochannan and Dr. John Henrick Clarke).

Khepera is one of Africa’s oldest symbols of evolution and reproduction, which predates Darwin by thousands of years. Therefore, we don’t recognize Darwin as being the origin of the theory of evolution. To add, the law of reproduction clearly played out in the fertility figurines of the Black goddesses that you find first in Africa and then all over the world. White Atheists , however, do not acknowledge the law of reproduction. This is due to European science failure to officially recognize that the law of reproduction is the mechanism that causes evolution (gene mutation). Finally, the biggest distinction between Black atheists and White atheists is that we recognize racism and White supremacy.

----quote ends

Fascinating. I wonder how much of their views come from the fact that their ancestors were forced to come to America as slaves? Maybe some. Doesn't mean they aren't right on some points. Oh well, and they're made of tiny robots too.

Hey, if you're made of tiny robots, I suggest you try to make a new collection of tiny robots based on yourself and a friend. And, when our sun becomes 10% hotter causing the oceans to boil off, may I suggest that our distant children either re-engineer the sun or find another place to live.

We don't need to be defeatist narcissists like Lawrence Krauss. Or anally retentive a-holes like P.Z. Myers to represent the "atheist community" or the "atheist movement." But as with any movement you sometimes need a whole bunch of laxative to clear out the turds.

Thanks, Pinker, Dennett, and Hitchens, and the liberal atheist guy who helped introduce me to my wife. Also thanks to the gay guy who helps us go on vacations. Thanks, the Internet, for letting me speak even though some people want me to shut up.

Oh, and thanks Deseret News, you ARE good for something once in a while. Exposing the pedo that my gay nephew was friends with. Hey, if I'm ever friends with my gay nephew again, I'll be sure to tell him about how it was pretty stupid of him to befriend such a man. Live & learn. That's what I say. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Hey, it's human nature. Emergent activities of tiny robots. Whodathunkit.

Can China inherit the Earth? Attention Atheists: Have More Kids!

Ok so anyway, speaking with less of my usual bone dry humor:

Yes I admit it's valuable to hear reactions to my suppositions.

More broadly I'm aware of the suicides directly caused by the Mormon Church with regard to the gay issue, and also at least one suicide connected with masturbation shaming.

So on first glance it's easy for me to be part of the Pride parade.

Damn. If it weren't for my uncle & nephew, I'd be there cheering maybe with my shirt off also, showing off my sexy man boobs to all the participants.

Oh well. Regardless of the opinions of one guy in bass ackward Utardia, humanity will move forward.

More kids. Have more kids. Attention, atheists: the religious are having many more kids than you. The Bible Beaters. The Mormons. The Islam people.

Can China inherit the Earth?

Not so bad of a proposition - in the long term. Communism will hopefully drop away more in the long term. The one child thing will probably eventually drop off.

No Mormonism. No Utah. No Catholicism. No Islam (not much). Light Buddhism. Not so bad. Good old fashioned family values (children first, elder respect, etc).

I'm trying not to step in the shit of Mormonism while also calling attention to a bit of poop I've seen on the other side. Difficult...

Heterosexual Kissing Leads to Life!

In response to hearing that a gay director is going to put his gay dick right into the faces of American families who watch his otherwise quite popular cartoon show "How to Train your Dragon," here's quotes from my thoughts on the issues at hand - as posted in an online forum dealing with exchanges idea & info between Mormons & non/ex-Mormons:

=================

----quote begins of posting 1:

Lame boring inane PC bullshit (such a film / franchise feeling the need to do such a thing).

May be child abuse.

By comparison, IF Mr. Rogers was gay, he should not have revealed that to his toddler audience, period.

My "fellows" on the left would claim that I don't even have a right to such an opinion.

But ultra PC directors feel the need to put gay dicks right in our faces.

Keep your Jesus off my penis cuts both ways.

Which otherwise sinking political/cultural boat can I jump to? Seems like both the leftie and rightie boats have some issues.

Maybe my own boat will float better. We'll see.

----quote begins of posting 2:

In response to someone who claimed we need to view everything as equal, I then wrote:

Hetero kissing leads to life.

Non-hetero leads to the opposite, in many ways, and by default.

Q. Do we need to make gay marriage & sex equal?

A. No. It will never be equal. Not so long as two men and/or two women cannot >naturally< make babies.

The whole concept of pushing for forced equality is incredibly abusive & wrong headed, and indicative of a greater problem with the liberal left.

Why is it harmful to expose children to the "strong possibility" of being gay? Because gayness is far less set in stone than the left will admit. Perhaps a bit more biological in *some* cases than the right will admit. But still, having children sucked into what is essentially a death cult (speaking frankly) is abusive.

Cartoons? Books for 2-9 year olds? Are you (ie: that is, the advocates that gayness be presented as "equal" to children) serious?

What if the presentation of gayness-as-equal to a kid robs them of a life in a normal marriage with kids? What if?

That ain't so bad - so says the liberal. The planet already has too many people already. Hey, the more people that become gay the better.

Now, you have to realize that my observations & views come after a LOT of observations of my own, at MANY liberal leftist social meetings, plus gay bars, plus gay parties, from perhaps 1995 through 2012.

Is exposure to the Stonewall agenda inherently abusive & damaging to children? I maintain it is. And I ain't a Mormon, nor a Catholic.

Rather, I'm a naturalist & science advocate who happens to maintain that 14.5 billion years of evolution, and the development of sexual reproduction with males & females being present counts for something - as it should.

Children sucked into the gay lifestyle may well be robbed of a life which could be more happy & productive.

Liberal heresy.

Oh, I'm just latching on to the beliefs I had in the past. I don't think so. It's not that simple.

Can I channel at least a bit of my wife's views on this issue, and work to intellectually stand up for how humans think who had ZERO exposure to Mormonism, Catholicism, and so on?

Anyway, yes there's gay people & there will continue to be.

I just advocate for the position that gay "marriage," or whatever you want to call it will NEVER be as valuable to humanity as normal straight marriage. That's it.

And comparisons to the banning of interracial marriage is not only a complete and utter non-sequitur, it's abusive and inane to even make such a comparison.

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2010/05/1324/

"...Without the state’s cooperation and enforcement, there would have been no anti-miscegenation laws and there would be no same-sex marriage. The reason for this, writes libertarian economist Jennifer Roback Morse, is that 'marriage between men and women is a pre-political, naturally emerging social institution. Men and women come together to create children, independently of any government.' Hence, this explains its standing as an uncontroversial common law liberty. 'By contrast,' Morse goes on to write, 'same-sex 'marriage' is completely a creation of the state. Same-sex couples cannot have children. Someone must give them a child or at least half the genetic material to create a child. The state must detach the parental rights of the opposite-sex parent and then attach those rights to the second parent of the same-sex couple...'"

Quite so.

---

More apt responses from
http://www.christianpost.com/news/gay-viking-in-how-to-train-your-dragon-2-revealed-i-love-the-idea-says-director-video-119910/

"Seriously? Putting this in a children's movie?" eb wrote on the EOnline blog. "I have absolutely no problem with any homosexual people but the way [it's] pushed down everyone's throats now [it's] getting out of hand."

"My very young kids love this franchise. However, this is not a conversation my wife and I are prepared to have yet. It's immensely frustrating that Hollywood feels complete autonomy to force these issues on our kids," another user agreed.

---

Additional related thoughts:

Family Values Atheism: Questioning liberal dogma -- the Gay Flag: Freaks Welcome Here -- questioning gay marriage -- secular reparative therapy (choosing to live straight)
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/family-values-atheism-questioning.html


----quote ends of posting 2:

After receiving several replies in an online forum, I drafted the following pointed reply:

----quote begins of posting 3:

One million posts. Can't you put your thoughts into a single post. Every point doesn't need to be in a separate post.

I only have two hands.

Were you drunk when you replied? Jonathan Brown?

LGBT rights today. Zoophile & NAMBLA tomorrow.

This JPAC guy does have a point...

























---

I waded through the load of shit you both put out. My goodness - a lot.

I can see why the religious look at the left and say: fuck, I ain't leaving my religion just to join up with those amoral fucks.

Quite so.

They have a good point.

Out of all the liberal smoke blowin', I did see one or two things worth responding to.

"You understand that homosexuality is found in pretty much all species on earth right?"

WGAF.

In "human nature" we also have: Zoophilia. Man-boy "love" (pedophilia). Sociopathy. Psychopathy. Schizophrenia. And so on.

Also, there happens to be biological roots behind whether a person likes Obamacare, or not. Whether they worship Ayn Rand, or not. And so on.

Just because something is natural, doesn't "make it right or useful."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

Human males & females have babies. Marriage is about family & babies.

Hey, put your dick in ALL the assholes in the world, and you will NEVER produce a baby from that act.

Don't like that? Too bad.

If you're a lesbian, you may well dream of parthenogenesis.

Do you cheer when you hear about the supposed decline of the Y chromosome?

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-17127617

http://wi.mit.edu/news/archive/2012/theory-rotting-y-chromosome-dealt-fatal-blow

---

God doesn't hate fags. But evolution by natural selection may have a few concerns about such activities, like it or not.

Liberals do have their heads right up their asses when it comes to equating gay marriage with normal regular long standing 14.5 billion year history marriage.

Right up their fucking asses. So, that's it.

Whoever the hell black atheists are?

Rich gay crackers w/no children commitments (of course!) are invading their neighborhoods & making the housing prices go up. No wonder they're more than a little upset.

Also, and here's the kicker for any liberal dumbshit:

Fully natural human morality exists in religion. In the Bible.

Now, as per my own ref. to the naturalistic fallacy, we do have to be careful. But on the other hand, the highly useful shaming (in some cases) that exists in human CULTURES, the shaming that helps us thrive and survive, some of that shaming IS valuable.

Not everything is equal. The LDC maintains it is.

Good job. In 100 years you may not have left any speck on the Great Mandala. But, in the de facto apparent dreams of all liberals, at least NAMBLA group members and Zoophiles will be able to marry, along with the LGBT crowd.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/787617/posts

NOT so distant a connection as you might think, leftie liberal with your head in the sand.

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/response-to-site-claims-attack-by-lds.html

And again, I fucking like Obamacare. Yes, Ayn Rand was a dumbshit.

BUT, Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist & so on.

So, the Blacks in America who're concerned about this negative abusive part of cracker culture do have a point.

----quote begins of posting 4:

Further:

In response to "14.5 billion years of marriage? Don't think it was your idea of marriage for that long," I replied:

The number has gone up & down a bit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth

13.8 - 4.54 = 9.26 billion just to get our Earth going, with the more rare elements coming from exploded stars.

Another 2 to 3 billion to get sexual reproduction.

60 MYBP (million years before present) for primates

20 MYBP for great apes

2.5 MYBP for the homo genus

200,000 years before present for the first anatomically modern humans

And 10 to 40 years ago for the assumption that gay "marriage" is equal to straight normal regular marriage.

We may as well consider this *assumption* to be a side-effect of how human neural networks can go "right off the rails," as with any religion.

Maybe some day, two vaginas, or two dicks, will produce children.

Hey it happens in other animals, moving back, and speaking generally about asexual reproduction.

Crafty lesbians are finding a way to get sperm into their hoohaws, by hook or by crook. I suppose one can admit that such an action is also "natural," since all actions by humans are by default natural.

Whatever.

I just think there's value in advocacy for honoring long standing history, and with taking a step back.

Completely discounting the shaming propensities that exist in ALL human cultures is a wrong headed & destructive response.

Can liberals accept that children may, ideally, need a mommy & a daddy?

Marry if you want (as a gay). But, don't so easily discount what evolution by natural selection may have instilled into the brain of a child some naive judge may have allowed into your home.

The Atheist Movement needs more laxative - Making room for social & political conservatives!

link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_f6bQjwNQo

 
The Atheist Movement needs more laxative, so as to make room for a wider scope of inclusion.

Social & political moderates & conservatives!

The business of "recovering" from religion is not so easy or simple.

One can foolishly jump from one extreme, to the other.

Until, one day, a person wakes up and realizes what has happened:

Freaks like this are readily accepted into the leftist community.

And, this uncle who grew up in ultra-conservative Manti, Utah - dying of AIDS leaving his straight family with no father. A victim BOTH of Mormonism, and of the opposite side he jumped to in response.

Examples of the dark side of "social justice" advocacy in the atheist (bowel) movement:

Atheism Plus Social Justice Update Pt. 1: The Lulz

http://youtu.be/rtOUWCKBKB8

Atheism Plus Social Justice Update Pt. 2: Feeding the Troll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=711OW6trnAQ

Creepy Clowns: Freethought Bullies and the Threat Narrative Clown Horn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_7SRa_xQNQ

On PZ Myers

http://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/2012/10/17/the-comments-pz-myers-doesnt-want-you-to-see/

On elevatorgate:

https://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/tag/elevatorgate/

and

http://revolutionaryatheist.tumblr.com/post/49553395619/elevatorgate-everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-

Some preliminary responses:

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminism-and-the-disposable-male/

My own thoughts:

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/humanist

and

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/left

and

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/recovery-from-atheists-of-utah.html

My angel reading convicted pedophile friend accepting nephew is a victim also, of all sides, both of Mormonism's extreme harshness regarding boys who're perhaps a bit more effeminate & who masturbate, plus his father's harshness on such issues, and the opposite end cesspool.

Related posts:

Recovery from Atheists of Utah
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/recovery-from-atheists-of-utah.html

Advice for Social Conservatives & Moderates, from a Family Values Atheist
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/advice-for-social-conservatives.html

Advice for Social Conservatives & Moderates, from a Family Values Atheist

On social issues, groups of scientists, atheism, and the atheist movement are still religions.

Dogma.

Doctrine.

Unquestionable dogma & doctrine.

Heresy & excommunication trials.

These are a few of religion's favorite things.

Humans are not a tabula rasa (a blank slate).

Here is some general advise for the religious & social right & middle:

1. Put more of your energy into searching for secular arguments to back up the otherwise good & valuable human morality that exists with your cultures.

2. Be less harsh & abusive where necessary.

3. Admit that on the "god" front (including on evolution), the intellectual argument has mostly gone to the side of the left.

4. Many of the moral arguments you make do have value - when made a bit less harsh.

Daniel Dennett's dangerous idea: Religion is a natural phenomenon. This fact cuts both ways. Fully natural, normal, valuable, and useful human morality can and does exist within religious frameworks. A damn hard thing for a liberal to admit! In fact many liberals are in active denial.

It's no wonder that Steven Pinker has commented about the modern denial of human nature, in his book The Blank Slate.

The left IS in denial, just as the right has been about god & evolution.

Yes we ARE animals, with BUILT IN morals, AND some damn good reasons for ascribing shame (yes shame!) to certain otherwise descructive human behaviors.

I remember when Sam Harris made note of how the right's view on Islam was more correct than the secular left. The secular left is in denial about Islam.

I remember when Steven Pinker made note of how the left & right are both in denial about human nature.

I remember when Christopher Hitchens made not of how the left was in denial about Islam and both the right & left about Mother Theressa.

I remember when Daniel Dennett stated "Dennett's Dangerous Idea" (thanks go to me for coining this if no one else has to date!), that: Religion is a natural phoenomenon. Again, this apparent fact cuts both ways. Very inconventient for the social agenda of assholes like P.Z. Myers and the like. The fundie left.

Hey, when I listened to the talk of the following guy, he does mention the tabula rasa issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfHTNt4ELwY

Hmmm.

Here's additional articles I found, debates, & discussions:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/2011/03/22/homophobia-phobia-bad-science-or-bad-science-comprehension/

http://www.albany.edu/psychology/files/Gallup_Vita.pdf

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0162309594000286

http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/ensold/article/0162-3095%2896%2900042-8/abstract

Why all the gay stuff? Because the left worships homosexuality as the pinnacle of liberal sex. No kids. "Cha-ching" they say - "we're helping the environment!" Automatic birth control. Perfect liberal sex. Also perfect liberal marriage.

People trying to "recover" from conservative religion can be and are easily sucked into the abusive fundamentalism of the left.

For example: Atheists of Utah - in my view a fundamentalist religion of the left. Doctrines. Dogmas. Unquestionable paradigms. An ultra-leftist social agenda. Voted by Q Salt Lake as the best religion, and a runner up to being the best social group.

But where's the regular straight families? Where's the children? Where's the people who value good old fashioned healthy happy useful family values? They're actively excluded. They MUST be, because politically correct leftist dogmatism is their core religion.

Boozer parties where high alchohol content liquor is raffled off.

Beer drinking meetups on a more frequent basis.

But not much pro-kid stuff.

Leadership straight from the local branch of Stonewall.

Nominated by Q Salt Lake as being the pinnacle of religions & the near pinnacle of social groups.

But again being at that pinnacle is not all it's cracked up to be.

Not only does the conservative emperor have no clothes (eg: Joseph Smith), the liberal emperer has none also (eg: "gay culture"). The latter group are happy about that though, with their constant posting of near-naked photos of themselves on facebook.

Hey, I've seen it all first hand. I've seen the ultra-right AND the ultra-left. Unlike your average muff mouthed muff brained liberal, I've done in depth research into BOTH "ultra" sides. And here's what I've found: BOTH SIDES are nearly equally abusive!

It's sad that scientists claim they're being objective when they're not - on social issues.

They're ok with being mostly-objective when it comes to far off things like planets, or far distant in history things like dinosaurs. BUT, question their ultra-leftist social agenda on things like marriage & family, and by fuck they will revert to the new-ultra-dogmatic-religion-of-the-left as quick as a bat out of hell. Two seconds. Maybe one

"Yes, here on the high pillars of academia, we poo poo and laugh at the poor middle & right leaning religionists, with their views on the existence of god & evolution. BUT, question our social views and we'll quickly show you just how religious WE ARE as scientists - so-called scientists who refuse to be scientists when it comes to social issues."

So, yes, Mr. & Mrs. Conservative, you ARE right to conclude that groups of scientists, AND atheist groups, AND secular groups, most such groups are religions - dogmatic religions of the left.

----------

Both sides, right & left, poison of the well of reasonable discussion regarding natural normal good valuable useful human morality.

Jumping from one extreme to the other is no solution.

Honesty is the answer! Both to dogmatism on the right & the left.

Related posts:

Recovery from Atheists of Utah
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/recovery-from-atheists-of-utah.html

The Atheist Movement needs move laxative - Making room for social & political conservatives!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-atheist-movement-needs-move.html

Recovery from Atheists of Utah

Thoughts on recovery from Atheists of Utah, and similar "secular," "humanist," and "naturalist" groups.

A new religion is born, and as with all religion there are de facto elders, priests, doctrines, dogmas, belief maintenance, heresy trials, and excommunications. With the new religion of atheism things are a bit more subtle, but not by much.

Recently in the very exclusive ultra-leftist-atheists-only closed facebook group for A of U I had the audacity to state that I thought Duck Dynasty was provocative, useful, and mostly ok. That was heresy for the group leader.

Here's an expanded version of a response I posted in their closed exclusive de facto ultra-leftie-atheist group:

You're already well on your way to becoming an anti-normal-family religion.

Here's one recent example of the leftist hatred for the normal productive family:

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/stfu

The common stance of your membership falls along similar lines to the STFU-Parents-woman who'd prefer that normal families just shut up about the joys of having children.

In response to my expression of appreciation for Duck Dynasty, your group has given religious responses thus far, straight from the latest human religion.

Belief maintenance. Heresy trials. 

I don't wish to belong to the religion of atheism plus or similar dogmatic faiths.

The founder of your church hooked up with a pro-life atheist and had a kid with her. But she was never welcome at SLVA (Salt Lake Valley Atheists) because of her views. SLVA was decidedly pro-ultra-left.

The fruit of the founder's outreach work has resulted in an ultra-Stonewall focus for your group. That's just the way it is. But it's a bit ironic that the founder of A of U ended up having a kid with a woman forcibly excluded from SLVA because of her social conservative views.

Hmmm. As the world (or stomach) turns. I would have expected better, but it's all rather par for the course in the long history of human religion.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled mirrored echo chamber of unquestioned newly dominant paradigms.

Is the judgement of the church court in now? Sounds like it may be.

Yes I like Duck Dynasty. 

Heresy for A of U.

If you want to have a discussion that's one thing. But if you're just a priest of a church, who pulls every tool out for discounting an argument other than possibly reasonable ones, then I'm not particularly obliged to respond - any more than I am to the leader of any other religion.

---

Atheists of Utah was recently named the "best Religious Group" and a runner up for the Best Social Group, as awarded by Q Salt Lake. Apt & appropriate awards. But being at the pinnacle of appreciation for the ultra-left is not all it's cracked up to be. An ultra-leftist cult. That's what Atheists of Utah has become in my view - and so I don't wish to be a member.

Were a group to be founded to help people recover from this new destructive cult of the left, here's draft short & long descriptions for such a hopeful recovery group:

Short description:

At Recovery from Atheists of Utah we help you recover from recovery from religion, particularly the religion known as Atheists of Utah.

Long description:

Did you leave one cult just to find you'd jumped right into another? Atheists claim their beliefs are falsifiable - unless you question the social-agenda aspects of their views. THEN the de facto heresy & excommunication trials begin.

Here at Recovery from Atheists of Utah we recover from the ultra-leftist side of atheism. The extreme-cultist left. Yes the right has their problems, but the left can be just as dogmatic and abusive.

An open exchange of ideas is welcome here. We don't resort to unwarranted name-calling as a means of shutting people up or belief maintenance!

Humans have in and out group morality.

Our in group morality is expanding, and that's a good thing.

But human nature DOES naturally include shaming for certain activities which are otherwise destructive. A damn hard thing for an ex-conservative religionist to realize is that SOME of that shaming actually is a damn good thing for the future of humanity.

Speaking the truth. Liberal cultists don't like it any more than conservative cultists do.

We didn't leave one religion just to join another.

Atheists of Utah, in the view of the author of this description, has become a leftist cult. Just as abusive as cults on the right.

But it's worse in my view: It's a part of the LDC - the Liberal Death Cult, a cult which does not value life & survival - again in the view of the author.

Does this description go too far? Maybe. My beliefs may be falsifiable. I'm willing to listen to evidence. They however, apparently, are not.

Recover from the dogmatism of the left. Avoid politically correct destructive whirlpools of consensus, mirrored echo chambers, and unquestioned newly-dominant paradigms.

Does the right have a point, at least on some issues? It's heresy amongst liberals to say: YES!

But again, we didn't leave one fucking cult just to join another.

Recover, from Atheists of Utah, and similar destructive leftist cults. How? Through honesty, and avoiding affiliation with all de-facto ultra-leftist new-cults. Cults & religions, on the left & the right. We need to find a new way to be human than these petty shallow infantile first-attempts: Through science, honesty, honest history, and being willing to listen to ALL sides.

Does the other side have a point? For example, the guys on Duck Dynasty? What if they do? What if the right is right on at least some points? Heresy, heresy, heresy to admit this. But the LDC is stuck in their own narcissistic hole.

These are all the views of the author - after a lot of observation & seeing what happens on all sides - PLUS after taking a step back from America and seeing what happens in other countries. Come to find out social-conservatvism, aspects of it, DOES actually help humanity survive, thrive, and be happy. Whodathunkit?

The TBMs (True Believing Mormons) don't like my blog. AND the TBULAs (True Believing Ultra Liberal Atheists) don't like it either. Maybe that means I'm making progress!

It's also worth noting that we may need recovery from the Exmoron Foundation. That's another story.

---

Related blog posts:

The Atheist Movement needs move laxative - Making room for social & political conservatives!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-atheist-movement-needs-move.html

Advice for Social Conservatives & Moderates, from a Family Values Atheist
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/advice-for-social-conservatives.html

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/atheism
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/homosexuality