My response to the Croppertology cult which stole away two nieces and one nephew, away into an apparent & perceived Mormon splinter micro-cult. All three changed their first names, and they all changed their last names to match that of the cult leader.
Above: Bitchute video link: https://www.bitchute.com/video/vIGmVMBCfHRU/ Youtube mirror: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9KIe_pMS_U
Cult leader:
Camille Sebrina Cropper of Logan, Utah
...from what I can tell based on online research.
Cult member names:
Madelyn Higbee original name.
Maline Johanna Cropper cult member name.
John David Higbee original name.
Paul Michael Cropper cult member name.
Janessa Rose Higbee original name.
Elisabeth Joan Cropper cult member name.
Why did these three all change their names?
Yes Mormonism is abusive in its own right, but good grief one can leave Mormonism without having to fully cut yourself off from every single person in your family.
Cult is as cult does. Those who do cult like behavior are cultists.
Additional commentary regarding the abusive nature of the Mormon Church, specifically regarding Bishop led interrogations of children and adults regarding sexual matters. Behind closed doors, strange men interrogate children regarding whacking off.
It took me many years to recover from Mormonism and during those years I was an angry ultra-leftist reactionary.
Now I'm an evolutionary social conservative, but I will identify and call out abuse on all sides.
To the Cropper Cult Three, my blood kin, I say:
Your father is very frail now. After several heart attacks he is a whisper of a man. Your parents think of you every day, and your new assumed names mixed with your total disconnection from any of your family, well, you've gone too far with your cultistic craziness.
I am bunt in my vid. I'm not a fan of cults of any flavor. This vid is long overdue.
The Mormon Church is a pornographic church.
Joseph Smith had a 14 year old wife plus he had sex with women who were still legally married to other men (his plural "wives").
Brigham Young, ditto with a 15 year old, and also ditto re the wives of other men.
Mormon Prophet Spencer Kimball wrote the evil book "Miracle Forgiveness" which claims that whacking off will make one a faggyfag.
This lie, probably drove Many to be angry reactionaries including many "Pride" attendees as such.
Kimball also produced a January 1982 letter stating that oral sex is not ordained of the Mormon god.
Plus advanced Mormon doctrine states that God the Father, Elohim, had literal sex with Mary the mother of Jesus. Next that Elohim has many wives in heaven, whom he has sex with with create spirit babies for worlds without end. Thus Joseph Smith and his cohorts dreamt up a sex-crazed ramptant orgy type of heaven for themselves to live in. And thus, Mormonism is an Abusively pornographic church at its core. Utterly hypocritical.
When I was an ultra-leftist virgin living in mommy's basement, yes I used porn some. But frankly my porn use drove me to want real in person interactions.
Now I am a father with kids, and a family man, and I have mostly no use for commercialized porn. Yes porn does hijack. Yes kids should be protected from it. Yes humans have evolved hidden sexuality. That's all fine.
But hypocritical Mormons should not go around preaching to others about porn, while still believing that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or Spencer Kimball were in any way prophets of a god.
To Madelyn, John David, and Janessa I say:
Whatever your parents did, that doesn't warrant cutting yourself off totally from all of your family, or even from your parents now that they're becomming increasingly frail.
Your father is now a more humble man, and he's been very kind to my family.
This "cut," these "cuts" of yours to people who don't mean you harm per se, is immoral.
And yes leaving people stuck in cults is immoral too. Thus, leave the Croppertology cult I advise you.
----
Keywords:
Madelyn Higbee, Maline Johanna Cropper, Maline Cropper, John David Higbee, John Higbee, Paul Michael Cropper, Paul Cropper, Janessa Rose Higbee, Janessa Higbee, Croppertology, cropper, cult, mormon, lds, utah, logan, Elisabeth Joan Cropper, Elisabeth Cropper, Camille Sabrina Cropper, Camille Cropper, bishop, child abuse, sexual abuse, porn, masturbation, coming of age, interviews
Showing posts with label cult. Show all posts
Showing posts with label cult. Show all posts
Wednesday, March 4, 2020
Tuesday, November 19, 2019
Postmodernism births sterile wastrels. Choose life instead.
Postmodernism births sterile wastrels. Choose life instead.
Postmodernism (and racist eugenicist Margaret Sanger's birth control pill): Helps females become fat pigs. Next, overly attractive males have no females to hook up with. And thus, the Stonewall LGBTQPZ project was born: a place for abused abusive wastrels to go, so as to engage in mutual wankery to no good effect, other than some nice art perhaps, but zero kids born into best-for-the-kids settings.
Lives derailed. Lives destroyed.
Yes, it's true, wankery in and of itself won't make you a LGBTQPZ. For the Mormons & Ex-Mormons in my feed: Mormon Prophet Spencer Kimball's claim that wankery will may you a sexual invert (i.e. a g,a,y), which was taught textually AND verbally in the Mormon (LDS) Church, yes that's not correct. And mandatory sexually explicit interviews of children and adults absolutely drives some of those people to be angry reactionaries when they get older or become more mature. All abusive Mormon she'at which other flavors of Christianity don't do (e.g. Evangelical and other protestant).
But the ultra left is not a panacea answer to the abuses of sections of the ultra right.
Oh, yes, as an ex-religionist, you can be so angry angry angry, with religion in general. But, we being evolutionary animals with emergent properties, happen to couch our evolved morals within religious contexts. Religions are evolutionary artifacts and engines themselves.
The (French) bullshit postmodernist ideology, derails the lives of many.
Gender is binary in the human animal.
Yes, children need a mother and a father, for their own best evolved and natural well being.
Gender is not changeable in the human animal.
There's no such thing as "gender identity," just moronic and stupid and abusive gender dysphoria.
Secular people can have bad dumbshit memes running on their brains, too.
Thus, to be a conservative, means you want to conserve things. Today being a conservative means conserving free speech. Conserving British Western Enlightenment values. Conserving the American project is the best example of those values. Universal slavery, ended. Science and human knowledge, advanced. True free speech, present, something not as fully present in any other country or community. The ability to fry sacred cows, yes, that's included. But let's not toss the baby of evolved morality out with the bathwater of mysticism. And I agree with Jordan Peterson that even the mystical stores have evolved natural good utilitarian value.
Social conservatism is the >default< useful natural evolved position, because that position promotes live, preserves life, and continues life. Ok let's call out abuses, but let's also value what should be valued.
Sincerely,
Jonathan
Wednesday, May 30, 2018
Recoverying from cults on the right and the left
Ok regarding meme sets called cults, I've been a member of more than one:
1st: The Mormon meme set. Still a cult, with a slow trajectory toward being less cult like. Founded by two polygamists who had a.) underage wives (this is called: pedophilia & child rape), and b.) wives who were still married to other men (this is called: adultery).
The Mo Church dumped polygamy, which was good, but splinter groups who also worship Joseph Smith continue the practice. I've toured first hand polygamous cities in & near Utah. And we've been bowling next to a gaggle of polygamous women & a few of their kids. I also see them at grocery stores near me on occasion. Splinter group Mormons.
In more recent years the Mo Church decided to micro-manage the sex lives of their members. In 1982 Prophet of God Spencer Kimball issued a directive stating that oral sex was not approved of god. Think about the content and procedure of such a letter going out to Mormon members. Consider very carfully the impact on the lives of regular people of such a directive.
Next Spencer Kimball told the youth of the church that masturbation could easily turn them into homosexuals. He also stated that >mandatory< interviews regarding masturbation were >required< with Mormon bishops. Such interviews were also common at the Mormon Missionary Training Center.
Consider very carefully the impact on people's lives of such misinformation & abuse.
Now, Kimball's lying abusive book Miracle of Forgiveness (oxymoron title) was recently removed from the Mo church distribution centers, after being present there in multiple languages. This happened with the past 5 years or so. But before about 5 years ago, this crap book was again in multiple languages, and given to young people & adults as required reading: https://archive.org/stream/MiracleOfForgiveness/MoF_djvu.txt
So, the dumping of Miracle of Forgiveness from the Mo Church distribution centers (the stores members go to buy religious study materials directly from the church), well that's a move in the non-cult direction.
But, and this is a huge point, the interrogations of young people & adults regarding sexual matters continues. Thus, still a cult.
If you question the leaders you are blocked from access to the temples of the church, and you might be put in trial and booted from the church. Thus, still a cult.
Some members will still threaten you personally if you publicly question church teachings and church leadership. Thus, still a cult.
There is still incredibly strong social pressure to >never< question what the top leaders say. Thus, still a cult.
2nd: The cult of cultural leftism, which I much later leaned results from cultural neomarxist postmodernism. The cultural left denies science & reason & evidence & human nature every day & all the time.
Was Margaret Sanger a eugenicist? Yes she was.
Do children absolutely require, for their own well being, a mother AND a father? Yes, for concrete and proven evolutionary reasons.
Does the birth control pill alter, in bad and dangerous ways, the mental health and mate preferences of human females? Yes.
Should a mother, ideally and if at all possible, stay home with her children for as long as possible, for the best well being of the children? Yes.
Are women paid less than men for equal work? No.
Is there systemic racism in America? No, and there's hasn't been any such for many years now.
Are humans a gender binary species? Yes.
Is capitalism & full free speech the best ways for humans to thrive best? Yes.
Did Karl Marx fundamentally misunderstand human nature? Yes. Do all socialist / communist / Marxist systems eventually fail? Yes. Are they human spirit destroying Ponzi schemes? Yes.
Is monogamy the best way for humans to mate & have kids, a system which is best both for female & male & children well being? Yes.
Do religions couch evolved morality & evolved traits? Yes.
What are the leftist answers to all the above? Pretty much exactly the opposite of what the facts & our own evolved natures show. Thus on point after point, the cultural left, is a fraking cult.
Masturbation doesn't make you a homosexual as was claimed by Spencer Kimball, although telling kids it easily can or will does unfortunately generate many ultra-leftist angry reactionaries who end up in the other-cult known as Stonewall & "Pride." But, when you're of dating age and especially when above the age of 21, directing your sexual energies toward inherent reproduction is a strategy for success.
I spent many years as an ultra-leftist reactionary. A ping pong game from ultra-right to ultra-left. From one cult to another.
A few of my nephews & nieces (and an uncle) weren't unscathed from the abuses of the ultra-left. And frankly those who were hobbled (& killed) were victims of BOTH the ultra-right AND the ultra-left. A reactionary pingpong game.
Yes people deserve to know the truth. Are you being held back by entrenched dogma & doctrines? A dogma is a premise which cannot be questioned by definition.
Yes we can question whether cultural neomarxist postmodernism is a cult and comprises a set of lies or not. Yes we can question human nature. We can question whether scientific propositions are true or not.
Joseph Smith was a charlatan, but there's a great deal of charlatanry going on on the cultural left also, charlatanry with far wider abusive scope than the influence of the itty bitty religion of Mormonism.
1st: The Mormon meme set. Still a cult, with a slow trajectory toward being less cult like. Founded by two polygamists who had a.) underage wives (this is called: pedophilia & child rape), and b.) wives who were still married to other men (this is called: adultery).
The Mo Church dumped polygamy, which was good, but splinter groups who also worship Joseph Smith continue the practice. I've toured first hand polygamous cities in & near Utah. And we've been bowling next to a gaggle of polygamous women & a few of their kids. I also see them at grocery stores near me on occasion. Splinter group Mormons.
In more recent years the Mo Church decided to micro-manage the sex lives of their members. In 1982 Prophet of God Spencer Kimball issued a directive stating that oral sex was not approved of god. Think about the content and procedure of such a letter going out to Mormon members. Consider very carfully the impact on the lives of regular people of such a directive.
Next Spencer Kimball told the youth of the church that masturbation could easily turn them into homosexuals. He also stated that >mandatory< interviews regarding masturbation were >required< with Mormon bishops. Such interviews were also common at the Mormon Missionary Training Center.
Consider very carefully the impact on people's lives of such misinformation & abuse.
Now, Kimball's lying abusive book Miracle of Forgiveness (oxymoron title) was recently removed from the Mo church distribution centers, after being present there in multiple languages. This happened with the past 5 years or so. But before about 5 years ago, this crap book was again in multiple languages, and given to young people & adults as required reading: https://archive.org/stream/MiracleOfForgiveness/MoF_djvu.txt
So, the dumping of Miracle of Forgiveness from the Mo Church distribution centers (the stores members go to buy religious study materials directly from the church), well that's a move in the non-cult direction.
But, and this is a huge point, the interrogations of young people & adults regarding sexual matters continues. Thus, still a cult.
If you question the leaders you are blocked from access to the temples of the church, and you might be put in trial and booted from the church. Thus, still a cult.
Some members will still threaten you personally if you publicly question church teachings and church leadership. Thus, still a cult.
There is still incredibly strong social pressure to >never< question what the top leaders say. Thus, still a cult.
2nd: The cult of cultural leftism, which I much later leaned results from cultural neomarxist postmodernism. The cultural left denies science & reason & evidence & human nature every day & all the time.
Was Margaret Sanger a eugenicist? Yes she was.
Do children absolutely require, for their own well being, a mother AND a father? Yes, for concrete and proven evolutionary reasons.
Does the birth control pill alter, in bad and dangerous ways, the mental health and mate preferences of human females? Yes.
Should a mother, ideally and if at all possible, stay home with her children for as long as possible, for the best well being of the children? Yes.
Are women paid less than men for equal work? No.
Is there systemic racism in America? No, and there's hasn't been any such for many years now.
Are humans a gender binary species? Yes.
Is capitalism & full free speech the best ways for humans to thrive best? Yes.
Did Karl Marx fundamentally misunderstand human nature? Yes. Do all socialist / communist / Marxist systems eventually fail? Yes. Are they human spirit destroying Ponzi schemes? Yes.
Is monogamy the best way for humans to mate & have kids, a system which is best both for female & male & children well being? Yes.
Do religions couch evolved morality & evolved traits? Yes.
What are the leftist answers to all the above? Pretty much exactly the opposite of what the facts & our own evolved natures show. Thus on point after point, the cultural left, is a fraking cult.
Masturbation doesn't make you a homosexual as was claimed by Spencer Kimball, although telling kids it easily can or will does unfortunately generate many ultra-leftist angry reactionaries who end up in the other-cult known as Stonewall & "Pride." But, when you're of dating age and especially when above the age of 21, directing your sexual energies toward inherent reproduction is a strategy for success.
I spent many years as an ultra-leftist reactionary. A ping pong game from ultra-right to ultra-left. From one cult to another.
A few of my nephews & nieces (and an uncle) weren't unscathed from the abuses of the ultra-left. And frankly those who were hobbled (& killed) were victims of BOTH the ultra-right AND the ultra-left. A reactionary pingpong game.
Yes people deserve to know the truth. Are you being held back by entrenched dogma & doctrines? A dogma is a premise which cannot be questioned by definition.
Yes we can question whether cultural neomarxist postmodernism is a cult and comprises a set of lies or not. Yes we can question human nature. We can question whether scientific propositions are true or not.
Joseph Smith was a charlatan, but there's a great deal of charlatanry going on on the cultural left also, charlatanry with far wider abusive scope than the influence of the itty bitty religion of Mormonism.
Friday, January 8, 2016
Dalia Mogahed is an abusive Puritan and cult member
In my view Dalia Mogahed is an abusive Puritan and cult member. Advocates for the hijab / niqab / burqa are basically Puritans. Liberals just hate Christian-originated Puritanism, but they love Puritanism which emanates from any flavor of Islam (eg: the widespread worldwide Saudi-funded & CAIR supported version), or when it comes via any idea that counters or casts doubt on any aspect of the dominant leftie paradigm.
Video interview of Dalia Mogahed on the Daily Show:
short url: http://on.cc.com/1RnSWKp
longer: http://www.cc.com/shows/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah/interviews/lnkifi/exclusive-dalia-mogahed-extended-interview?xrs=synd_FBPAGE_20160108_326082216_The%20Daily%20Show_N/A&linkId=20219197
Response to the following point made by Dalia Mogahed:
Video interview of Dalia Mogahed on the Daily Show:
short url: http://on.cc.com/1RnSWKp
longer: http://www.cc.com/shows/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah/interviews/lnkifi/exclusive-dalia-mogahed-extended-interview?xrs=synd_FBPAGE_20160108_326082216_The%20Daily%20Show_N/A&linkId=20219197
Response to the following point made by Dalia Mogahed:
---quote begins
What a Hijab does is it basically privatizes a woman's sexuality.
So what are we saying when we say that by taking away or privatizing a woman's sexuality, we're oppressing her? What is that saying about the source of a woman's power [in the media]?
---end of quote
My response:
13.8 billion years of evolution by natural selection has not "selected for" a privatization of female human sexuality.
Maryam Namazie's response to the hijab, a most excellent response!:
Maryam Namazie's response to the hijab, a most excellent response!:
World hijab day - as celebrated by Maryam Namazie, the way the day should be celebrated (ie: without a hijab):
http://web.archive.org/web/20150906062424im_/http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/files/2013/02/maryam.jpgfrom http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2013/02/01/world-hejab-day/
In my view Dalia Mogahed is simply a member of an abusive human spirit destroying cult.
Women within Islam are not free to go without the hijab, even in Western countries:
Why is Puritanism ok when it's expressed by a Muslim woman who's in a hijab, but not ok when it's expressed by a conservative Christian?
Puritianism is abusive in it's own right, whether that Puritanism is expressed by someone like Dalia Mogahed, or whether it's expressed by past Mormon prophet Spencer Kimball or by John Harvey Kellogg.
Maajid Nawaz, a near lone truly-liberal Muslim voice, on the hijab:
Quote: "...Even when adopted through individual choice, it is the religious-conservative assumption, this modesty theology, that women who do not wear headscarves are somehow sinful, less modest and not pious, that we liberals must critique. For at the root, it is this same attitude that is invoked in honor killings, and heinous acid attacks..."
Women in Iran who sneak & go without the scarf:
The hijab is abusive, abusive for exactly the same reasons why Puritanism in general is abusive: It/they attempts to warp human sexuality into something it is not by default and by (evolutionary) design: hidden.
Because their are Islam-run countries which force women to hijab, and because mosques worldwide force women to wear it, it's abusive. It's also abusive because it separates men & women into an inherently abusive and unnatural state & relationship status.
Women should be showing their hair & necks, in public, to men & to other women. Period. And if you see value in "privatizing" the normal natural healthy human sexuality expressed via women's hair, necks, and faces, you are an abuser. And if you're a cult member who believes there's value in such covering, you are an abuser.
More on Dalia from Sam Harris:
As a Muslim woman, I see the veil as a rejection of progressive values Yasmin Alibhai-Brown
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/20/muslim-woman-veil-hijab
The science of swearing, by Steven Pinker:
http://harvardsciencereview.com/2014/01/23/the-science-of-swearing/
...relates in my view to how some humans also don't enjoy "sexual system" activation in their brains, not-at-all!
Tawfik Hamid talking about how Puritanical Islam fucks up the brains of young Muslim men:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxfo11A7XuA
Why do desert tribes hate sexual system activation? Clothes on humans may well be natural. Otherwise abusive body mutilations humans engage in within various "aboriginal" "native" tribes (eg: male & female genital cutting aka circumcision) may also be "natural." Religions are natural. But not everything that's natural is good nor do all natural things make humans happy generally nor cause them to thrive.
In any case puritanism is abusive regardless of it's source, whether that source is Islam, Islamophiles, lefties who love Islam & the hijab, your local Saudi-funded mosque which forces women to be segregated and to hijab, or Mormonism, or Catholicism, or etc.
Somewhere between letting it all hang out and hanging people for doing so is where humans are happiest and thrive the most. But the hijab is more on the hanging-people side of things than any other.
Related post:
whitewashing history -- sex obsessed ancestors -- nudist hypocrisy
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/09/whitewashing-history-sex-obsessed.html
Tuesday, February 10, 2015
And the worst of these is Islam: Foolish bleeding hearts helped birth Islamic State
Foolish naivety leads bleeding hearts to venture into Syria, while other naive leftist bleeding hearts want out of Iraq.
When these two leftie forces come together, a "perfect jihadist synergistic storm" called Islamic State is born, and it happily & easily grinds up the naive bleeding hearts which helped birth it.
US Islamic State hostage Kayla Mueller confirmed dead
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31375445
I do not doubt that the work of the woman noted in the news story was "noble" in it's own way, but it was also very foolish.
Islamic State (aka Islam) doesn't care about how much you care for others. You are kafir (a non-believer / apostate) to them, and that's it.
The left helped birth Islamic State, out of foolish naivety, and a desire to just "get out" "get out" of Iraq.
The response of the left to 9/11 was to embrace the religion of the attackers, and to invite humans whose brains are tied down by the cult of Islam into our borders en masse. Then when the cult members come to America and Europe, the left does *nothing* to help free these humans from the cult they belong to. Instead they set up legal protections to limit free speech & free thought which might rock the Islamic boat.
Jim Jones
David Koresh
L. Ron Hubbard
Joseph Smith
Mohamed
Cult leaders all. And the worst of these is Mohamed who birthed Islam. More destructive & dangerous. More destructive to the human spirit.
When these two leftie forces come together, a "perfect jihadist synergistic storm" called Islamic State is born, and it happily & easily grinds up the naive bleeding hearts which helped birth it.
US Islamic State hostage Kayla Mueller confirmed dead
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31375445
I do not doubt that the work of the woman noted in the news story was "noble" in it's own way, but it was also very foolish.
Islamic State (aka Islam) doesn't care about how much you care for others. You are kafir (a non-believer / apostate) to them, and that's it.
The left helped birth Islamic State, out of foolish naivety, and a desire to just "get out" "get out" of Iraq.
The response of the left to 9/11 was to embrace the religion of the attackers, and to invite humans whose brains are tied down by the cult of Islam into our borders en masse. Then when the cult members come to America and Europe, the left does *nothing* to help free these humans from the cult they belong to. Instead they set up legal protections to limit free speech & free thought which might rock the Islamic boat.
Jim Jones
David Koresh
L. Ron Hubbard
Joseph Smith
Mohamed
Cult leaders all. And the worst of these is Mohamed who birthed Islam. More destructive & dangerous. More destructive to the human spirit.
Sunday, February 8, 2015
Creeping Sharia in Limerick, Ireland: censorship by the Limerick Leader
Free speech, and therefore free thought, appears to be dead in Limerick, Ireland.
Creeping Sharia?
Sharia in fact.
In response to the following news article I posted an apt response. That response was then censored.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/limerick-school-apologises-for-upset-over-charlie-hebdo-1-6564147
-------------------------------------
Dear Jonathan Higbee,
We have removed your post from community.limerickleader.ie for hate speech, which is a violation of the Terms of Service. Please note we will remove any profiles that continue to breach these terms which can be found at http://www.johnstonpress.co.uk/terms-access-website. Please note that even if your comment is in response to another violation of the guidelines, it will be removed if found to be abusive. Since the moderation system in place is abuse-based, we will not be made aware of comments that violate the Terms of Service unless they are reported for abuse.
Comment Removed:
In Response to Limerick school apologises for upset over Charlie Hebdo
"Creeping sharia, in the minds of the pseudo-liberals on the cultural left - turning them all into new-fascists.
Apology for the murder of artists, and for censorship of art artists were just barely murdered for.
Conflating religion with race, and race with being human. Doublespeak. Belief maintenance. Heresy trials.. Excommunication. All these things happen within the de facto fascist cult religion of the new left today.
Jim Jones.
David Koresh.
L. Ron Hubbard.
Joseph Smith.
Mohamed.
Charismatic charlatans all. Abusive cult leaders. But the WORST of these is Mohamed.
Additional related thoughts:
Leftist religion loves Islam and hates the West and the fruits of the Enlightenment
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/01/leftist-religion-loves-islam-and-hates.html"
Moderation Team
Johnston Press plc Registered in Scotland no. SC015382
Registered Office:Orchard Brae House, 30 Queensferry Road, Edinburgh EH4 2HS
Opinions expressed in this email are those of the writer and not the company.
E-mail traffic is monitored within Johnston Press and messages may be viewed.
This e-mail and any files with it are solely for the use of the addressee(s).
If you are not the intended recipient, you have received this e-mail in error.
Please delete it or return it to the sender or notify us by email at
postmaster@jpress.co.uk
----------- end of quote
Here's a response I just posted on their site, a response which may also be censored:
Creeping sharia? Sharia in fact.
Free speech, and therefore free thought, and the ability to be an intellectually and emotionally honest human being is dead in Limerick.
Thank goodness your little speck on the Internet cannot control what happens nowadays. The editors and operators of this site are partners in abuse. Child abuse. Adult abuse. The abuse that comes directly from life within a cult.
Creeping Sharia?
Sharia in fact.
In response to the following news article I posted an apt response. That response was then censored.
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/business-news/limerick-school-apologises-for-upset-over-charlie-hebdo-1-6564147
-------------------------------------
Dear Jonathan Higbee,
We have removed your post from community.limerickleader.ie for hate speech, which is a violation of the Terms of Service. Please note we will remove any profiles that continue to breach these terms which can be found at http://www.johnstonpress.co.uk/terms-access-website. Please note that even if your comment is in response to another violation of the guidelines, it will be removed if found to be abusive. Since the moderation system in place is abuse-based, we will not be made aware of comments that violate the Terms of Service unless they are reported for abuse.
Comment Removed:
In Response to Limerick school apologises for upset over Charlie Hebdo
"Creeping sharia, in the minds of the pseudo-liberals on the cultural left - turning them all into new-fascists.
Apology for the murder of artists, and for censorship of art artists were just barely murdered for.
Conflating religion with race, and race with being human. Doublespeak. Belief maintenance. Heresy trials.. Excommunication. All these things happen within the de facto fascist cult religion of the new left today.
Jim Jones.
David Koresh.
L. Ron Hubbard.
Joseph Smith.
Mohamed.
Charismatic charlatans all. Abusive cult leaders. But the WORST of these is Mohamed.
Additional related thoughts:
Leftist religion loves Islam and hates the West and the fruits of the Enlightenment
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/01/leftist-religion-loves-islam-and-hates.html"
Moderation Team
Johnston Press plc Registered in Scotland no. SC015382
Registered Office:Orchard Brae House, 30 Queensferry Road, Edinburgh EH4 2HS
Opinions expressed in this email are those of the writer and not the company.
E-mail traffic is monitored within Johnston Press and messages may be viewed.
This e-mail and any files with it are solely for the use of the addressee(s).
If you are not the intended recipient, you have received this e-mail in error.
Please delete it or return it to the sender or notify us by email at
postmaster@jpress.co.uk
----------- end of quote
Here's a response I just posted on their site, a response which may also be censored:
Creeping sharia? Sharia in fact.
Free speech, and therefore free thought, and the ability to be an intellectually and emotionally honest human being is dead in Limerick.
Thank goodness your little speck on the Internet cannot control what happens nowadays. The editors and operators of this site are partners in abuse. Child abuse. Adult abuse. The abuse that comes directly from life within a cult.
Thursday, January 22, 2015
DeWayne Wickham, Coward and Murder Apologist - Regarding Censorship of Charlie Hebdo
Greetings,
I am writing to file a complaint regarding the following employee of Morgan State University: DeWayne Wickham. The main focus of my complaint is one of journalistic malpractice, where this man who's the head of the journalism department in my view advocates for the murder of artists - such as the artists recently murdered at the offices of Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
A journalist should report the facts, not censor them. It's not your job to treat religion and cults with kid gloves, or to "protect" people from well-founded honest opinions about religions and cults.
Recently Mr. Wickham published the following article in USA Today:
Wickham: 'Charlie Hebdo' crosses the line
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/01/19/charlie-hebdo-cross-line-free-speech-covers-islam-limits-wickham/21960957/
Here's my reply to that article:
De facto apology for, and support for, murderers and their actions. In the wake of the murder of 12 people this is the best you can do?
Papers which refused to show the art of artists just barely murdered for their art need to find useful apologists for their despicable and cowardly actions. USA Today has such a man on staff apparently.
Want to know about Islam? Ask an ex-Muslim. You'll get more honest answers about the totality of the situation. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Faisal Saeed Al Mutar, Maryam Namazie, Salman Rushdie, Walid Shoebat, and so on. Also you'll get more honest answers from people who left other cults such as Mormonism. Ex-Mormons usually more easily sympathize & empathize with the plight of people in other cults. The two main differences between Islam & Mormonism are time-since-founding and that the core edicts of Islam are more dangerous & destructive & abusive than Mormonism.
Apology for murder. Apology for censorship. Apology for having a new de facto sharia, a new "Islamic-State-Light" in America and Europe. That's what people like DeWayne Wickham are apparently advocating for.
As for me I'll stand with Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Faisal Saeed Al Mutar, Maryam Namazie, Salman Rushdie, Walid Shoebat, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Steven Pinker, Sam Harris, and Caroline Fourest.
Here's a related article by Ms. Fourest:
Violence Against Charlie Hebdo: The Globalization of Moral and Intellectual Confusion
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/caroline-fourest/violence-against-charlie-_b_6509802.html
Cowardly "journalists" who aren't really journalists quickly apologize for murder and their own pusillanimous actions, search, find, and scratch for every possible reason for their cowardly actions. It's lame - but you're part of the "old media." Old-media is who's doing the censoring of art artists were just barely murdered for. Thank goodness for the Internet, where we need not ask amoral cowards to be our filters.
The "left" really does *nothing* to help Muslims leave the abusive cult they're in. So-called "journalists" stand by and watch murder happen, and then quickly go on and apologize for (and de facto support) the actions of the murderers. It's your job to report on the facts - that's it - not to be cowardly rear-end-covering filters in the wake or terrible murder and murder-enabled artistic censorship.
Additional related articles:
We Are Charlie: Free Speech v. Self-Censorship
by Douglas Murray
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5016/charlie-hebdo-attack
Charlie Hebdo stood alone. What does that say about our ‘free’ press?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-stood-alone-what-does-that-say-about-our-free-press/
Salman Rushdie on Charlie Hebdo: freedom of speech can only be absolute
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/15/salman-rushdie-on-charlie-hebdo-freedom-of-speech-can-only-be-absolute
Charlie Hebdo Editor To Chuck Todd: When You Blur Our Cover, 'You Blur Out Democracy' - Hebdo Editor Scolds Outlets For Not Showing Cover: ‘You Blur Out Democracy’ With Censorship
http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/18/hebdo-editor-scolds-outlets-for-not-showing-cover-you-blur-out-democracy-with-censorship-video/
Men Without Chests: How C.S. Lewis Predicted Charlie Hebdo Censorship
http://thefederalist.com/2015/01/08/men-without-chests-how-c-s-lewis-predicted-charlie-hebdo-censorship/
Sam Harris' new entry on the murder of Hebdo artists, and the subsequent censorship.
After Charlie Hebdo and Other Thoughts
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/after-charlie-hebdo-and-other-thoughts
I am writing to file a complaint regarding the following employee of Morgan State University: DeWayne Wickham. The main focus of my complaint is one of journalistic malpractice, where this man who's the head of the journalism department in my view advocates for the murder of artists - such as the artists recently murdered at the offices of Charlie Hebdo in Paris.
A journalist should report the facts, not censor them. It's not your job to treat religion and cults with kid gloves, or to "protect" people from well-founded honest opinions about religions and cults.
Recently Mr. Wickham published the following article in USA Today:
Wickham: 'Charlie Hebdo' crosses the line
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/01/19/charlie-hebdo-cross-line-free-speech-covers-islam-limits-wickham/21960957/
Here's my reply to that article:
De facto apology for, and support for, murderers and their actions. In the wake of the murder of 12 people this is the best you can do?
Papers which refused to show the art of artists just barely murdered for their art need to find useful apologists for their despicable and cowardly actions. USA Today has such a man on staff apparently.
Want to know about Islam? Ask an ex-Muslim. You'll get more honest answers about the totality of the situation. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Faisal Saeed Al Mutar, Maryam Namazie, Salman Rushdie, Walid Shoebat, and so on. Also you'll get more honest answers from people who left other cults such as Mormonism. Ex-Mormons usually more easily sympathize & empathize with the plight of people in other cults. The two main differences between Islam & Mormonism are time-since-founding and that the core edicts of Islam are more dangerous & destructive & abusive than Mormonism.
Apology for murder. Apology for censorship. Apology for having a new de facto sharia, a new "Islamic-State-Light" in America and Europe. That's what people like DeWayne Wickham are apparently advocating for.
As for me I'll stand with Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Faisal Saeed Al Mutar, Maryam Namazie, Salman Rushdie, Walid Shoebat, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Steven Pinker, Sam Harris, and Caroline Fourest.
Here's a related article by Ms. Fourest:
Violence Against Charlie Hebdo: The Globalization of Moral and Intellectual Confusion
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/caroline-fourest/violence-against-charlie-_b_6509802.html
Cowardly "journalists" who aren't really journalists quickly apologize for murder and their own pusillanimous actions, search, find, and scratch for every possible reason for their cowardly actions. It's lame - but you're part of the "old media." Old-media is who's doing the censoring of art artists were just barely murdered for. Thank goodness for the Internet, where we need not ask amoral cowards to be our filters.
The "left" really does *nothing* to help Muslims leave the abusive cult they're in. So-called "journalists" stand by and watch murder happen, and then quickly go on and apologize for (and de facto support) the actions of the murderers. It's your job to report on the facts - that's it - not to be cowardly rear-end-covering filters in the wake or terrible murder and murder-enabled artistic censorship.
Additional related articles:
We Are Charlie: Free Speech v. Self-Censorship
by Douglas Murray
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5016/charlie-hebdo-attack
Charlie Hebdo stood alone. What does that say about our ‘free’ press?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-stood-alone-what-does-that-say-about-our-free-press/
Salman Rushdie on Charlie Hebdo: freedom of speech can only be absolute
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jan/15/salman-rushdie-on-charlie-hebdo-freedom-of-speech-can-only-be-absolute
Charlie Hebdo Editor To Chuck Todd: When You Blur Our Cover, 'You Blur Out Democracy' - Hebdo Editor Scolds Outlets For Not Showing Cover: ‘You Blur Out Democracy’ With Censorship
http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/18/hebdo-editor-scolds-outlets-for-not-showing-cover-you-blur-out-democracy-with-censorship-video/
Men Without Chests: How C.S. Lewis Predicted Charlie Hebdo Censorship
http://thefederalist.com/2015/01/08/men-without-chests-how-c-s-lewis-predicted-charlie-hebdo-censorship/
Sam Harris' new entry on the murder of Hebdo artists, and the subsequent censorship.
After Charlie Hebdo and Other Thoughts
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/after-charlie-hebdo-and-other-thoughts
Monday, May 12, 2014
Recovery from Atheists of Utah
Thoughts on recovery from Atheists of Utah, and similar "secular," "humanist," and "naturalist" groups.
A new religion is born, and as with all religion there are de facto elders, priests, doctrines, dogmas, belief maintenance, heresy trials, and excommunications. With the new religion of atheism things are a bit more subtle, but not by much.
Recently in the very exclusive ultra-leftist-atheists-only closed facebook group for A of U I had the audacity to state that I thought Duck Dynasty was provocative, useful, and mostly ok. That was heresy for the group leader.
Here's an expanded version of a response I posted in their closed exclusive de facto ultra-leftie-atheist group:
You're already well on your way to becoming an anti-normal-family religion.
Here's one recent example of the leftist hatred for the normal productive family:The common stance of your membership falls along similar lines to the STFU-Parents-woman who'd prefer that normal families just shut up about the joys of having children.
In response to my expression of appreciation for Duck Dynasty, your group has given religious responses thus far, straight from the latest human religion.Belief maintenance. Heresy trials.I don't wish to belong to the religion of atheism plus or similar dogmatic faiths.The founder of your church hooked up with a pro-life atheist and had a kid with her. But she was never welcome at SLVA (Salt Lake Valley Atheists) because of her views. SLVA was decidedly pro-ultra-left.The fruit of the founder's outreach work has resulted in an ultra-Stonewall focus for your group. That's just the way it is. But it's a bit ironic that the founder of A of U ended up having a kid with a woman forcibly excluded from SLVA because of her social conservative views.Hmmm. As the world (or stomach) turns. I would have expected better, but it's all rather par for the course in the long history of human religion.I now return you to your regularly scheduled mirrored echo chamber of unquestioned newly dominant paradigms.
Is the judgement of the church court in now? Sounds like it may be.Yes I like Duck Dynasty.Heresy for A of U.
If you want to have a discussion that's one thing. But if you're just a priest of a church, who pulls every tool out for discounting an argument other than possibly reasonable ones, then I'm not particularly obliged to respond - any more than I am to the leader of any other religion.---
Atheists of Utah was recently named the "best Religious Group" and a runner up for the Best Social Group, as awarded by Q Salt Lake. Apt & appropriate awards. But being at the pinnacle of appreciation for the ultra-left is not all it's cracked up to be. An ultra-leftist cult. That's what Atheists of Utah has become in my view - and so I don't wish to be a member.
Were a group to be founded to help people recover from this new destructive cult of the left, here's draft short & long descriptions for such a hopeful recovery group:
Short description:
At Recovery from Atheists of Utah we help you recover from recovery from religion, particularly the religion known as Atheists of Utah.Long description:
Did you leave one cult just to find you'd jumped right into another? Atheists claim their beliefs are falsifiable - unless you question the social-agenda aspects of their views. THEN the de facto heresy & excommunication trials begin.
Here at Recovery from Atheists of Utah we recover from the ultra-leftist side of atheism. The extreme-cultist left. Yes the right has their problems, but the left can be just as dogmatic and abusive.
An open exchange of ideas is welcome here. We don't resort to unwarranted name-calling as a means of shutting people up or belief maintenance!
Humans have in and out group morality.
Our in group morality is expanding, and that's a good thing.
But human nature DOES naturally include shaming for certain activities which are otherwise destructive. A damn hard thing for an ex-conservative religionist to realize is that SOME of that shaming actually is a damn good thing for the future of humanity.
Speaking the truth. Liberal cultists don't like it any more than conservative cultists do.
We didn't leave one religion just to join another.
Atheists of Utah, in the view of the author of this description, has become a leftist cult. Just as abusive as cults on the right.
But it's worse in my view: It's a part of the LDC - the Liberal Death Cult, a cult which does not value life & survival - again in the view of the author.
Does this description go too far? Maybe. My beliefs may be falsifiable. I'm willing to listen to evidence. They however, apparently, are not.
Recover from the dogmatism of the left. Avoid politically correct destructive whirlpools of consensus, mirrored echo chambers, and unquestioned newly-dominant paradigms.
Does the right have a point, at least on some issues? It's heresy amongst liberals to say: YES!
But again, we didn't leave one fucking cult just to join another.
Recover, from Atheists of Utah, and similar destructive leftist cults. How? Through honesty, and avoiding affiliation with all de-facto ultra-leftist new-cults. Cults & religions, on the left & the right. We need to find a new way to be human than these petty shallow infantile first-attempts: Through science, honesty, honest history, and being willing to listen to ALL sides.
Does the other side have a point? For example, the guys on Duck Dynasty? What if they do? What if the right is right on at least some points? Heresy, heresy, heresy to admit this. But the LDC is stuck in their own narcissistic hole.
These are all the views of the author - after a lot of observation & seeing what happens on all sides - PLUS after taking a step back from America and seeing what happens in other countries. Come to find out social-conservatvism, aspects of it, DOES actually help humanity survive, thrive, and be happy. Whodathunkit?The TBMs (True Believing Mormons) don't like my blog. AND the TBULAs (True Believing Ultra Liberal Atheists) don't like it either. Maybe that means I'm making progress!
It's also worth noting that we may need recovery from the Exmoron Foundation. That's another story.
---
Related blog posts:
The Atheist Movement needs move laxative - Making room for social & political conservatives!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-atheist-movement-needs-move.html
Advice for Social Conservatives & Moderates, from a Family Values Atheist
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/advice-for-social-conservatives.html
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/atheism
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/homosexuality
Friday, April 25, 2014
My time as an Alaska missionary | Censored at mission.net, a site for former Mormon missionaries, of course
The following is a response I posted elsewhere when I noticed a first poster was from Fairbanks, Alaska:
----------------
From '86 to '88 I lived in Alaska, including Anchorage, Eagle River, Sterling (Soldotna), and North Pole (Badger area - Fairbanks). I spent most of my time in Alaska doing the following:
1. Taking pictures of sunsets.
2. Walking door to door.
3. Mapping streets and highways onto 3x5 cards.
4. Trying to avoid being punched by crazy psychotic companions.
5. Trying to avoid getting shot by reclusive Alaskans.
6. Avoiding masturbation.
7. Confessing to my Mormon leaders about masturbation.
8. Baptizing a few lonely misfits.
9. Learning how to be a salesman when not going door to door (seriously - that's what they teach the nineteen year old pretentious pompous snotty nosed know-it-all kids who go on Mormon missions - professional sales techniques).
I have one sister in hippie town Homer. She first moved there working on the spit in a cannery. Now she has about 7 acres and a small house, and is a small ship captain.
Anyway, so yes there are a few former cult members here.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/
A bit more:
I don't believe in the new religion Atheism Plus, nor in anything similar (eg: the assumption that an atheist is automatically an ultra-leftist, and that to question that position means a person is not a true atheist).
I particularly appreciate the work of Hitchens, Steven Pinker, Daniel Dennett, Dawkins, Sagan, and some of Sam Harris's work. I suggest checking them all out if you've not done so thus far. Pinker & Hitchens have been particularly useful in the realm of questing both the left & right's presumptions. I think we need to question all sides, and not just assume that the "exact-extreme-opposite" of a given position is any better than the first one we used to embrace. Anyway...
------------------------
Addendum:
Boo fucking hoo. My profile got removed from the "mission alumni" database at
http://www.mission.net/alaska/anchorage
...a place where former missionaries get to tell how things are going in their lives, after I asked the site admins of mission.net to find out why the Alaska mission webmaster wasn't responding to my emails to get my previous profile text approved. Instead of responding themselves (the main site admins) they deleted my profile.
Ok, well, now I'm working to re-add a new profile, with even more honest text inside.
Hey, on the profile setup page is the following text:
Anything I want? I don't think so. You can only say "anything you want" if you're still a brainwashed true believing Mormon.
You see my friends, Mormons are NOT very nice. Not kind. Not caring.
They're fucking control freaks, period. That's the bottom line. Cult members, nothing more, dressed up in pretty suits & dresses. Fucking cult members.
This type of thing goes on in Mormonism all the time: Allow you, who you are, to exist among them ONLY if you tow the strict party line!
My previous profile which they removed me for just simply stated my life status. Married. Have a kid. Oh and my personal website linked over to this blog. Perhaps that was the tipping point for them. But the truth is the truth. "You can say anything you want?" Nope. In Mormonism you can't be who you are, deep down, as a normal human being.
Anyway I did submit another add request for my profile on that site. I rather suspect they'll either ignore or delete it again. Well, when you're in a scaredy-cat fearful cult like Mormonism, it's very important to protect yourself & all other Mormons from people & ideas which may free you from the cult.
Fuckers.
Latest profile re-add request screen shot:
[...probably not appearing there anytime soon. But the cult can't stop freedom on the the Internet!]
----------------
From '86 to '88 I lived in Alaska, including Anchorage, Eagle River, Sterling (Soldotna), and North Pole (Badger area - Fairbanks). I spent most of my time in Alaska doing the following:
1. Taking pictures of sunsets.
2. Walking door to door.
3. Mapping streets and highways onto 3x5 cards.
4. Trying to avoid being punched by crazy psychotic companions.
5. Trying to avoid getting shot by reclusive Alaskans.
6. Avoiding masturbation.
7. Confessing to my Mormon leaders about masturbation.
8. Baptizing a few lonely misfits.
9. Learning how to be a salesman when not going door to door (seriously - that's what they teach the nineteen year old pretentious pompous snotty nosed know-it-all kids who go on Mormon missions - professional sales techniques).
I have one sister in hippie town Homer. She first moved there working on the spit in a cannery. Now she has about 7 acres and a small house, and is a small ship captain.
Anyway, so yes there are a few former cult members here.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/
A bit more:
I don't believe in the new religion Atheism Plus, nor in anything similar (eg: the assumption that an atheist is automatically an ultra-leftist, and that to question that position means a person is not a true atheist).
I particularly appreciate the work of Hitchens, Steven Pinker, Daniel Dennett, Dawkins, Sagan, and some of Sam Harris's work. I suggest checking them all out if you've not done so thus far. Pinker & Hitchens have been particularly useful in the realm of questing both the left & right's presumptions. I think we need to question all sides, and not just assume that the "exact-extreme-opposite" of a given position is any better than the first one we used to embrace. Anyway...
------------------------
Addendum:
Boo fucking hoo. My profile got removed from the "mission alumni" database at
http://www.mission.net/alaska/anchorage
...a place where former missionaries get to tell how things are going in their lives, after I asked the site admins of mission.net to find out why the Alaska mission webmaster wasn't responding to my emails to get my previous profile text approved. Instead of responding themselves (the main site admins) they deleted my profile.
Ok, well, now I'm working to re-add a new profile, with even more honest text inside.
Hey, on the profile setup page is the following text:
"Here is where you can say anything you want about yourself. Tell us about kids, church callings, your testimony, a recent vacation or anything you feel like sharing." (emphasis added)
Anything I want? I don't think so. You can only say "anything you want" if you're still a brainwashed true believing Mormon.
You see my friends, Mormons are NOT very nice. Not kind. Not caring.
They're fucking control freaks, period. That's the bottom line. Cult members, nothing more, dressed up in pretty suits & dresses. Fucking cult members.
This type of thing goes on in Mormonism all the time: Allow you, who you are, to exist among them ONLY if you tow the strict party line!
My previous profile which they removed me for just simply stated my life status. Married. Have a kid. Oh and my personal website linked over to this blog. Perhaps that was the tipping point for them. But the truth is the truth. "You can say anything you want?" Nope. In Mormonism you can't be who you are, deep down, as a normal human being.
Anyway I did submit another add request for my profile on that site. I rather suspect they'll either ignore or delete it again. Well, when you're in a scaredy-cat fearful cult like Mormonism, it's very important to protect yourself & all other Mormons from people & ideas which may free you from the cult.
Fuckers.
Latest profile re-add request screen shot:
[...probably not appearing there anytime soon. But the cult can't stop freedom on the the Internet!]
Thursday, April 24, 2014
On Mormons who believe science shows the Book of Mormon is true.
Mormons who believe science shows the Book of Mormon is true. There's comparisons with creationist "science" to be sure.
13th International Book of Mormon Evidence Conference
http://events.r20.constantcontact.com/register/event?oeidk=a07e8ygft4b73fe4785&llr=z7h5t5cab
The FIRM foundation:
http://firmlds.org
BoM DNA evidence:
http://www.bookofmormonevidence.org/downloads.php
An appropriate response, from a past associate of mine Simon Southerton:
http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com/2011/12/origin-of-x-lineage.html
and
http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com/2013/11/meldrums-x-lineage-ugly.html
It's not surprising really, to have Mormons frantically searching, searching, and searching for evidence. And then, they pull it right out of their collective asses.
The competition for the brain washed conference:
http://exmormonfoundation.org/conference-archive.html
and where Simon spoke:
http://exmormonfoundation.org/audio2006.html
Sadly the pro-science competition doesn't allow children at their conference though - STRANGE!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/exmormon%20foundation
But they're better than nothing I suppose.
13th International Book of Mormon Evidence Conference
http://events.r20.constantcontact.com/register/event?oeidk=a07e8ygft4b73fe4785&llr=z7h5t5cab
The FIRM foundation:
http://firmlds.org
BoM DNA evidence:
http://www.bookofmormonevidence.org/downloads.php
An appropriate response, from a past associate of mine Simon Southerton:
http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com/2011/12/origin-of-x-lineage.html
and
http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com/2013/11/meldrums-x-lineage-ugly.html
It's not surprising really, to have Mormons frantically searching, searching, and searching for evidence. And then, they pull it right out of their collective asses.
The competition for the brain washed conference:
http://exmormonfoundation.org/conference-archive.html
and where Simon spoke:
http://exmormonfoundation.org/audio2006.html
Sadly the pro-science competition doesn't allow children at their conference though - STRANGE!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/exmormon%20foundation
But they're better than nothing I suppose.
Tuesday, April 22, 2014
Response to a brainwashed Mormon woman from Oregon
On Facebook I found a post by a current Mormon who lives in Oregon. Below I've drafted her questions & my responses. The text next to the Q for question items is her text. And my responses are next to the A for answers.
---
Howdy.
Your profile doesn't look like a one-off troll type account, and so I'm going to respond in more detail:
Q. Why is it so important for non LDS people to tear down the LDS religion?
A. Normally when people act in this regard it's for reasons they feel are good & valuable.
A. Are you sure? Atheists tend to know the most about religion.
A. What a person believes in makes a difference. Not all beliefs have equal value. Some beliefs hurt people & destroy lives.
Q. belief in something is better than belief in nothing.
A. We don't believe in "nothing." We just don't believe in Joseph Smith's alien Kolobite god.
A. Abusive controlling brain washing iron fisted destructive religions should be for no one, ideally.
Q. should remain a personal choice.
A. Children cannot choose. Most children are sucked into the religion of their parents. They don't have the ability to choose. Even adults can be sucked in though.
A. A non-believer is no longer in the religion.
Q. then you have no right to tear it down.
A. We have EVERY RIGHT (!!!) to speak our mind, and we shall continue to do so. It is a terrible offense and abuse to request that we do otherwise.
A. When a church leader acts as as an instrument of abuse (which they do by default), is that their choice?
A. Yes it does. What else would? History, or revisionist-history? Facts, or just faith-promoting-pseudo-facts? The real life experiences of people, or just those interpreted in a way to never criticize the Mormon Church or it's leaders?
Q. It just makes it wrong for you as an individual.
A. No, not everything is equal. Not everything is relative. Not all churches are of equal value. Not all churches help and/or hurt their followers in the same way.
Q. I am an active member and devout in my beliefs
A. Which is exactly why you're saying what you're saying. Meme set defense mechanisms. Amazing, but very sad. Mormon Brain Software. Yes, I had similar software running in my brain, and I'm quite familiar with how it works. The Church is always right, everything else be damned. Joseph the charismatic charlatan has shown you the way.
Q. It was the right choice for me and my children
A. You are actively abusing your children by allowing them to remain within Mormonism.
Q. and we are happy.
A. Happy in the gilded cage?
A. We know it isn't. 8 year olds at fast & testimony meeting, and their brain washed parents, know it is.
Q. No one really knows if there is an afterlife.
A. There isn't.
Q. My chosen religion has made me a better person
A. You don't sound like a better person so far.
Q. and has given me a standard in which to live my life.
A. Your standard for living should not come from old farts who want to get your money & keep you down. Humans have built-in morality, instilled by evolution by natural selection, and by the "neck-top" apps given by culture.
A. The peace that comes from ignorance. The peace that comes from ignoring the pain of others. The peace the comes from putting your head in the sand. The peace that comes from letting your children be grilled about masturbation, and putting your children's genitals into the hands of fucking old abusive farts. The peace that comes from forcibly excluding others. The peace that comes from being a cult follower.
Q. Just because you have chosen not to believe doesn't mean the religion is wrong,
A. Are your beliefs falsifiable? If not your brain might be in a box. You need to let it out. Science shows us the way: Criticism & skepticism in the first instance. And then later truth & fact finding after cogent theory development, testing, peer review, and so on. But being willing to trash the ideas of your fellows, in good faith, all in an attempt to find out where the actual truth lies. Are you doing that now? No. Yes your religion is wrong.
Q. or that Joseph Smith (my ancestor) was a bad man.
A. OMG. Were I still a Mormon, I would now be in awe of you.
A. No it ain't.
A. Less educated people in Mexico & South America are more easily sucked in.
Q. so there must be something to it.
A. Yes there is. Amway on steroids. A cult. A sink. A whirlpool.
A. I don't really know why you keep saying choice. Choice this. Choice that.
A. What's best for us is to do exactly what we're doing now.
A. It's bad for you even if you think it's good.
A. Bash away. They need some bashing. Child raping priests? Sounds like a good reason to bash. Have at it!
Q. I have seen no evidence worth my time
A. It was worth your time to write. Is it worth your time to read the responses? If it's not, don't bother complaining in the first place.
Q. I do believe in the church and our prophets, the apostles and the corum of the 70.
A. It's spelled quorum.
A. More examples of your abused-status.
Q. All that evidence you talk about is made up and false.
A. More evidence of your being in a cult.
Q. This is a life style for active members, not a hobby or just something we do on Sundays.
A. We know damn well what life is like in the Mormon Church.
Q. We cannot be swayed by false propaganda and 'evidence' written by angry inactives or non-members.
A. More evidence that you're not a nice, happy, or healthy person.
If you want to have a dialogue with people who've left, you can have one, you can have a conversation. But NO we won't shut up at your request. We WON'T stop speaking. We WON'T stop calling out problems with the church of our youth. We WON'T stop trying to free people from the abuse - and that includes trying to free YOU from it.
Sincerely,
Jonathan
April 22, 2014
p.s. Regarding the process of science & how it works:
"Trashing" & "tear down" might imply that everything's up for grabs when it isn't. Yes it's the goal of all reasonable honest scientists to try to "tear down" existing theories. To disprove them. To show where they're wrong. But more often than not one theory builds upon another. Einstein's theories didn't destroy Newton's. It simply built upon the previous theory, showed where Newton's claims remain valid (for most of human experience & speeds & viewpoints), and where they fall apart (eg: close to the speed of light or when next to very massive objects). Same goes for other new theories, usually. But when a bigger part of a theory is overturned, we view that with joy, not concern. Cha-ching - we've now learned MORE about the Universe. Super!
The truth finding method of science is far more powerful because of this. Far more accurate results than other methods.
In science you get ahead by disproving or finding flaws with previous theories - and that is it's power.
Related article by Steven Pinker:
---
Howdy.
Your profile doesn't look like a one-off troll type account, and so I'm going to respond in more detail:
Q. Why is it so important for non LDS people to tear down the LDS religion?
A. Normally when people act in this regard it's for reasons they feel are good & valuable.
There is a substantial difference between the Evangelical protestors outside of the Great & Spacious Building & Temple Square during Mo. Conference, and why we wish to "tear down the LDS religion."Q. I don't see anyone trying to do this with any other religion.
I also don't put much stock in people who're unhappy with Mormonism because the Mormon Jesus is different from the Baptist or Protestant or Catholic Jesuses. I could care less about such differences.
However there are many valuable, good, reasonable, valid, cogent, evidence-based, experience-based, fact-based reasons we can give as to why we express concerns, and why we use the tonalities we use as we express our concerns.
Do you REALLY want to know the answer, or are you just claiming there CAN BE NO answer which contradicts the validity of Mormonism? If your approach is the latter, then there's not much use in proceeding further. However if you really want to know the answer, here's where to find out more:
1. My own exit journal: http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm#history
2. The exit journals of hundreds of others:
http://www.exmormon.org/stories.htm
3. Specific exit journals by others I find particularly valuable:
Simon Southerton - http://www.exmormon.org/whylft125.htm
audio form his speech during his 2006 appearance at an exmo conference:
http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/audio2006.html
Additional conference audio files: http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/conference-archive.html
A. Are you sure? Atheists tend to know the most about religion.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/28/nation/la-na-religion-survey-20100928Q. Belief is belief
http://bigthink.com/videos/reading-the-bible-or-the-koran-or-the-torah-will-make-you-an-atheist
Scientology criticism: http://www.xenu.net/
JW recovery: http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/jw-sites.html
Unitarian Univeralist recovery: http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-new-creed-of-unitarian-universalism.html
Catholic: http://bishop-accountability.org/
Islam: http://ex-muslim.org.uk
A. What a person believes in makes a difference. Not all beliefs have equal value. Some beliefs hurt people & destroy lives.
Q. belief in something is better than belief in nothing.
A. We don't believe in "nothing." We just don't believe in Joseph Smith's alien Kolobite god.
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/kolob_tract.htmQ. Like all religions it is not for everyone
A. Abusive controlling brain washing iron fisted destructive religions should be for no one, ideally.
Q. should remain a personal choice.
A. Children cannot choose. Most children are sucked into the religion of their parents. They don't have the ability to choose. Even adults can be sucked in though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_JonesQ. If you make the choice to remain a non believer in the LDS religion
A. A non-believer is no longer in the religion.
Q. then you have no right to tear it down.
A. We have EVERY RIGHT (!!!) to speak our mind, and we shall continue to do so. It is a terrible offense and abuse to request that we do otherwise.
Your church did this (among MANY other abuses):Q. If you are an inactive member due to some wrong you think you suffered then that is also your choice.
http://web.archive.org/web/20131021180407/http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml
"On March 2, 1982, Kip Eliason, age 16, distraught and filled with self-hate over his inability to stop masturbating, committed suicide..."
Good job there, Mrs. Mormon. Good job, Spencer Kimball, Boyd Packer, and parents like you (presumably). You helped Kip stop playing with his "little factory" such that he felt it necessary to kill himself.
More appropriate responses:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/boyd%20packer
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/Spencer%20Kimball
Yes, they couldn't keep their Jesus off my penis. But, there's many other abuses that happen.
Abuses of power. Telling members they cannot question the leaders, and if they do they'll be kicked out. Being kicked out may also be turned out onto the street from your family. Complete exclusion from your own family. And even for more "nice" Mormons it will still mean exclusion from temple marriage ceremonies & other things.
PART-Member family. PART, part, part, part, member family. Which "part" is the good part and which part is the evil part? Which part is the good wing, and which part is the damaged wing that one would be better off cutting off? Member. Non-member. Apostate. Enemy of the Church. And so on.
These are ALL expressions of OUT GROUP morality. Not nice. Not good. Yes fully natural. But best worth discouraging where possible.
Thank goodness for the Internet for increasing all the scope of all of our in-group morality. The 'net is hurting Mormonism & other expressions of destructive out-group morality - and that's a good thing.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/genocide-in-bible-ingroup-outgroup.html
http://edge.org/conversation/mc2011-history-violence-pinker
A. When a church leader acts as as an instrument of abuse (which they do by default), is that their choice?
When Joseph Smith slept with a 14 year old & with the wives of other men, was it his choice? Or is it only an even-choice when someone decides they don't like the abuse? A choice that can be easily discounted?Q. It doesn't make the religion wrong
Yes, people use their brains to make decisions. To get away from the abusers, the cult, the brain washing, the control, and to be more free. And that's a good thing.
A. Yes it does. What else would? History, or revisionist-history? Facts, or just faith-promoting-pseudo-facts? The real life experiences of people, or just those interpreted in a way to never criticize the Mormon Church or it's leaders?
Q. It just makes it wrong for you as an individual.
A. No, not everything is equal. Not everything is relative. Not all churches are of equal value. Not all churches help and/or hurt their followers in the same way.
Q. I am an active member and devout in my beliefs
A. Which is exactly why you're saying what you're saying. Meme set defense mechanisms. Amazing, but very sad. Mormon Brain Software. Yes, I had similar software running in my brain, and I'm quite familiar with how it works. The Church is always right, everything else be damned. Joseph the charismatic charlatan has shown you the way.
Q. It was the right choice for me and my children
A. You are actively abusing your children by allowing them to remain within Mormonism.
Q. and we are happy.
A. Happy in the gilded cage?
Happy in the black & white world of Pleasantville, or the color version? Happy in the dream world of all-encompassing all-encircling Mormonism, or in the real world of reality? Is ignorance bliss? It can be for a time. But in the long term being forcibly ignorant keeps a person's brain & soul in a type of prison.Q. No one really knows if religion is true.
http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/Redpill
A. We know it isn't. 8 year olds at fast & testimony meeting, and their brain washed parents, know it is.
Q. No one really knows if there is an afterlife.
A. There isn't.
Q. My chosen religion has made me a better person
A. You don't sound like a better person so far.
Q. and has given me a standard in which to live my life.
A. Your standard for living should not come from old farts who want to get your money & keep you down. Humans have built-in morality, instilled by evolution by natural selection, and by the "neck-top" apps given by culture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blank_Slate
http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_chalks_it_up_to_the_blank_slate
your neck-top: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q_mY54hjM0Q. I have peace in it.
and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXvldBqYjGM
A. The peace that comes from ignorance. The peace that comes from ignoring the pain of others. The peace the comes from putting your head in the sand. The peace that comes from letting your children be grilled about masturbation, and putting your children's genitals into the hands of fucking old abusive farts. The peace that comes from forcibly excluding others. The peace that comes from being a cult follower.
Q. Just because you have chosen not to believe doesn't mean the religion is wrong,
A. Are your beliefs falsifiable? If not your brain might be in a box. You need to let it out. Science shows us the way: Criticism & skepticism in the first instance. And then later truth & fact finding after cogent theory development, testing, peer review, and so on. But being willing to trash the ideas of your fellows, in good faith, all in an attempt to find out where the actual truth lies. Are you doing that now? No. Yes your religion is wrong.
Q. or that Joseph Smith (my ancestor) was a bad man.
A. OMG. Were I still a Mormon, I would now be in awe of you.
The progeny of JS has spoken, and is here before us. If you were a man you might be a G.A. today. But because you don't have a penis you're pretty much excluded from any real leadership roles. Damn. If you have some male children maybe they've got a chance.Q. It is the fastest growing religion in the world
Does a bad man sleep with a 14 year old and with the wives of other men?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives
http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/
A. No it ain't.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/09/survey-one-in-five-americans-is-religiously-unaffiliated/?hpt=hp_c1Q. in the Hispanic population
"...The fastest growing 'religious' group in America is made up of people with no religion at all..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest-growing_religion#Overall_statistics
Damn. Looks like atheism or Islam, depending on which column you choose.
A. Less educated people in Mexico & South America are more easily sucked in.
Q. so there must be something to it.
A. Yes there is. Amway on steroids. A cult. A sink. A whirlpool.
Religion is a natural phenomenon:Q. See it for what it is.......A CHOICE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_the_Spell:_Religion_as_a_Natural_Phenomenon
A. I don't really know why you keep saying choice. Choice this. Choice that.
You don't seem to understand the subtleties or realities of how the human brain works. A brain can be sucked in and held down. When a brain is in Mormonism it engages in meme-set defense & maintenance activities. There's a lot less choice in this process.Q. The ones who feel damaged and destroyed can go their own way and figure out what is best for them.
While I do believe & maintain we have free will, I can see where Sam Harris is coming from:
Sam Harris's view on free will:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FanhvXO9Pk
Daniel Dennett's response:
http://www.naturalism.org/Dennett_reflections_on_Harris%27s_Free_Will.pdf
or http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/reflections-on-free-will
Harris's response to Dennett's review:
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-marionettes-lament
In any case we have more free will that a petunia or a carrot. Our neural networks are incredibly complex computers which has far more decision-making power than other animals. But we are animals, and built-in traits & proclivities have far more of an influence than many would like to admit.
Humans can be sucked into cults. They are sucked into cults. Children are sucked into the religions of their parents. If a child's parents believe in an abusive religion, then they will probably grow up and become an abuser themselves - unless they come to their senses as they become more psychologically adult, or if they're exposed to enough evidence (personal or otherwise) which finally dislodges them from the abusive-religion meme set.
A. What's best for us is to do exactly what we're doing now.
Trying to help educate people like you about the problems with the cult you're in. Your brain & body have been hijacked, as have the brains & bodies of your children.Q. That doesn't mean it isn't good for those of us the religion is working for.
Here's a quote from a post I made back in 2012,
at http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/adorations_index.html/viewthread/35772/#561941
Recently I discovered that Miracle of Forgiveness is available at the mobot distribution centers, in several different languages. In each language section they have the BOM, maybe a bible, but always this POS book.----------end of quote
http://www.lds.org/braille/The Miracle of Forgiveness.txt
Very appropriate responses to this book can be found in the form of one star reviews at Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-of-Forgiveness-ebook/product-reviews/B002JQK1VG/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0
Since the Mormon Church apparently considers this book to still be highly relevant, then every despicable thing Spencer Kimball & Boyd Packer have done relative to negative portrayals of human sexuality to the youth & adults in the church is relevant also.
On oral sex, Spencer wants to get into your bedroom:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml
On masturbation, Spencer & Boyd both want to have a look:
http://www.zionsbest.com/only.html
http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/masturbation.htm
Also Spencer really is concerned about "petting" and "heavy petting." Oh my, that f-ing old fart must really have been hyperventilating when he wrote his Miracle of Forgiveness book. Necking. Petting. Heavy Petting. Tell us more Spencer, about all the things you dream about at night but also hate yourself for thinking of.
But people say he was such a nice man. My father has said this, as did my mother who worked as a nurse in the COB. But the guy was really not so nice after all, after you read all hateful the trash he put out.
Here's a related blog post:
Subverting normal human sexuality: Mormon Church's principal crime
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/subverting-normal-human-sexuality.html
Anyway, with my new wife seeing the pretty white shirts and the pretty buildings, and with my more recent research into the issue of Kimball's trash book being widely promoted in different languages by the mobot church, I decided to put on youtube a reprise of a song I created some time ago:
We were all just sperm in god's balls, a parody of the song Seeds:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/we-were-all-just-sperm-in-gods-balls.html
And, with Joseph Smith's nutty view of heaven in the form of Kolob, and "Kobol" entering the common consciousness in the form of the much less campy newer Battlestar Galatica version, the following newer song came out of a recent morning shower singing session:
Launch a Mission to Kolob...
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html
Joseph gets to have a 14 year old wife & wives who are still married to other men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith's_wives
Brigham gets a 15 year old & wives still married to other men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young's_wives
But, Spencer & Boyd really were/are obsessed with that you and your children are up to at home, at night, in the privacy of your bedrooms. What's up with that? And since Spencer's piece of trash book is *very* relevant for the Mormon Church, as per their having it readily available in many different languages at their distribution centers, (and reportedly since it's required reading for new missionaries) it's clear that they are still very interested in transmitting this human spirit destroying set of memes onto everyone they can.
What is up with the Mormon Church & sex? Their horn dog founder created a religion whose god, apparently, has to have an orgasm every 4.6 minutes to create 107 billion people in one million years.
107 billion people may have lived on Earth so far:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2097038/Are-really-people-alive-today-lived-Earth.html
...and that number doesn't account for "worlds without end."
Perhaps the Mormon God is rather like a giant space termite:
http://www.termite.com/images/queenking.jpg
...that would be more fitting.
Is your god an alien?
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/kolob_tract.htm
...and yet, now they want to very much control even the mere thought of sex in their members. Why? Because once a person actually allows themselves to be open to the possibility of sex being fun, normal, natural, empowering, and liberating, they can more easily find they have no use for the Mormon God or for the supposedly good feelings you get during Mormon Church meetings or from reading the lies of Joseph in the form of the Mormon scriptures.
The Mormon Church tries to hijack people's basic emotions, and to subvert & control & misinterpret them for their own nefarious ends. Other conservative religions do this also.
In any case I get much better feelings of validation from the love of my wife & new son than I ever got in mostly boring Mormon Church meetings, and from the occasional good feelings they claimed "proved" their church was correct. There's a price to be paid for pretty white shirts and pretty buildings.
If feelings can be used as a form of validation, then that means the much better feelings I've had since leaving mean their lies were incorrect.
A. It's bad for you even if you think it's good.
Life in Oregon is rather substantially different than life in Provo (unless you live too close to the Portland Temple).Q. I was a Catholic before I converted to LDS and I wasn't happy but I refuse to bash that religion.
A. Bash away. They need some bashing. Child raping priests? Sounds like a good reason to bash. Have at it!
Q. I have seen no evidence worth my time
A. It was worth your time to write. Is it worth your time to read the responses? If it's not, don't bother complaining in the first place.
Q. I do believe in the church and our prophets, the apostles and the corum of the 70.
A. It's spelled quorum.
Your post is a prime example of why you're not really a happy nor healthy person while being Mormon. Blind ignorance to the life experiences of others. Forcible ignorance to evidence, truth, fact, real history, and so on. You have been abused. You are being abused. And if your children are in the church, they are being abused, for many reasons.Q. I believe in its teachings and how the church was restored by Joseph Smith.
A. More examples of your abused-status.
Q. All that evidence you talk about is made up and false.
A. More evidence of your being in a cult.
Q. This is a life style for active members, not a hobby or just something we do on Sundays.
A. We know damn well what life is like in the Mormon Church.
Q. We cannot be swayed by false propaganda and 'evidence' written by angry inactives or non-members.
A. More evidence that you're not a nice, happy, or healthy person.
If you want to have a dialogue with people who've left, you can have one, you can have a conversation. But NO we won't shut up at your request. We WON'T stop speaking. We WON'T stop calling out problems with the church of our youth. We WON'T stop trying to free people from the abuse - and that includes trying to free YOU from it.
Sincerely,
Jonathan
April 22, 2014
p.s. Regarding the process of science & how it works:
"Trashing" & "tear down" might imply that everything's up for grabs when it isn't. Yes it's the goal of all reasonable honest scientists to try to "tear down" existing theories. To disprove them. To show where they're wrong. But more often than not one theory builds upon another. Einstein's theories didn't destroy Newton's. It simply built upon the previous theory, showed where Newton's claims remain valid (for most of human experience & speeds & viewpoints), and where they fall apart (eg: close to the speed of light or when next to very massive objects). Same goes for other new theories, usually. But when a bigger part of a theory is overturned, we view that with joy, not concern. Cha-ching - we've now learned MORE about the Universe. Super!
The truth finding method of science is far more powerful because of this. Far more accurate results than other methods.
In science you get ahead by disproving or finding flaws with previous theories - and that is it's power.
Related article by Steven Pinker:
Friday, February 28, 2014
Life on Kolob: Endless sex & a lot of pigu kissing; Johnny Lingo; 8 cow wife; Lamanite DNA
Johnny Lingo; 8 cow wife. Mormon films and productions fall into a scale with at least two dimensions: campy versus professional, and anally retentive versus friendly.
The film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfahoLfrddU
Chat with a Mormon:
http://mormon.org/chat
...chat with a brain washed person - today.
My responses:
Launch a mission to Kolob - more versions & info:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html
Where is the Lamanite DNA?
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/dna_additional.htm
Simon: http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com/
IMG 7666 2-28-2014 7:24am
Sunday, January 20, 2013
Atheists, exmormons, ex-Muslims, and so on "moving on" - video commentary
January 19, 2013 video commentary on atheists, exmormons, and people who've left other religions "moving on."
Are you uncomfortable being around atheists, ex-mormons, ex-Muslims, or people who've left other cults - people with a lot of "religious baggage?"
Here's a video commentary for you, and also about whether people are free to speak their mind while inside various religions or not. Also avoiding cults of personality, even in atheist groups.
Related blog post:
Why are exmormons and atheists so angry? Because they have damn good reasons to be.
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/01/why-are-exmormons-so-angry-because-they.html
Are you uncomfortable being around atheists, ex-mormons, ex-Muslims, or people who've left other cults - people with a lot of "religious baggage?"
Here's a video commentary for you, and also about whether people are free to speak their mind while inside various religions or not. Also avoiding cults of personality, even in atheist groups.
Related blog post:
Why are exmormons and atheists so angry? Because they have damn good reasons to be.
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/01/why-are-exmormons-so-angry-because-they.html
Thursday, January 17, 2013
Why are exmormons and atheists so angry? Because they have damn good reasons to be.
Apparently some people really do wonder:
Why are ex-mormons & atheists so angry?
Examples regarding those who leave Mormonism, which some may highlight:
My own pages:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm#history
A video about launching a mission to the Mormon god's homeworld:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12puVX3vtrY
A support group which has annual conferences in Salt Lake:
http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/
One of the forums where exmormons hang out:
http://exmormon.org/phorum/list.php?2
an additional forum: http://www.postmormon.org/
Additional good sites - about the kooky crazy nature of Mormonism. Can you detect some anger? Yes. It's refreshing & helpful...
http://www.salamandersociety.com/
http://nowscape.com/mormon/
Even some some atheists wonder about the anger of exmormons & fellow atheists.
Why? Why? Why are we so angry?
Because we have damn good reasons to be. Check out the links above. Read what people actually say.
All that baggage. Why don't we just "get over it?" We do live our lives and we move forward. But we never completely "move on." Why? Because the petrified penis of Mormonism still stands tall over Salt Lake. Because the "Miracle of Forgiveness" is still sold in the Mormon Church distribution centers. Because asshole Boyd Packer is still spewing human spirit destroying filth. Because the Mormon Church continues to oppress people. Because we're upset at being lied to. Because some of our families disowned us. Because some of our fellows committed suicide because of the pain.
Some people who had a fluffy exit from Mormonism, or who were only ever liberal religionists or who have always been non-religious, these people often have no idea what life was like in Mormonism or other conservative cults.
Why don't we just "get over it?" Ask us in a more respectful tone & maybe we'll tell you.
I will not disparage people for seeking social support after they leave a cult. You shouldn't either.
Why is it such a mystery to some why these people have "so much religious baggage?" Because they do. And maybe they need some help learning how to be more free from the cult they spent many years inside.
Atheist groups serve as a social support for people who leave various religions. People with a "lot of religious baggage" may well show up to such meetings, and if that offends you, too bad. It's par for the course at such meetings. Maybe those people need your help.
Related video commentary added January 19, 2013:
Related book:
Why Are You Atheists So Angry? 99 Things That Piss Off the Godless
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007MCMKV6
Related site & a good quote:
http://new.exchristian.net/2011/02/why-are-atheists-so-angry.html
"...Atheists are fully justified in their anger, and that anger may be the last, best hope for our species surviving our own ignorance and gullibility. If religious forces ever manage to quell our anger, then they will have won the battle . . . and lost the world..."
Why are ex-mormons & atheists so angry?
Examples regarding those who leave Mormonism, which some may highlight:
My own pages:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm#history
A video about launching a mission to the Mormon god's homeworld:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12puVX3vtrY
A support group which has annual conferences in Salt Lake:
http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/
One of the forums where exmormons hang out:
http://exmormon.org/phorum/list.php?2
an additional forum: http://www.postmormon.org/
Additional good sites - about the kooky crazy nature of Mormonism. Can you detect some anger? Yes. It's refreshing & helpful...
http://www.salamandersociety.com/
http://nowscape.com/mormon/
Even some some atheists wonder about the anger of exmormons & fellow atheists.
Why? Why? Why are we so angry?
Because we have damn good reasons to be. Check out the links above. Read what people actually say.
All that baggage. Why don't we just "get over it?" We do live our lives and we move forward. But we never completely "move on." Why? Because the petrified penis of Mormonism still stands tall over Salt Lake. Because the "Miracle of Forgiveness" is still sold in the Mormon Church distribution centers. Because asshole Boyd Packer is still spewing human spirit destroying filth. Because the Mormon Church continues to oppress people. Because we're upset at being lied to. Because some of our families disowned us. Because some of our fellows committed suicide because of the pain.
Some people who had a fluffy exit from Mormonism, or who were only ever liberal religionists or who have always been non-religious, these people often have no idea what life was like in Mormonism or other conservative cults.
Why don't we just "get over it?" Ask us in a more respectful tone & maybe we'll tell you.
I will not disparage people for seeking social support after they leave a cult. You shouldn't either.
Why is it such a mystery to some why these people have "so much religious baggage?" Because they do. And maybe they need some help learning how to be more free from the cult they spent many years inside.
Atheist groups serve as a social support for people who leave various religions. People with a "lot of religious baggage" may well show up to such meetings, and if that offends you, too bad. It's par for the course at such meetings. Maybe those people need your help.
Related video commentary added January 19, 2013:
Related book:
Why Are You Atheists So Angry? 99 Things That Piss Off the Godless
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007MCMKV6
Related site & a good quote:
http://new.exchristian.net/2011/02/why-are-atheists-so-angry.html
"...Atheists are fully justified in their anger, and that anger may be the last, best hope for our species surviving our own ignorance and gullibility. If religious forces ever manage to quell our anger, then they will have won the battle . . . and lost the world..."
Friday, September 21, 2012
Films, Cartoons, and Mohamed: Islam is a cult - just older and larger
A film comes out. Then some cartoons. Vociferous people demand censorship. Other people don't want "oil thrown on a fire."
Listen to recent BBC programs on the issue.
Read the comments on Charlie Hebdo's blog.
Let the comments from everyone wash over you. I did, and here's what I've come to conclude:
Islam is a wacky abusive cult, just like any other cult. What's the difference between Islam, Mormonism, and Scientology? Time, and the level of violence advocated by and allowed for by the core doctrines. Even regular Christianity, in it's many flavors, has cultish aspects depending on which church or denomination we're talking about.
Listen to what Islamic believers say about Mohamed. They love him more than they love life, more than their family, and so on.
Any criticism against Mohamed is taken so personally that the believers advocate censorship at the very least, and violence more commonly. With the recent debate over the film Innocence of Muslims, and the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, I constantly heard talk of "red lines." "You've crossed my red line" this, and "don't cross my red line" that.
When you cross a person's so-called "red line" what happens? What'ja gonna do? Complain? Sue me? Hit me? Kill me? Talk of "red lines" are threats. And threats for what? Regarding complaining about whom? A 6th century war mongering pedophile?
Have you ever heard of the wives of Joseph Smith? How about Brigham Young?
Why do cult leaders get to have so many wives? Charismatic charlatans really enjoy sex - with other men's wives, and with underage girls. 15, 14, 9? WTF! God gave you a message to do what? FOAD - that is the appropriate response to such people. But, you can always tell cult leaders by their actions.
They say: God gave me a message.
Reply: A message to do what?
They say: To fuck your wife and your daughter.
Reply: What if I say no?
They say: God will send you to hell... and, maybe I'll have my friends lean on you, or kill you.
They say: I am God's messenger. To deny my words is to deny the word of God.
Joseph fucking Smith, Brigham fucking Young, David fucking Koresh, L. Ron fucking Hubbard. And fucking Mohamed, peace be upon him - all the same deranged controlling fucks who want to use lies, violence, and damaging virulent meme sets to control others.
So yes, the only differences between Mormonism and Islam are this: Time, and the level of violence allowed by core doctrines.
I am an ex-Mormon. Thank god I wasn't a Muslim. But if I were, I hope that I'd have the balls to stand up to the cult members & their leaders.
People who have had no experience with real religion have no fucking idea what they're talking about when they use such phrases as "don't provoke," or "oil on flames," and so on.
It's our duty to provoke, to cajole, to help people oppressed by mind controlling cults fucking O-U-T of their religions. And to help force their religions to be more civilized. Christians were forced to have a sense of humor, by two world wars, the Renaissance, and the Enlightenment. Islam never had either on a permanent basis. Like it or not, we're helping them have theirs now. B grade film makers are helping, as are naughty, brash, and brave French satirical magazines.
In a civil society, cartoons & films are N-O-T banned, even if they offend your cult-originated deranged sensibilities about "your prophet." And in civil societies, you don't get to censor or threaten with violence me or anyone over a cartoon or film.
Many people in Islamic countries are unhappy because they are in Islamic countries being oppressed. Their hatred and anger is derived from their status. So, when the "oil" of films or cartoons are poured upon their hatred, they become angy - becuase they are currently in a prison.
BUT, the one thing secular people who want to censor films & cartoons & art critical of Islam don't realize is that art & speech critical of Islam will help to free these people. The volume needs to be turned up as loudly as possible, not turned down.
Related views:
By Sam Harris. And a previous extended interview where Harris talks about cult leaders.
By Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
By Pat Condell.
Additional copies of the Charlie Hebdo cartoons:
http://www.noelshack.com/2012-38-1348042554-20120919-100853.jpg
http://www.noelshack.com/2012-38-1348042543-20120919-100843.jpg
http://www.noelshack.com/2012-38-1348042534-20120919-100905.jpg
http://www.noelshack.com/2012-38-1348042594-20120919-101202.jpg
Copies of a related posts I've put up elsewhere:
--------------------- 1
Oh, no! More cartoons are coming! More drawings on paper! Run. Hide. Or, if you're an Islamist, go on a murderous rampage.
The volume should be turned up. We have, with the protests, the personification of a spoiled brat child. What if, by comparison, Rome threatened the Monty Python troupe with death for their film Life of Brian? What would be the "appropriate response" from that group & related artists? MORE OF THE SAME, and higher quality parodies as well. In the instance of the film we have a poor quality parody. We need higher quality parodies. Maybe that's REALLY why the Muslims are upset. A B movie is a B movie. We all want higher quality production values in our art.
Sam Harris on the issue:
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/on-the-freedom-to-offend-an-imaginary-god
BBC World Have Your Say programs on the cartoons:
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/worldservice/whys/whys_20120919-1912a.mp3
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/worldservice/whys/whys_20120919-1423a.mp3
[the above links will only be available for a few days, but here's an archive for you]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnARvLa3Pd8
A parody of my own about Joseph Smith & his church. Should I be killed for this by Mormons? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERKfXjG-7Xc Should my parody be banned? Damn, I'm glad I wasn't a f-in Muslim, but if I had been I hope I'd have enough balls to stand up to people still being repressed by the cult & their leaders.
--------------------- 2
Crazy repressed nuts kill a guy over a B film...
Part of the film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
The killers of the U.S. ambassador to Libya have by their actions moved this otherwise low grade laughable B movie into a very important status, and in my view it goes to show that more higher quality and more accurate films (and campy and crapily made films) need to be made.
We need a Monty Python style Life of Brian type film about Mohammed. Christians, through the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, and two world wars, have been forced to have a sense of humor about their religion. Muslims need to have a sense of humor about their religion as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_movie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_of_brian
--------------------- ps
The film Sumission Part 1, that Theo Van Gogh was killed over and why Ayaan Hirsi Ali has to live with constant security. Sam Harris has to have security guards travel with him. The Charlie Hebdo artists have to have this also. Having to live your life with security guards always around does tend to sharpen your mind about things, and your views about what really is important to say - and about the value of free speech, calling a spade a spade, honesty, and stating when the emperor has no clothes.
--------------------- ps2
Also, regarding certain libertarian ultra right wing nutjobs who claim that Palestine doesn't exist, I don't support them either, nor do I wish to be drawn into blind support for whatever Israel wants to do. People do have a right to live on their own land and to be left alone. But people also have a right not to be suicide bombed. So there's trouble on both sides there. But one key bottom line is that freedom of speech must not be abridged.
The "moderate" Muslims want censorship. They want their sharia also. That's not moderate though. We need freedom of speech. For the critics, for the cartoonists, for the sane people, and for the nutjobs. Everyone. Censorship is not an option. That's our red line.
Listen to recent BBC programs on the issue.
Read the comments on Charlie Hebdo's blog.
Let the comments from everyone wash over you. I did, and here's what I've come to conclude:
Islam is a wacky abusive cult, just like any other cult. What's the difference between Islam, Mormonism, and Scientology? Time, and the level of violence advocated by and allowed for by the core doctrines. Even regular Christianity, in it's many flavors, has cultish aspects depending on which church or denomination we're talking about.
Listen to what Islamic believers say about Mohamed. They love him more than they love life, more than their family, and so on.
Any criticism against Mohamed is taken so personally that the believers advocate censorship at the very least, and violence more commonly. With the recent debate over the film Innocence of Muslims, and the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, I constantly heard talk of "red lines." "You've crossed my red line" this, and "don't cross my red line" that.
When you cross a person's so-called "red line" what happens? What'ja gonna do? Complain? Sue me? Hit me? Kill me? Talk of "red lines" are threats. And threats for what? Regarding complaining about whom? A 6th century war mongering pedophile?
Have you ever heard of the wives of Joseph Smith? How about Brigham Young?
Why do cult leaders get to have so many wives? Charismatic charlatans really enjoy sex - with other men's wives, and with underage girls. 15, 14, 9? WTF! God gave you a message to do what? FOAD - that is the appropriate response to such people. But, you can always tell cult leaders by their actions.
They say: God gave me a message.
Reply: A message to do what?
They say: To fuck your wife and your daughter.
Reply: What if I say no?
They say: God will send you to hell... and, maybe I'll have my friends lean on you, or kill you.
They say: I am God's messenger. To deny my words is to deny the word of God.
Joseph fucking Smith, Brigham fucking Young, David fucking Koresh, L. Ron fucking Hubbard. And fucking Mohamed, peace be upon him - all the same deranged controlling fucks who want to use lies, violence, and damaging virulent meme sets to control others.
So yes, the only differences between Mormonism and Islam are this: Time, and the level of violence allowed by core doctrines.
I am an ex-Mormon. Thank god I wasn't a Muslim. But if I were, I hope that I'd have the balls to stand up to the cult members & their leaders.
People who have had no experience with real religion have no fucking idea what they're talking about when they use such phrases as "don't provoke," or "oil on flames," and so on.
It's our duty to provoke, to cajole, to help people oppressed by mind controlling cults fucking O-U-T of their religions. And to help force their religions to be more civilized. Christians were forced to have a sense of humor, by two world wars, the Renaissance, and the Enlightenment. Islam never had either on a permanent basis. Like it or not, we're helping them have theirs now. B grade film makers are helping, as are naughty, brash, and brave French satirical magazines.
In a civil society, cartoons & films are N-O-T banned, even if they offend your cult-originated deranged sensibilities about "your prophet." And in civil societies, you don't get to censor or threaten with violence me or anyone over a cartoon or film.
Many people in Islamic countries are unhappy because they are in Islamic countries being oppressed. Their hatred and anger is derived from their status. So, when the "oil" of films or cartoons are poured upon their hatred, they become angy - becuase they are currently in a prison.
BUT, the one thing secular people who want to censor films & cartoons & art critical of Islam don't realize is that art & speech critical of Islam will help to free these people. The volume needs to be turned up as loudly as possible, not turned down.
Related views:
By Sam Harris. And a previous extended interview where Harris talks about cult leaders.
By Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
By Pat Condell.
Additional copies of the Charlie Hebdo cartoons:
http://www.noelshack.com/2012-38-1348042554-20120919-100853.jpg
http://www.noelshack.com/2012-38-1348042543-20120919-100843.jpg
http://www.noelshack.com/2012-38-1348042534-20120919-100905.jpg
http://www.noelshack.com/2012-38-1348042594-20120919-101202.jpg
Copies of a related posts I've put up elsewhere:
--------------------- 1
Oh, no! More cartoons are coming! More drawings on paper! Run. Hide. Or, if you're an Islamist, go on a murderous rampage.
The volume should be turned up. We have, with the protests, the personification of a spoiled brat child. What if, by comparison, Rome threatened the Monty Python troupe with death for their film Life of Brian? What would be the "appropriate response" from that group & related artists? MORE OF THE SAME, and higher quality parodies as well. In the instance of the film we have a poor quality parody. We need higher quality parodies. Maybe that's REALLY why the Muslims are upset. A B movie is a B movie. We all want higher quality production values in our art.
Sam Harris on the issue:
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/on-the-freedom-to-offend-an-imaginary-god
BBC World Have Your Say programs on the cartoons:
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/worldservice/whys/whys_20120919-1912a.mp3
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/worldservice/whys/whys_20120919-1423a.mp3
[the above links will only be available for a few days, but here's an archive for you]
Ayaan Hirsi Ali:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnARvLa3Pd8
A parody of my own about Joseph Smith & his church. Should I be killed for this by Mormons? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERKfXjG-7Xc Should my parody be banned? Damn, I'm glad I wasn't a f-in Muslim, but if I had been I hope I'd have enough balls to stand up to people still being repressed by the cult & their leaders.
--------------------- 2
Crazy repressed nuts kill a guy over a B film...
Part of the film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
The killers of the U.S. ambassador to Libya have by their actions moved this otherwise low grade laughable B movie into a very important status, and in my view it goes to show that more higher quality and more accurate films (and campy and crapily made films) need to be made.
We need a Monty Python style Life of Brian type film about Mohammed. Christians, through the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, and two world wars, have been forced to have a sense of humor about their religion. Muslims need to have a sense of humor about their religion as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_movie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_of_brian
--------------------- ps
The film Sumission Part 1, that Theo Van Gogh was killed over and why Ayaan Hirsi Ali has to live with constant security. Sam Harris has to have security guards travel with him. The Charlie Hebdo artists have to have this also. Having to live your life with security guards always around does tend to sharpen your mind about things, and your views about what really is important to say - and about the value of free speech, calling a spade a spade, honesty, and stating when the emperor has no clothes.
--------------------- ps2
Also, regarding certain libertarian ultra right wing nutjobs who claim that Palestine doesn't exist, I don't support them either, nor do I wish to be drawn into blind support for whatever Israel wants to do. People do have a right to live on their own land and to be left alone. But people also have a right not to be suicide bombed. So there's trouble on both sides there. But one key bottom line is that freedom of speech must not be abridged.
The "moderate" Muslims want censorship. They want their sharia also. That's not moderate though. We need freedom of speech. For the critics, for the cartoonists, for the sane people, and for the nutjobs. Everyone. Censorship is not an option. That's our red line.
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