Postmodernism births sterile wastrels. Choose life instead.

Postmodernism births sterile wastrels. Choose life instead. Postmodernism (and racist eugenicist Margaret Sanger's birth control pill): Helps females become fat pigs. Next, overly attractive males have no females to hook up with. And thus, the Stonewall LGBTQPZ project was born: a place for abused abusive wastrels to go, so as to engage in mutual wankery to no good effect, other than some nice art perhaps, but zero kids born into best-for-the-kids settings. Lives derailed. Lives destroyed. Yes, it's true, wankery in and of itself won't make you a LGBTQPZ. For the Mormons & Ex-Mormons in my feed: Mormon Prophet Spencer Kimball's claim that wankery will may you a sexual invert (i.e. a g,a,y), which was taught textually AND verbally in the Mormon (LDS) Church, yes that's not correct. And mandatory sexually explicit interviews of children and adults absolutely drives some of those people to be angry reactionaries when they get older or become more mature. All abusive Mormon she'at which other flavors of Christianity don't do (e.g. Evangelical and other protestant). But the ultra left is not a panacea answer to the abuses of sections of the ultra right. Oh, yes, as an ex-religionist, you can be so angry angry angry, with religion in general. But, we being evolutionary animals with emergent properties, happen to couch our evolved morals within religious contexts. Religions are evolutionary artifacts and engines themselves. The (French) bullshit postmodernist ideology, derails the lives of many. Gender is binary in the human animal. Yes, children need a mother and a father, for their own best evolved and natural well being. Gender is not changeable in the human animal. There's no such thing as "gender identity," just moronic and stupid and abusive gender dysphoria. Secular people can have bad dumbshit memes running on their brains, too. Thus, to be a conservative, means you want to conserve things. Today being a conservative means conserving free speech. Conserving British Western Enlightenment values. Conserving the American project is the best example of those values. Universal slavery, ended. Science and human knowledge, advanced. True free speech, present, something not as fully present in any other country or community. The ability to fry sacred cows, yes, that's included. But let's not toss the baby of evolved morality out with the bathwater of mysticism. And I agree with Jordan Peterson that even the mystical stores have evolved natural good utilitarian value. Social conservatism is the >default< useful natural evolved position, because that position promotes live, preserves life, and continues life. Ok let's call out abuses, but let's also value what should be valued. Sincerely, Jonathan

Are Mormonism & Catholicism homosexual & pedophile generators? | Connections between homosexuality & pedophilia

Adam Carolla makes a quick transition in his commentary, from gays to pedos.

http://www.salon.com/2014/05/19/adam_carolla_where_are_all_the_jewish_roofers

"I don’t even know who’s gay and who’s not gay nine times out of 10 — why do you even need to know? Your skin color and gender one can see, if one wanted to discriminate. In terms of sexual proclivities, I don’t know what someone’s into! You could work with someone who’s into kids — how would you know?"

Clearly not every gay is a pedo. But is the link nonexistent?

Item 10 at
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/family-values-atheism-questioning.html

Which links to more info
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/response-to-site-claims-attack-by-lds.html

Sickening and abhorrent to know that human nature allows for such trash as pedos to be produced. Defects that should be locked up for life. Why is such trash picked up and valued by at least some gays?

Not fun to talk about. Liberal heresy to think what I saw was not a one off - that the observation has significant relevance.

---

Oh, and yes the Mormon Church does abuse kids.

http://web.archive.org/web/20131021180407/http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml

In my estimation there may well be deeper contributory expression-promotion synergistic links between Mormonism, gayness, pedos, and apology for pedos.

By comparison, the Catholic Church complains mightily about gayness, and they also have many pedo and/or gay priests.

Convicted pedophile who is friends with 5+ Salt Lake City area gays, and attendee at gay house parties and bars (saw first hand):

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695261750/Secret-shame-Predator-was-coach-Scout-chief.html

The truth sucks sometimes, but the non-truth sucks more.

Yes I imagine there's gays with more brain cells and morals. However sex with boyz (their spelling) is a common reference. Heard it first hand with my nephew and his friends many times.

I was the first leftbot chump my nephew came out to. In hindsight I wish I had referred him to other options than to hook up with gay culture.

-----------

Are Mormonism and Catholicism homosexual & pedophile generation machines?

In part I believe they are. For similar & different reasons, and for reasons having to do with expected responses to rightist extremism: leftist extremism.

Those "recovering" from those religions can also become abused & abuse themselves as they go way too far over to the other side, Both "sides" of the same coin playing off each other. Fighting each other. Helping each other be more extreme and frankly denialist.

Who introduced Mormon children to the concept of homosexuality? Past Mormon Prophet Spencer Kimball & related cohorts. So Kimball, by his extremist actions of linking innocuous masturbation with dead-end homosexuality, did both abuse children by helping them fear masturbation, plus he first placed in the minds of children the "option" for being a homosexual - so that when the child rebels against the retrograde idea of shaming for masturbation, he may look to homosexuality as a sort of "refuge" from the abusive nature of Mormonism.

A thesis.

A theory.

An opinion.

But also an observation: as noted I have a gay nephew who I spent many years with going to parties. He "came out" to me first. I observed his actions first hand. I know how harsh his father was & strict & ultra Mormon.

"Rebelling" against the abusive ultra-conservatism of Mormonism, meant, for my nephew, becoming a petty ultra-gay sexual-dead-end narcissist - abused so much by both sides that he readily accepts a convicted pedophile into his friend circle.

Next, we have my supposedly-bi uncle from Manti, Utah. Again, in response to the abusive nature of Mormonism in Manti, he moves to San Francisco, gets AIDS, dies, and leaves his straight family with no father. A multi-year process admittedly. But still this was the net result.

Then, we have groups like Atheists of Utah, who see themselves as the "answer" to Mormonism. Their "answer" is gayness, whosale embracing of the "gay agenda." No questions. No dissent. No other ideas. No other concepts. No other politics than ultra-left. No other thoughts allowed in their group. Just the most extreme leftist agenda, period. Their "answer" to Mormonism is: homosexuality.

So, a huge homosexual generation machine: Mormonism, and respondents to Mormonism. Linked together & a de facto gay and gay-agenda-apologist generator.

As for Catholicism, they also help generate more homosexuals and pedophiles by having forced celibacy of their priests. Their doctrines preach great fear about homosexuality. Their leaders talk about this again & again. So in Catholic households they are constantly telling their children about gayness. And the priests are often just a bunch of fucking pedophiles. So, in such an environment, what do you think will be the result?

When children rebel, they *may* more easily become gay, or a pedo, or both - and thus be tarred by the abusive stance of Catholicism on sexual issues. The first answer for Catholicism is to require all their priests to be married, to a woman. And secondly to allow women priests, women who are married to men.

For Mormonism, they should stop distributing the abusive book Miracle of Forgiveness. Stop interviewing children & adults about masturbation, and about sex before marriage. Tell children that masturbation is ok. Trying to wait to have sex in marriage is ok - but sometimes having sex with a person you'll most likely marry is ok too. Plus tell them that oral sex is ok - tell that especially to the adults (as oral sex was banned in Mormonism in the past).

Sex sex sex. When you try to press it down too much, you may just end up having a gay-person generation machine.

Now, I have to keep saying this I know. I realize there are service oriented gay people who are more level headed. More ethical. More moral. Less petty.

However, there are huge problems with "gay culture." Direct links to pedophilia which are not easy to dismiss. Not every gay person is such a "link," but the de facto links are there, at the parties, at the bars, on the Internet, and so on.

How to move forward? With honesty. Honesty about abuse on the right and the left. Honesty about how harshness on the right can well lead to a petty destructive narcissistic culture on the left in response. Playing off each other.

There are "answers" to be found on both sides, left & right. What answers come from the left? To not shame children too much for things like masturbation. To not be too controlling. To have systems in place which provide a social safety net for people. To help keep "cheats" in control, rich sociopathic cheats who would screw everyone over if it weren't for proper regulation.

The "answers" to be found on the right are that shaming for some forms of sexual expression does help protect us, from AIDS, from petty narcissism, from dead end tail chasing, and so on. That normal family life, with a mommy, and a daddy, and children, is the ideal center for humanity, it has been, it is, and it must be the center. When a male-female parent with child structure is not the center, the right is "right" to say that we're about to go right off the fucking rails.

As for gayness, gays have a right to jobs, apartments, and to not be harassed per se for having sex with other gays. But, on the other hand, children have a right to a mommy and daddy (!), including adopted children!

In my view both single women, and lesbians, should be barred from sperm bank use, period. A legal framework should be put into place to ensure that artificially facilitiated reproduction more closely mirrors what happens with more natural.

It's dangerous to fuck with how 13.8 billion years of evolution have set up. Humans are not blank slates (ref. Steven Pinker). We have a long sexual, not asexual, not homosexual, just sexual history.

Sex. The left fear it as much as the right. Don't be afraid of sex. Celebrate it. It's where life comes from! It helps you be wisely selfish. It helps you not to live a petty, stunted, dead end life - if you allow it to work normally. If you honor it's history.

A man.

A woman.

Babies.

Life!

Children may need a mommy and a daddy - even adopted children.

There is no such thing as "gay marriage" because two gay people cannot make babies, naturally with each other, period.

Only naturally sexually reproducing couples (ie: male & female couples) should have access to children.

Crazy defective destructive dangerous outlier men who're attracted to children should be locked up for life

Not everything is equal: gay's cannot produce babies naturally with each other, men with men, and women with women. Cannot, naturally, via the method which came from 1.2 billion years of evolutionary sexual history.

Yes there are service oriented gays who're more moral. But, things aren't so cut and dry as to assume that gay culture is a healthy panacea "answer" to right wing religion. It ain't.

Daniel Dennett's dangerous idea: Religion is a natural phenomenon. This fact cuts both ways. Fully natural, normal, valuable, and useful human morality can and does exist within religious frameworks. A damn hard thing for a liberal to admit! In fact many liberals are in active denial.

Sometimes the nuttypots DO know something. Fuck. That's a damn fucking hard thing for an ex-Mormon, or liberal, to admit. But most liberals are so naive and victims of fearful politically correct culture, they don't dare investigate whether their own presuppositions are flawed or not.

Is the "right" right, sometimes? Yes. Often they go way too far with their responses. AND their responses can push people right over the edge, right into the destructive cultures the right is so fearful of. That's the damn sucky thing about the whole situation (from the perspective of your average PC liberal who would prefer that things be otherwise).

Lefties can be as abusive as righties. An ultra-rightie can easily become an ultra-leftie - with an equal level of abuse being present. But often such people are too naive to recognize what is happening or what has happened.

Been there, first hand. Seen it happen to others, again and again. Seen the costs. So now, I'm more for honesty, than for 100% advocacy for leftist agenda.

========

Additional links:

Family Values Atheism: Questioning liberal dogma -- the Gay Flag: Freaks Welcome Here -- questioning gay marriage -- secular reparative therapy (choosing to live straight)
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/family-values-atheism-questioning.html

response to: 'Porn site claims attack by LDS Church servers' and questioning sex with 'boys' in gay culture
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/response-to-site-claims-attack-by-lds.html

Brief history of the modern childlove movement
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1794584/posts

The Pedophile Elephant in the Gay Activist Closet
http://www.voiceofrevolution.com/2011/11/15/the-pedophile-elephant-in-the-gay-activist-closet/

A Secular Case Against Gay Marriage?
http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/a-secular-case-against-gay-marriage/

'Severing Love From Diapers': The Other Case Against Gay Marriage
http://www.npr.org/2013/03/20/174848127/severing-love-from-diapers-gay-marriage-opponents-make-their-case

A Non-Religious Case Against Same Sex Marriage
http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2013/04/a-non-religious-case-against-same-sex-marriage.html

Read the "yes" side at:
http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-there-any-good-secular-arguments-against-gay-marriage
if you're a self described liberal you already know the no side. So read the yes side.

A secular case against same-sex marriage
https://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/a-secular-case-against-same-sex-marriage/

The Political Brain
A recent brain-imaging study shows that our political predilections are a product of unconscious confirmation bias
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-political-brain/

Michael Shermer on confirmation bias, on the left:
http://www.michaelshermer.com/tag/confirmation-bias/

Homosexual Sentenced to 40 Years in Prison After Offering ‘Son’ to International Pedophile Ring
http://christiannews.net/2013/07/06/homosexual-sentenced-to-40-years-in-prison-after-offering-son-to-international-pedophile-ring/

Man who's friends with 5+ gay people in Salt Lake City, and an attendee at local gay house parties & bars:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695261750/Secret-shame-Predator-was-coach-Scout-chief.html

Advice for Social Conservatives & Moderates, from a Family Values Atheist
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/advice-for-social-conservatives.html

Religion is a natural phenomenon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WhQ8bSvcHQ

Human Nature: A Conservative, Classical Liberal & Libertarian View
http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/library/philosophy/human-nature-conservative-classical-liberal-libertarian-view

My own additional thoughts:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/homosexuality

Advice for TBMs on porn: Why society accepts pornography but not littering?

For the true believing Mormon (TBM):

Why society accepts pornography but not littering?

1. Free speech beatch. This is fucking America. Get used to it!

2. Because you're a dumbshit.

3. Because you have a dick or clitty.

4. You're complaining about porn? WTF! Your founding prophet slept with a 14 year old and with the wives of other men. Then the second prophet with a 15 year old, and with the wives of other men. Then your god gets to have real sex with Mary the mother of Jesus. Hey, sounds like fuckin' porn to me. Hey, how many orgasms does it take in a million years to equal 100 billion spirit babies? 11 orgasms per hour. All sounds like fuckin' porn to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/we-were-all-just-sperm-in-gods-balls.html
http://atheism.about.com/od/mormomism/a/Mormon-Jesus-Born-Sex.htm
http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon385.htm
http://www.bible.ca/mor-god-had-sex-with-mary.htm
http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/HowManyPeopleHaveEverLivedonEarth.aspx

5. What about the plight of women in the Mormon heaven? Do they EVER get a rest from Elohim's dick?

6. Have you read the fucking Bible?
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/sex/long.html

7. Do your morals come from the fucking Bible?
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Here's the bottom line, my TBM beatches:

A. Yes highly commercialized porn is of less value.

B. Yes children should be protected from porn.

C. Porn has it's uses, even in marriage. Suggest searching out less commercial less-professional more down-home types. It's quite true that whores & pimps can & do inappropriately make money of off this key built in human trait. On the other hand, in the era of web 2.0 and so on, more real down to Earth "porn" can be found with appropriate research. Maybe you don't need to find any. But on occasion it can be useful, as an educational tool, and to help get things "going" in your marriage.

----

The sexual act is not inherently evil, nor should it be inherently censored. It's life. It's how life is created. Like it or not (you brainwashed TBM's usually HATE it), that's just the way it is.

TAKE YOUR G'S OFF FOR SEX, MY TBM FRIENDS!

Lighten up about porn. It's a free country & a largely free world. You don't like it? Fuckin' tough. Your prophet did FAR WORSE to REAL LIVE CHILDREN!!!

Also, having your children grilled about masturbation IS child abuse! How about that Mr. & Mrs. TBM!

LDS.ORG discover the perversity of Mormonism:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html

Miracle of Forgiveness - still widely promoted today, and translated into several other languages at the mobot distribution centers:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-Forgiveness-Spencer-Kimball/product-reviews/0884941922/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

My own history:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm#history

Suicide from the Mormon stance on masturbation:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080620075156/http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml

What about micro-management regarding oral sex? How abusive!
http://stakepresident.blogspot.com/2011/05/oral-abstinence-key-to-happy-fulfilling.html

What a bunch of hypocritical fucks - Mormons are on this issue.

Please transmit this message to your TBM associates. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Jonathan
...former Mormon missionary, Sunday school president, temple worker, and fucking long time chump - also a human who thankfully finally wised up.

Please rewrite the above in "nice" language for your TBM friends. Thank you.

My time as an Alaska missionary | Censored at mission.net, a site for former Mormon missionaries, of course

The following is a response I posted elsewhere when I noticed a first poster was from Fairbanks, Alaska:

----------------

From '86 to '88 I lived in Alaska, including Anchorage, Eagle River, Sterling (Soldotna), and North Pole (Badger area - Fairbanks). I spent most of my time in Alaska doing the following:

1. Taking pictures of sunsets.
2. Walking door to door.
3. Mapping streets and highways onto 3x5 cards.
4. Trying to avoid being punched by crazy psychotic companions.
5. Trying to avoid getting shot by reclusive Alaskans.
6. Avoiding masturbation.
7. Confessing to my Mormon leaders about masturbation.
8. Baptizing a few lonely misfits.
9. Learning how to be a salesman when not going door to door (seriously - that's what they teach the nineteen year old pretentious pompous snotty nosed know-it-all kids who go on Mormon missions - professional sales techniques).

I have one sister in hippie town Homer. She first moved there working on the spit in a cannery. Now she has about 7 acres and a small house, and is a small ship captain.

Anyway, so yes there are a few former cult members here.

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/

A bit more:

I don't believe in the new religion Atheism Plus, nor in anything similar (eg: the assumption that an atheist is automatically an ultra-leftist, and that to question that position means a person is not a true atheist).

I particularly appreciate the work of Hitchens, Steven Pinker, Daniel Dennett, Dawkins, Sagan, and some of Sam Harris's work. I suggest checking them all out if you've not done so thus far. Pinker & Hitchens have been particularly useful in the realm of questing both the left & right's presumptions. I think we need to question all sides, and not just assume that the "exact-extreme-opposite" of a given position is any better than the first one we used to embrace. Anyway...

------------------------

Addendum:

Boo fucking hoo. My profile got removed from the "mission alumni" database at
http://www.mission.net/alaska/anchorage
...a place where former missionaries get to tell how things are going in their lives, after I asked the site admins of mission.net to find out why the Alaska mission webmaster wasn't responding to my emails to get my previous profile text approved. Instead of responding themselves (the main site admins) they deleted my profile.

Ok, well, now I'm working to re-add a new profile, with even more honest text inside.

Hey, on the profile setup page is the following text:

"Here is where you can say anything you want about yourself. Tell us about kids, church callings, your testimony, a recent vacation or anything you feel like sharing." (emphasis added)

Anything I want? I don't think so. You can only say "anything you want" if you're still a brainwashed true believing Mormon.

You see my friends, Mormons are NOT very nice. Not kind. Not caring.

They're fucking control freaks, period. That's the bottom line. Cult members, nothing more, dressed up in pretty suits & dresses. Fucking cult members.

This type of thing goes on in Mormonism all the time: Allow you, who you are, to exist among them ONLY if you tow the strict party line!

My previous profile which they removed me for just simply stated my life status. Married. Have a kid. Oh and my personal website linked over to this blog. Perhaps that was the tipping point for them. But the truth is the truth. "You can say anything you want?" Nope. In Mormonism you can't be who you are, deep down, as a normal human being.

Anyway I did submit another add request for my profile on that site. I rather suspect they'll either ignore or delete it again. Well, when you're in a scaredy-cat fearful cult like Mormonism, it's very important to protect yourself & all other Mormons from people & ideas which may free you from the cult.

Fuckers.

Latest profile re-add request screen shot:



[...probably not appearing there anytime soon. But the cult can't stop freedom on the the Internet!]

Life on Kolob: Endless sex & a lot of pigu kissing; Johnny Lingo; 8 cow wife; Lamanite DNA

Johnny Lingo; 8 cow wife. Mormon films and productions fall into a scale with at least two dimensions: campy versus professional, and anally retentive versus friendly.

The film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfahoLfrddU

Chat with a Mormon:
http://mormon.org/chat
...chat with a brain washed person - today.

My responses:
Launch a mission to Kolob - more versions & info:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html

Where is the Lamanite DNA?
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/dna_additional.htm
Simon: http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com/

IMG 7666 2-28-2014 7:24am

response to: Wounded On The Battlefield -- The Mormon War on pleasure, masturbation, normal healthy human sexual expression, and freedom

The Mormon war on men's bits & pieces, and on liberating life changing sexual pleasure, is never ending, and yet they never admit to the crimes of their founding leaders.

Recently BYU Idaho, which is really a glorified de facto private high school formerly known as Ricks College, released a video via their Student Housing Department, called Wounded On The Battlefield. It's an anti-porn anti-masturbation propaganda video. Here it is:

And here is my response:

Joseph Smith & Brigham Young taking 14 or 15 year old girls to wife. Marrying the wives of other men (who were still married to the other men - check the wiki articles linked to here). And then there's the Mormon God, who must have an orgasm every 4.6 minutes to keep up with a total human population level of 107 billion people so far, created in say one million years.

In a cult the leader gets to have all the sex he wants, with whomever he wants. But it's the height of hypocrisy to be concerned about normal natural healthy otherwise-private activities of children & adults while at the same time failing to admit to and own up to the crimes of the founders of your stupid religion / cult.

Additional thoughts:
To the Mormon wife whose husband is 'addicted to porn:' 12 *real* steps that will help!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/07/to-mormon-wife-whos-husband-is-addicted.html

responses to continued mobot (Mormon) fear of sex
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/responses-to-continued-mobot-mormon.html

additional pages on masturbation:
https://www.google.com/#q=site:jonathanshome.blogspot.com+masturbation

a friend's pages on the subject
http://nowscape.com/mormon/mormast.htm
and http://nowscape.com/mormon/mormast2.htm

my own related journal:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/Mortal_Mormonism.htm

Joseph Smith's wives:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives

Brigham Young's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives
news references:
http://www.bustle.com/articles/14576-byu-idahos-wounded-on-the-battlefield-video-equates-masturbation-with-world-war
and
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/03/byu-idaho-anti-masturbation-video-war_n_4719599.html

Sexual experiences may well lead us to conclude that we don't need the Mormon God or the messed up Mormon Church. That's what the Mormon leaders fear.

Hey Mormon Missionaries: Where is the Lamanite DNA? Holding onto our values after leaving religion.

Comments about video:

Mr. Beeb is becoming more smart every day. We may go to the Utah State Fair again this weekend. They have some interesting art & paintings.

Yesterday during my lunch walk I got approached by bike by a couple of Mormon missionaries. They started with Moroni 10:3-5 that if you just pray & get a feeling that Mormonism is true that you will become convinced. They asked me how come people in the middle of Africa can get sucked into Mormonism. I told them that this happens because of a failing with how the human brain works. Next they told me that only when science & religion work together can both move forward. I told them there's been no Lamanite DNA found. They said that there's been Jewish DNA found in American Indians. However this is from a LATER migration - AFTER Columbus. Scientists can tell when a given genetic influence happened by genetic drift. Google T.G. Schurr, and also "Where is the Lamanite DNA," and also Simon Southerton for more info on all this. They ended with "you just have to have faith." I responded with: I think we need to rely on human nature, and try to value the good parts of human nature while curtailing the bad.

I can help you leave the Mormon Church, while holding onto your values.

Cultures which have had ZERO to do with your current or former religion have plenty of values! THAT'S the key thing both the ultra-rightie and the ultra-leftie should learn.

IMG 2762 9-13-2013 7:30am

Karezza is dangerous & abusive - reuniting.info: teaches us to be afraid of orgasms, very afraid

Shocker: Science reveals orgasms feels good.

Shocker: Science also shows certain drugs feel good.

Drug abuse - bad and therefore orgasm - bad.

Karezza!

art credit: http://www.15yearstolife.com/art1.htm

Welcome to the world of blue balls, prostate cancer, and inflamed epididymides & seminal vesicles.

And welcome once again to the world of sexual shaming, first brought to you by religious fucks, and now later by New Age nut jobs.

In Karezza they really really like orgasm avoidance, and fear about the natural hormonal & neurochemical cycles that come with sex.

One good example of all this bull is at the site reuniting.info.

Worrying about orgasming too soon is one thing. Yes, you should try to go longer. But not too long! Going days on end with painful blue balls, or having your partner "milk" your prostate so that you can avoid orgasm - that is wacky, strange, unnatural, and not healthy.

A relevant quote from these idiots:

...karezza is a gentle, affectionate form of intercourse in which orgasm is not the goal, and ideally does not occur in either partner while making love...

Karezza is not gentle. Worrying about whether you can avoid orgasming AT ALL is not gentle nor loving.

Karezza is not kind. Fearing orgasm, and having orgasm avoidance as the IDEAL situation, is not loving nor kind.

Kerezza is dangerous claptrap bullshit.

Further quote from:
http://www.nightlightastrology.com/1/post/2008/05/finding-peace-between-the-sheets.html

"...Marnia admits that she and her husband are not religious, both enjoy orgasms, and feel no sexual guilt. They simply feel very convicted about this one idea: orgasm addiction is an undercover problem, creating chaos between our sheets!..."

...misleading doubletalk. And being fearful of sex the same way one fears cocaine really is abusive. Sex is about life. Sex is about love. Sex is love. And so is orgasm. "Chaos between the sheets" - yes, that is part of sex. Don't be afraid of the wonderful chaos. Don't be afraid of the cycles of life. The ups and downs of life that come through sex - yes, you should learn to deal with them & embrace them, not be afraid of them.

Teaching people to avoid orgasm, as the ideal situation, really is abusive. That's the bottom line.

Here's a good quote I found at another site:

"...if someone said lets have sex but you won’t have an orgasm, I think most of us would rather go to bed...So on that note, I call Bullshit on Karezza, because sex without an orgasm is like hunger with no food"

As at http://lifeislikeaboxofcondoms.blogspot.com/2012/08/karezza-bullshit-or-shit.html

Fear the natural normal consequence of sex: orgasm! 

Teach your children to fear masturbation and what an orgasm might do to their brains Orgasms & brains - oh my, they should never mix!

...sounds all damn similar to the bullshit I learned in Mormonism about masturbation.

Here's a pertinent response to all that:

I have a penis,or: the evils of the Mormon stance on masturbation

as at http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/I_have_a_penis.htm

More relevant links:

The Mormon fear of masturbation & orgasm - a fear apparently shared by advocates of karezza:
http://nowscape.com/mormon/mormast.htm

Sin & Death in Mormon Country - deadly consequences to teaching children to fear masturbation & sex:
http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml

lds.org : discover the perversity or Mormonism:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html

reuniting.info and lds.org - the same shit just in different clothes, one from fucking hippies, and the other from fucking squares. Don't be sucked in by shame based quakery, from any side or source.

To recap:

Orgasm is good. Orgasms are good. Orgasms help your marriage! Orgasms help you be happy! Orgasms are healthy! Orgasms SHOULD be part of sex, most every time! Oh, and masturbation with orgasms is good also!
  
Yes, delaying orgasm can be fun and very useful - up to a point. Eventually you, your body, and your partner need an orgasm, and you should not be afraid of that either!

Mormon meeting house visit - 2-17-2013

My wife & son & I attended part of the Mormon meeting this morning. We tried some bread and water, listened to a couple of hymns, and part of a boring wrote-recitation-style talk by some lady. My son's fussiness gave us an excuse to escape early.

We went to the same meeting house where my father's family had Christmas parties when I was young. Last weekend the monk at the Salt Lake Buddhist Temple suggested that we just go back to our first religion. So today I followed his advice & we tried out Mormonism today. The result? Same old boring stuff. Oh, and the sound was up too loud in the place. On the way out we saw pictures of the leaders. As we passed by Spencer Kimball's photo we made note of his abhorrence for certain, if not most, expressions of sexuality.
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml
http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-violence-of-buddhism-relativism.html

lds.org : discover the perversity or Mormonism

lds.org : discover the perversity or Mormonism

Go to lds.org. Search for the following terms:

masturbation
necking
"petting"
fornication
atheist
atheism

Find out what these people actually think about the human condition.

Also, read the horrible book viewable at
http://web.archive.org/web/20100712035957/http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt
...by past Mormon prophet Spencer Kimball. While in that document do text searches for the same words.

Then in response, read the following reviews of this book:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-Forgiveness-Spencer-Kimball/product-reviews/0884944441/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

More info:

My own pages:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm

Audio from past exmormon conferences:
http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/conference-archive.html

Also current Mormon apostle believes that atheists are all moral relativists. What a bunch of bulls#|t. Atheists are humans too.

For example check out:
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2013/02/balancing-truth-and-tolerance
where Dallin Oaks says:

"...For example, an atheist has no need to decide what kinds and occasions of profanity or blasphemy can be tolerated and what kinds should be confronted. Persons who don’t believe in God or in absolute truth in moral matters can see themselves as the most tolerant of persons. For them, almost anything goes. This belief system can tolerate almost any behavior and almost any person. Unfortunately, some who believe in moral relativism seem to have difficulty tolerating those who insist that there is a God who should be respected and that there are certain moral absolutes that should be observed..."

My response: What a shallow, obtuse, non-sequitur, and just plain wrong evaluation of what & who atheists are. We fight against abusive religions like yours because there's good reason to do so. And no, being an atheist does not automatically make one a moral relativist. I am not one, Mr. Oaks.

Sam Harris, on science helping to determine that is moral (videos found):
https://www.youtube.com/results?q=moral+landscape

Myths about atheists - Mormon & other religious leaders are especially interested in putting out lies about atheists:
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/10-myths-and-10-truths-about-atheism1

Dawkins on atheist morality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aCRHjH6d4Q

Also check out the morality in the Bible, Quran, and Book of Mormon:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/BOM/index.htm

For each scriptural text you can find good sections about the complete lack of morality via clicking on the following terms:

Injustice

Cruelty and Violence

Intolerance

Contradictions

Science and History

Family Values

Interpretation

Misogyny

Sex

And what of the morality of Mormon leaders?

On oral sex, past Mormon prophet Spencer wants to get into your bedroom:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

On masturbation, past Mormon prophet Spencer Kimball & Mormon apostle Boyd Packer both want to have a look:
http://www.zionsbest.com/only.html
http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/masturbation.htm

Subverting normal human sexuality: Mormon Church's principal crime
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/subverting-normal-human-sexuality.html

Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, gets to have a 14 year old wife & wives who are still married to other men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith's_wives

Brigham Young, the second Mormon prophet, gets a 15 year old & wives still married to other men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young's_wives

Sin and Death in Mormon Country - about the costs of shaming children about masturbation:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080620075156/http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml

Review of the film Orgazmo, the Mormon temple film, and candiates for other films to show inside of Mormon temples

My review of the film Orgazmo, on January 2nd, 2013

Orgazmo is a particularly important film, especially in Utah. In my view they should replace the Mormon temple film, with the above film.

The above is the movie version of the Mormon temple endowment ceremony. The live version can be found by clicking here - as performed in the Salt Lake Temple.

Other good candidates for Mormon temple movie replacements:

Caligula

Intimacy

Destricted - played at Sundance in Salt Lake in 2006

When the God had sex with Mary, according to Family Guy:

An even more accurate video, showing Mormon space & Jesus theology, and how the Mormon God  had sex with Mary:

We were all just sperm in god's balls - a 12-22-2012 reprise of a song I composed some time ago - also good for viewing inside of Mormon temples:

Related review post from January 2nd, 2013:

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/01/orgazmo-film-mormonism-and-sex.html

Orgazmo film, Mormonism, and Sex

We watched Orgazmo during the past few days & enjoyed it very much.

Here's the film on youtube:

and more info about the film:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgazmo

Trey Parker has apparently had a fascination with Mormon culture, although as an outsider he doesn't quite understand everything. For example his portrayal of a Mormon family in the South Park episode All About Mormons he portrays a Mormon family as being more happy than other families, and that a kid in that family didn't really care about the wacky stuff in this religion. But his portrayal of what life is really like in Mormon families is not quite accurate. There's also a lot of pain, stress, and guilt. Also in Utah there's a great deal of anti-depressant use. Here's the video of the episode:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s07e12-all-about-mormons
and more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_About_Mormons

When I first saw Orgazmo several years ago I knew the best thing that could happen would be for all Mormons, especially all old the fart Mormon leaders, to immediately receive the influence of the following device, an orgazmorator.

When they're up there in General Conference giving stuffy nosed I-am-so-important-when-I-speak-in-a-low-voice pompous pious speeches, the best thing that could ever happen would be for such a device to be activated, so that they & all the crowd assembled would be similarly affected.

Related info:
http://www.salamandersociety.com/media/movies/ryans/
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,23229

When Spencer Kimball hyperventilated and dreamed of necking, petting, heavy petting, masturbation, and oral sex, all while he wrote the following documents, I'm sure he would have benefited from such a device.
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml - make special note of this page
http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt

Related video:

Mormonism & oral sex - Hi, I'm a Mormon, or I was one for 26 years.

 
Related posts from last year:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012_12_01_archive.html

---

Video review added on January 4, 2013:

Review of the film Orgazmo, the Mormon temple film, and candiates for other films to show inside of Mormon temples

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/01/review-of-film-orgazmo-mormon-temple.html

responses to continued mobot (Mormon) fear of sex

Recently I discovered that Miracle of Forgiveness is available at the mobot distribution centers, in several different languages. In each language section they have the BOM, maybe a bible, but always this POS book.
http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt

Very appropriate responses to this book can be found in the form of one star reviews at Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-of-Forgiveness-ebook/product-reviews/B002JQK1VG/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

Since the Mormon Church apparently considers this book to still be highly relevant, then every despicable thing Spencer Kimball & Boyd Packer have done relative to negative portrayals of human sexuality to the youth & adults in the church is relevant also.

On oral sex, Spencer wants to get into your bedroom:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

On masturbation, Spencer & Boyd both want to have a look:
http://www.zionsbest.com/only.html
http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/masturbation.htm

Also Spencer really is concerned about "petting" and "heavy petting." Oh my, that f-ing old fart must really have been hyperventilating when he wrote his Miracle of Forgiveness book. Necking. Petting. Heavy Petting. Tell us more Spencer, about all the things you dream about at night but also hate yourself for thinking of.

But people say he was such a nice man. My father has said this, as did my mother who worked as a nurse in the COB. But the guy was really not so nice after all, after you read all hateful the trash he put out.

Here's a related blog post:
Subverting normal human sexuality: Mormon Church's principal crime
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/subverting-normal-human-sexuality.html

Anyway, with my new wife seeing the pretty white shirts and the pretty buildings, and with my more recent research into the issue of Kimball's trash book being widely promoted in different languages by the mobot church, I decided to put on youtube a reprise of a song I created some time ago:

We were all just sperm in god's balls, a parody of the song Seeds:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/we-were-all-just-sperm-in-gods-balls.html

And, with Joseph Smith's nutty view of heaven in the form of Kolob, and "Kobol" entering the common consciousness in the form of the much less campy newer Battlestar Galatica version, the following newer song came out of a recent morning shower singing session:

Launch a Mission to Kolob...
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html

Joseph gets to have a 14 year old wife & wives who are still married to other men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith's_wives

Brigham gets a 15 year old & wives still married to other men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young's_wives

But, Spencer & Boyd really were/are obsessed with that you and your children are up to at home, at night, in the privacy of your bedrooms. What's up with that? And since Spencer's piece of trash book is *very* relevant for the Mormon Church, as per their having it readily available in many different languages at their distribution centers, (and reportedly since it's required reading for new missionaries) it's clear that they are still very interested in transmitting this human spirit destroying set of memes onto everyone they can.

What is up with the Mormon Church & sex? Their horn dog founder created a religion whose god, apparently, has to have an orgasm every 4.6 minutes to create 107 billion people in one million years.

107 billion people may have lived on Earth so far:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2097038/Are-really-people-alive-today-lived-Earth.html
...and that number doesn't account for "worlds without end."

Perhaps the Mormon God is rather like a giant space termite:
http://www.termite.com/images/queenking.jpg
...that would be more fitting.

Is your god an alien?
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/kolob_tract.htm

...and yet, now they want to very much control even the mere thought of sex in their members. Why? Because once a person actually allows themselves to be open to the possibility of sex being fun, normal, natural, empowering, and liberating, they can more easily find they have no use for the Mormon God or for the supposedly good feelings you get during Mormon Church meetings or from reading the lies of Joseph in the form of the Mormon scriptures.

The Mormon Church tries to hijack people's basic emotions, and to subvert & control & misinterpret them for their own nefarious ends. Some other religions do this also.

In any case I get much better feelings of validation from the love of my wife & new son than I ever got in mostly boring Mormon Church meetings, and from the occasional good feelings they claimed "proved" their church was correct. There's a price to be paid for pretty white shirts and pretty buildings.

If feelings can be used as a form of validation, then that means the much better feelings I've had since leaving indicates that their lies were incorrect.

Jonathan

Current blog: http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/
Legacy website: http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/one/jonathan.html
Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/chinadreams888

Launch a Mission to Kolob, and blow the place up!

Three videos expressing an interest in launching a mission to Kolob, the Mormon God's homeworld, and blowing the place up:

December 14, 2012:

December 17 version & addendum:

December 18 reprise:

Let's launch a mission to Kolob baby, and blow the place up. Launch a mission to Kolob honey, before it's to late. There's no oral sex on Kolob, and no one named Rex. There's also no masturbation, and no one named Nate. The Mormon God lives on Kolob, with his many wives. The Mormon Jesus is there too... Hostile aliens all. Joseph Smith is there also, with his 14 year old wife & the wives of other men. Brigham Young is there also, with his 15 year old wife & also wives who are still wives of other men. Spencer Kimball, that fucking old fart, is there also, helping everyone know the evils of oral sex, masturbation, petting, and "heavy petting" (OMG WTF LOL). They're all there on Kolob my friend, with the Mormon God. So let's launch a mission to Kolob, before more people's core being is quashed & destroyed.

More info:
Is your god an alien?
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/kolob_tract.htm

More info on Mormonism from a former Mormon Missionary & Mormon Temple Worker:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm

More recent thoughts, observations and rants:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com

The principal crime of Mormonism - subverting normal human sexuality:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/subverting-normal-human-sexuality.html

Kolob homeworld meme set initiated message prohibiting oral sex:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
page two:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

Responses from others on the issue of the Mormon approach to sex:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-of-Forgiveness-ebook/product-reviews/B002JQK1VG/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

So, it's not all about "white shirts" and "family." If you reject having to kiss the ass of their leaders & their hostile alien god, you may well get kicked out of & rejected by your "family." They put their church & their god above family - so that's not real & true family values my friend.

Subverting normal human sexuality: Mormon Church's principal crime

Problems with Mormonism that the never-been-a-Mormon media has no concept of & needs to be educated about:

"The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."

http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
page two:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

The author of the above policy wrote the following book:
http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt

In mobot distribution centers they have, in several prominent languages, the Book of Mormon, maybe the family home evening manual, but always this POS book.

"...Steps to Fornication
Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, pregnancy, and abortions all ugly sins but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Paul wrote as if to modern young people who deceive themselves that their necking and petting are but expressions of love: 'Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves.' (Rom 1:24.) How could the evils of petting be more completely described?"

"Too often, young people dismiss their petting with a shrug of their shoulders as a little indiscretion, while admitting that fornication is a base transgression. Too many of them are shocked, or feign to be, when told that what they have done in the name of petting was in reality fornication. The dividing line is a thin, blurry one, and Paul probably referred to these sins ranging from petting to fornication when he said: 'For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.' (Eph. 5:12.) And the Lord perhaps was referring to this evil when in our own time he was reiterating the Ten Commandments: '... Neither commit adultery, nor kill, nor do anything like unto it.' (D&C 59:6.)
Our young people should know that their partners in sin will not love or respect them if they have freedom in fondling their bodies. Such a practice destroys respect, not only for the other person but for self. It destroys the ultimate respect for virtue. And it ignores the oft-repeated prophetic warning that one should give his or her life rather than to yield to loss of virtue."

"Too many have lost themselves completely in sin through this doorway of necking and petting. The devil knows how to destroy our young girls and boys. He may not be able to tempt a person to murder or to commit adultery immediately, but he knows that if he can get a boy and a girl to sit in the car late enough after the dance, or to park long enough in the dark at the end of the lane, the best boy and the best girl will finally succumb and fall. He knows that all have a limit to their resistance."

"Those who have received the Holy Ghost after baptism certainly know that all bodily contacts of this kind are pernicious and abominable. They recognize too that the God of yesterday, today, and tomorrow continues to demand continence and to require that people come to the marriage altar as virgins, clean and free from sex experience..."

"...Almost like twins,'petting' and especially 'heavy petting' and fornication are alike. Also like twins, the one precedes the other, but most of the same characteristics are there. The same passions are aroused and, with but slight difference, similar bodily contacts are made. And from it are likely to come the same frustrations, sorrows, anguish, and remorse."

"All those who have slipped into the disgraceful and most reprehensible habit of transgressing through petting should immediately change their lives, their habits, and their thought patterns, repent sorely in 'sackcloth and ashes,' and by confession get so far as possible a clearance from the Lord and the leaders of his Church so that a measure of peace may accompany them through their lives. To those who have been properly taught and who have properly appraised the evils and have restrained and protected themselves from these foul acts, God bless them and help them to continue their virginity and cleanness, that they may never have the remorse and anguish which has or will come to their brothers and sisters who have indulged..."

...what a load of hate filled human spirit destroying garbage.

Apt responses found online from your fellow humans:

"Because this book is a crime against humanity and he should have been tried for ever releasing it upon the world. Hundreds of thousands, perhaps a million or more people have suffered terribly as a result of being A) Human and B) manipulated or in some cases forced to read this pile of filth. Save yourself the 8-10 hours it takes to read it cover to cover and go to your nearest Mormon 'priesthood' holder and ask them to punch you in the face several times. It will be less painful."
http://www.amazon.com/review/R18WLDDC75NVFK/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R18WLDDC75NVFK

"I want to burn this book... This is by far the most deplorable book i have ever read. I wanted to burn it so no one else could ever read it, but instead i keep it hidden as a reminder to why i have no desire to ever be a lds, morg bot... My husband was born and raised lds i was seriously considering a full conversion and having our marriage sealed in the temple... That is until i found this book amongst his things..."

"The sin next to murder are you serious!!! 'A woman who has be raped should wish herself dead.' 'A parent should wish their child dead rather than have them commit the sin next to murder'"

"As i woman how has been through a rape I feel it is deplorable that anyone would ever suggest such a heinous thought to someone who is already struggling and dealing with the emotional ans psychological damage that last forever... Shame on you spencer kimball shame on anyone who would ever recommend or even suggest someone read this book..."

"I am human therefor i have sinned... Not one person on this earth Spencer Kimball included is with out sin..."

"I am worthy and i don't need to pay the lds corporation 10% of my gross income for their stamp of approval, nor do i need to enter the waste of money temple and buy their magical underpants..."

"Thank you Spencer Kimball. Had it not been for this horrific book i most likely would have become another lds drone."
from http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-of-Forgiveness-ebook/product-reviews/B002JQK1VG/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

"Destructive fear- and hate-mongering...
In Kimball's book, everybody is evil, including the coffee drinker, but none more so than the homosexual. Kimball finds it regrettable that today's society is more tolerant towards homosexuals than in Old Testament times when homosexuals and other fornicators were stoned to death. No wonder gay mormons are driven to suicide, and not only gay mormons, but all mormons will inevitably fail to live up to Kimball's impossible moral standards (one possible reason people in Utah consume so much antidepressants). This book is guaranteed to cause lots of despair, hopelessnes and crushed self-esteem among many readers. It's just about the worst book you could give to someone who's struggling with any type of personal problem (statements like "one should give his or her life rather than to yield to loss of virtue" could even be interpreted as to encourage suicide, althouh that, too, is a sin as we learn in a later chapter). He also describes 'sins against the Holy Ghost', which are unforgivable, even if repented."

"'The Miracle of Forgiveness' is an example of religious propaganda at its worst. It is designed to keep the flock in line by preventing critical thinking (which is denounced as the sin of rebellion) and demanding obedience to religious authorities (ie the LDS church leaders, including the author); even failure to pay tithes is a sin. The author also spends a lot of time complaining about the declining morals of modern society, where women wear shorts in public and work instead of being housewives and people play golf instead of observing the Sabbath. It's written with a holier-than-thou attitude and the author's contempt and dislike for humanity in general and "sexual deviants" in particular, is evident throughout the whole book. Kimball likes to give examples of people who have come to him seeking help and these meetings inevitably end with him giving them a condescending lecture about their moral failings. I knew the LDS church was strict but I didn't know they had the type of misanthropic, cold-hearted, taliban mentality they must have to promote this fear-and hate-mongering book."

also from amazon.

And another:
"Criminalization of all things sex...
This book almost killed me. I became suicidal because of ordinary masturbation instincts because I believed in this charlatanism.
The author is preoccupied with sex. Actual criminal conduct is given token mention, then the book dives into the deep end of an anti-sexual preoccupation that would make Kinsey turn over in his grave. It equates homosexuality to beastiality, and makes clear that sexual "sins" are next to murder in severity. This book is the source of the infamous lore in Mormonism that they'd rather bury a child than see them lose their purity."
"Thousands of mormon youth and gays have committed suicide because of sheer psychological malpractice like this. I denounce this book in the strongest terms I can. I have no doubt whatsoever that this book has cost lives. Mine was spared by only seconds.
Shame on you who recommend this book to anyone, but especially youth where it does the most damage."

This page,
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-of-Forgiveness-ebook/product-reviews/B002JQK1VG/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0
is a great example of why W-H-Y there are problems with being an adherent Mormon. Read it closely when considering the costs to having pretty white shirts and pretty buildings.

Some have even died as a result of Kimball's toxic dogma:
http://web.archive.org/web/20120701205227/http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml

And yet, horn dogs Joseph & Brigham got to have all the wives they wanted, 14 & 15 year olds, even those who were married to other men:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives

my own related pages:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm
and
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/
and
http://www.youtube.com/user/chinadreams888

and for this topic, here's a relevant video found:

Keep your Jesus off my penis...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHjsaEK4vnw

What was it like, when God had sex with Mary?

Today I found a Family Guy clip about the conception of Jesus, and that reminded of the following question:

What was it like, when God had sex with Mary?

Even in Catholicism, how did the Holy Ghost overshadow Mary's vajayjay?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajayjay

Here's Mormon references for your spiritual and humor-bone edification:
http://www.mormonwiki.org/Conception_of_Jesus
http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon385.htm

Here's the relevant Family Guy clip:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2fhb16QP-dA

And my own video commentary is attached below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OymNAUmVUBY

Relevant clip from an older film, showing Elohim knocking on the door of Mary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgBNVcY6ro8&t=2m58s

Also, whodathunkit, Joseph Smith thought Jesus was married also?

The whole video is interesting and is mostly accurate.

Here's more on the Catholic version, where a guy in a sheet gets to have sex with her...
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_life_of_jesus/jesus_is_born_02/lk01_35.html

The Mormon oral sex letter stating it's bad:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

And yet, Joseph & Brigham had 14 & 15 year old wives & also wives who were still married to other men:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives

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Additional thoughts, regarding the issue of marrying young & whether people in the past married at 14 or 15:

In this case I would have a slightly easier time sympathizing with 17 or 16. There are some older looking 14 year olds. Both Joseph & Brigham took other men's wives as brides. Also consider Aisha:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
and the lego version of Moohamed's meeting with her at age nine:
http://mattseanbachman.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/mohammed-lego.png

Relevant quote: "...According to traditional sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated..."

Maybe on a Fiddler on the Roof type of scenario 14 is ok, if one or the other are 14 or 15 are they are in love. But some older cult leader took taking a 14 year old to wife, that's when the icky poo factor comes in more. Also Moohamed having a 9 year old one was not so good.

Moohamed was a great man though, nine year old fully consummated bride and all, according to the national Unitarian organization:

http://www.isna.net/uploads/1/5/7/4/15744382/uu_muslim_interfaith_guide.pdf
[previously at: http://www.uusc.org/files/BBToolkit_uu_muslim_interfaith_guide.pdf ]

But Islam is about social justice, right? According to muff brained Unitarians, Amy Goodman, and Reza Aslan. Sometimes we go to Unitarian meetings, but we don't go to the congregation where they said Mohamed was a "great man who cared about women & treated them well," and for the one we do sometimes go to we'll be monitoring any religious education curricula to ensure it's not whitewashing dogma. Liberals can have dishonest religion too...

Related blog post:
Unitarian Universalist fawning appreciation of Mohammad and Islam:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2010/12/unitarian-universalist-fawning.html

I'm personally all for "marrying young" and evening having babies young if a couple feels so inclined, but when when at least one of the parties is under say 18 or 21, then the age difference should be less than can be common for people over 18 or 21. And the whole cult or warlord leader taking yougin' to wife is a different scenario from similarly aged youngsters hooking up.