Walking along Lagoon Trail, also known as Farmington Creek Trail - February 21, 2014

Walking along Lagoon Trail also known as Farmington Creek Trail

2-21-2014 4:07pm

Life on Kolob: Endless sex & a lot of pigu kissing; Johnny Lingo; 8 cow wife; Lamanite DNA

Johnny Lingo; 8 cow wife. Mormon films and productions fall into a scale with at least two dimensions: campy versus professional, and anally retentive versus friendly.

The film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfahoLfrddU

Chat with a Mormon:
http://mormon.org/chat
...chat with a brain washed person - today.

My responses:
Launch a mission to Kolob - more versions & info:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html

Where is the Lamanite DNA?
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/dna_additional.htm
Simon: http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com/

IMG 7666 2-28-2014 7:24am

Ukraine; sex should result in children; atheist religion; capitol building should be open

On Ukraine & Russia: Russia is lying.

About Jian Ghomeshi & Terry Gross: the childless-gay interviews of public radio.

The way you love does matter.

If you love the wrong way you might just get AIDS, die, and leave your straight family with no father.

You can have abuses on both sides.

Atheists of Utah: one big problem with this group is that the focal point for their activities is attending the yearly gay pride festival in Salt Lake.

Regarding human sexuality: Unless kids come along naturally, you can end up with a life that goes nowhere.

Inherently non-reproductive sexuality does, in the long term, go nowhere.

To my fellow atheists & naturalists: will you try to eject me from your de facto church?

I can see why Tom in Portland went back to evangelical Christianity. Poor dating prospects in the secular groups, which are usually highly populated by gay fat women with strange hair.

Having kids is a good thing.

We need to reform atheist groups: extracting such groups from the dogmatism of the left.

Currently if you don't adhere to the ultra-liberal agenda you will undergo a heresy & excommunication trial in many secular / atheist / naturalist groups.

Regarding the GCHQ spying on the intimate activities of people who use Yahoo Messenger to have webcam chats: That does go too far. Gathering connection to connection data into a large database is one thing. But keeping content data, and being able to watch en-masse webcam chats by regular people, without court approval for each search of actual content does go too far.

The U.S. Capitol Building should be returned to the people, for open walking around. Right now it is most definitely not a "temple of freedom." Perhaps the Congress can go work elsewhere, and have the building returned to the people. An initial security scan is ok at the door. But after that people should be free to walk around the building. Until then, it is not, nor will it ever be, a "temple of freedom" as is claimed in the current mandatory film they show to all visitors at present.

Commentary on pronunciation issues with English. John Boehner's last name should be pronounced boner, not bayner. English is English. Pakistan is Pakistan, not Paaaakaaastaaaaan. It's France, not Fronce. It's Mexico, not Mehico. And so on. English is English. If Mr. Boner wants people to pronounced his name as Bayner then he should change the spelling of his last name.

On NPR - National Politically Correct Radio

2-27-2014 7:30am 3:23pm

Tay Do Supermarket: Seller of rotten food. Plus more comments on Ukraine.

Commentary about our weekend activities:

1. A visit to a Mormon meeting, to pick up my father so that we could go to a museum with him.

2. A visit to the Natural History Museum of Utah so see their chocolate exhibit.

3. Sadly, two visits to a disreputable grocery store that sold us rotten food. Details below regarding that issue...

Also commentary about the recent events in Ukraine. Perhaps Viktor Yanukovych can go live with Edward Snowden in Russia...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden

Regarding item 3 above:

Rotten food sold by:
Tay Do Supermarket
3825 South Redwood Road
West Valley City, Utah (Salt Lake valley).

Manufactured by: Woo Kee Inc., S. El Monte, California 91733

Product name: Fresh Rice Rolls

Problems found: Tasted rotten. My wife (who is from China and who is an expert regarding rice products) detected mold/mildew on the rolls.

Full UPC: 6 34913 00068 2

Net weight 20 oz.

Cost of item: $2.99 plus tax.

No expiration date listed on rolls, even though they were freshly cooked by the manufacturer.

Store refused to take product back for a refund, or for an exchange for a DIFFERENT product. They wanted to just provide to us the SAME product in exchange. Store told us that the food they sell is perishable, and that they have no responsibility for it's status after it leaves the store. "You takes your chances for the food you buy from us because we refuse to stand behind it, or to properly investigate problems with the food we sell." - This is an accurate description of their stance. It's a stance that may be common in Vietnam or China, but it's rather uncommon here.

Here's a list of stores which do readily take products back, and which are very interested in detecting problems with the food they sell: Trader Joe's, Smiths (Kroger), Winco, and even Walmart. These Asian stores simply need an education that this is America, and in America stores tend to care more about the safety of the food they sell.

When stores refuse to take food back for refund or exchange, that promotes the following: a.) the selling of unsafe food, and b.) a failure to take responsibility for the selling of unsafe food, and c.) no ready method of correction for the selling of unsafe food. Thankfully stores like those I mentioned starting with Trader Joe's GLADLY take food back - because they CARE about their customers and food safety!

But sadly when Asian merchants come to America they assume that the Asian way of doing business is how they should act here - but it ain't! In America we care about food safety, ok? Welcome to America Mr. or Mrs. Asian-immigrant grocery store owner. We like buying Asian food here, yes that's true, but not food that's rotten or spoiled, and not such food from stores which refuse to take any responsibility for the food they sell.

When my Chinese wife shared our experience at Tay Do with her friends, they were surprised. "This happens in America?," they said. Yes it does - when grocer immigrants bring a criminal lack-of-responsibility unsafe food selling culture here it does. In China & Vietnam the grocers may well not take responsibility for the food they sell. "You takes your chances, and after food leaves our store we take no responsibility for it!" Ok, that's the way people do things in China & Vietnam. But in America when stores & food manufacturers try this, relevant governmental agencies will hear about what happened, and the consumers who report problems won't go to jail for complaining (like they can do in China & Vietnam).

Relevant photos of the rotten food:

Where's the expiration date?

And notice their angry statement on the above receipt "NO REFUNDS & EXCHANGES!"

Translate this to me: We can sell you shitty spoiled rotten food, and take NO responsibility for it. Yeah, such a stance really promotes food satefy.


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IMG 7620 2-24-2014 7:29am

recent travels: science & creationist museums & Antelope Island

Visit to The Museum of Ancient Life at Thanksgiving Point, Lehi, Utah. February 8, 2014

http://youtu.be/lHcDy3w0rUs

Natural History Museum of Utah visit on February 9, 2014.

http://youtu.be/TSkft7W0m7Q

Antelope Island, February 16, 2014

http://youtu.be/9pNo1yBY-LY

Additional info is on the youtube page for each video.

thoughts on Ukraine - February 2014

Ukraine has been in the news recently. In Portland I met a very nice family from Ukraine, an experience which led in part to a desire to seek about seeking a wife from there. That experience resulted in the following:

1. Several blind dates, with about 30% normal women, 50% women who wanted nothing more than a free meal from an American man, and 20% outright thieving women.

These dates were orchistrated via the following sites:

http://www.kievconnections.com
and http://www.elenasmodels.com

2. Tours of sites in Ukraine which normal tourists would never see. Swimming in a large river near Kiev. Touring cathedrals & seeing the circus. Visit to Soviet-era-looking towns and staying in similar style hotels. Visits to Odessa & the surrounding area. Odessa was known as a city of thieves. It still deserves that label, unfortunately.

A pretty face can bring ready cash. Pretend to be interested in real relationships with foreign men, and suddenly, cha-ching, the cash starts flowing in. Yes there are certainly honest hard working down to Earth people in Ukraine. It's just that most such people do not, in my view & experience, visit agencies to help them meet foriegn men to marry. It's something about the culture perhaps.

China is different. Chinese women. You will have better luck with women from China. Less likely to cheat & deceive. More hard working. A higher liklihood that you will be approached honestly & for the same purpose as you are out looking. Women not just looking for a free meal or a one night stand.

Anyway, so far I've created two video commentaries about Ukraine since they've been in the news recently.

Ukraine, freedom, dating scams, thieves, dating advise, & related thoughts - 2-20-2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed0XK8CQc4Y

Mr. Beeb and the Birdies; more thoughts on Ukraine; the naivete of liberal relativism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aZLm-ZAjN8

Commentary included with video 1:

Check out:
https://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-feb-19-live-updates-337098.html

Oh my. The place is trashed. What's my impression of Ukraine?

1. Some normal honest people.
2. A great number of thieves present. Here's one example: http://www.romancescam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32263

In Portland I met a very nice family from Ukraine. Before coming to my senses and marrying a nice woman from China, I went on some blind dates with some Ukraine women. Some were normal. Some were just wanted a free meal / date. And at least one or two were outright thieves.

Also the wallet drop scam was tried on me in downtown Kiev right near the central square where a lot of the fighting is currently happening.
https://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/kyivs-scammers-target-easy-prey-foreigners-30791.html

Why does Moscow care so much about Kiev? Because that's where their ancestors came from. But if they want to all be Ukrainian at heart why did they move to Moscow?

Russians want Ukraine to essentially be & remain a de facto Russian state / province. But a lot of Ukrainians don't appreciate the boot of Putin.

In a bar in Odessa I remember one man telling me "we just want people outside of Ukraine to view it like it's a regular normal country."

If the protests succeed and if the place can be one where the former PM is not imprisoned by the current president and so on, then perhaps the man's dream can come true.

As for the dating scam women and all of the wallet dropping scam men, I rather hope they all move somewhere else. Maybe to Putin's neighborhood.

Related book:
Tales Of Old Odessa: Crime And Civility In A City Of Thieves
http://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/tales-old-odessa-crime-and-civility-city-thieves
http://www.amazon.com/Tales-Old-Odessa-Civility-Thieves/dp/0875803466

City of thieves indeed. There are normal down to Earth honest people in Ukraine, but they are unfortunately surrounded by a bunch of crooks. Maybe the normal people want to throw the crooks out.

2-20-2014 7:35am and afternoon

Commentary included with video 2:

Mr. Beeb and the Birdies; more thoughts on Ukraine; the naivete of liberal relativism.

Regarding Ukraine I found the following this morning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DxkDiAcSF8
as on the BBC for a time and at
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-feb-21-live-updates-337287.html

To find, in my view & opinion, 30% normal women, 50% women who are interested in nothing more than a free meal from a foreigner (and a one night stand with a big spender), and 20% women who are outright thieves visit: http://www.kievconnections.com
About the same odds later findable at: http://www.elenasmodels.com

Recommendations instead for dating & marriage: In the first instance first hand interaction & offline introductions. Online later, but only AFTER a real flesh & blood first hand introduction by a friend or college. This applies both to seeking someone here or abroad. And in my view and first hand experience, women from China will tend to be more honest with you regarding what exactly they're approaching you for than women from Ukraine, Russia, or similar countries. Yes there are honest down to Earth women in the former-USSR countries, but you have to do more sifting to find them. Does the woman want to go buy expensive shoes or clothing immediate after your first dinner date? Is she eager for you to meet her family? Does she call you at odd hours of the night to request emergency cash? All these are signs that you're simply being used.

Anyway I'm lucky to have found the woman I did, and that friends in the US were able to help coordinate our initial contact. A beautiful son has so far been the result.

Regarding politics, liberalism & conservatism: My preference is to now take the Hitchens approach. Question everything in the first instance, and then see where the evidence lies. Sometimes conservative or moderate ideals end up being correct, after examining sufficient evidence. A hard truth for a liberal to admit.

2-21-2014 7:22am

A high abundance of angel readers and other nutjobs within the gay "lifestyle"

Do psychic whackjobs really believe their own claptrap?

Read carefully the following example: http://goo.gl/ea9C6A

$100 per hour. $50 per half hour. What a bargain. Contact your dead loved ones. Find out all your medical problems. Oh my.

Oh, and what about the fun spelling errors at http://goo.gl/6gqjHk

The fruity flakey nature of the man's mother didn't help with his propensity to be sucked into such claptrap.

Here's one friend of the man in question:
"Predator was coach, Scout chief" http://goo.gl/vmC2J8

How nice.

I now have no contact with the whackjob psychic in question, and upon reflection I'm glad to also have no association moving forward with his friends, such as the abusive ex-con mentioned on the third site listed above.

Not everything is black & white, nice and pleasant, happy & healthy, in the "gay" community... Crass narcissism. Endless petty vain tail chasing. New-Age moonbattery. Easy acceptance of other abusers. These attributes are common in the culture.

Unitarians are the most accepting people? If you're too accepting you might just get AIDS, die, and leave your straight family with no father.

Family Values Atheism: Questioning liberal dogma -- the Gay Flag: Freaks Welcome Here -- questioning gay marriage -- secular reparative therapy (choosing to live straight)
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/family-values-atheism-questioning.html

No, I ain't one, but after first hand exposure via my gay nephew & attendance within him at many gay parties and a few gay bars, I can see why someone would want to "live straight."

Living straight means: A more productive life, one which naturally includes the ready possibility of children. A life that doesn't require frequent contact with new age nutjobs and vain petty narcissists. A life which isn't, by default and without great effort to avoid it, a dead end. Anyway...

response to: Wounded On The Battlefield -- The Mormon War on pleasure, masturbation, normal healthy human sexual expression, and freedom

The Mormon war on men's bits & pieces, and on liberating life changing sexual pleasure, is never ending, and yet they never admit to the crimes of their founding leaders.

Recently BYU Idaho, which is really a glorified de facto private high school formerly known as Ricks College, released a video via their Student Housing Department, called Wounded On The Battlefield. It's an anti-porn anti-masturbation propaganda video. Here it is:

And here is my response:

Joseph Smith & Brigham Young taking 14 or 15 year old girls to wife. Marrying the wives of other men (who were still married to the other men - check the wiki articles linked to here). And then there's the Mormon God, who must have an orgasm every 4.6 minutes to keep up with a total human population level of 107 billion people so far, created in say one million years.

In a cult the leader gets to have all the sex he wants, with whomever he wants. But it's the height of hypocrisy to be concerned about normal natural healthy otherwise-private activities of children & adults while at the same time failing to admit to and own up to the crimes of the founders of your stupid religion / cult.

Additional thoughts:
To the Mormon wife whose husband is 'addicted to porn:' 12 *real* steps that will help!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/07/to-mormon-wife-whos-husband-is-addicted.html

responses to continued mobot (Mormon) fear of sex
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/responses-to-continued-mobot-mormon.html

additional pages on masturbation:
https://www.google.com/#q=site:jonathanshome.blogspot.com+masturbation

a friend's pages on the subject
http://nowscape.com/mormon/mormast.htm
and http://nowscape.com/mormon/mormast2.htm

my own related journal:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/Mortal_Mormonism.htm

Joseph Smith's wives:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives

Brigham Young's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives
news references:
http://www.bustle.com/articles/14576-byu-idahos-wounded-on-the-battlefield-video-equates-masturbation-with-world-war
and
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/03/byu-idaho-anti-masturbation-video-war_n_4719599.html

Sexual experiences may well lead us to conclude that we don't need the Mormon God or the messed up Mormon Church. That's what the Mormon leaders fear.

Philip Seymour Hoffman was a druggie who betrayed his family

Philip Seymour Hoffman was a great arrr-tiest (artist), who in my view was also (and most importantly) a druggie who betrayed his family. The guy had three kids and an ex-partner whom in my view he betrayed - and that's the most important thing we can say about the man.

What would we think of the guy if he were not a "great" actor? Just some man or woman who died of a drug overdose, with perhaps (according to news reports & the police) ~70 bags of heroin in his apartment? We'd rightly conclude they were incredibly petty, stupid, vain, shallow, and unfit to be a parent. A man or woman who betrayed his three kids & family.

This business of separating the artist from his or her supposedly-separate personal life  is wrong headed & immoral, but it's par for the course for liberal dogmatists who hold so very tightly to their relativism.

Roman Polanski, and possibly Woody Allen (as per claims by his ex-wife & some of his kids), are also examples of men who have acted in incredibly slimy ways. Oh, they're such great artists? Who cares, right? No. People shouldn't get a pass on such matters just because they won the Hollywood or Sundance popularity contest.

Perhaps Hollywood should just go trolling for new directors at the local prison and mental institute. Perhaps this is what they've already done.

Drugs can hijack your built in by evolution by natural selection brain reward circuitry. Also just because something is "natural" doesn't mean it's safe. Chemicals are chemicals, and "natural" plants and naturally-derived chemicals can F you up just as much as any man made chemical can. Thus harmful drugs such as marijuana & heroin should remain illegal, but people should not be locked away if they take them. Instead there should be mandatory treatment programs, and mandatory check ins and monitoring.

There are natural highs that are ok, such as sex, good & healthy food, positive social interaction, helping others, etc. But adding dangerous chemicals to your brain which force your reward circuitry into overdrive can permanently damage how the system works.

Perhaps the guy wanted to portray Truman Capote for a reason. Two peas in the pod. But self destructive people need proper intervention, and they should be properly called out when they're betraying their own family.

So you're a great artist, but also a druggie or worse? Who cares about your artistry. Get yourself cleaned up, and then perhaps we'll check out whether you've painted a pretty picture or not.

------------

February 7, 2014 addendum:

Comments posted in response to the following blog:

Phillip Seymour Hoffman did not have choice or free will and neither do you.
http://debbiebayerblog.com/2014/02/04/phillip-seymour-hoffman-did-not-have-choice-or-free-will-and-neither-do-you/
Comment 1:

I can see why Daniel Dennett considers the Harris view on free will insidious. Does the crack mom have a choice? Does the abusive father? Does the abusive Catholic Priest? Yes, absolutely they do have a choice. More choice than an amoeba. More choice than a carrot. More choice than a cat, dog, or lion. More choice than Sam Harris and presumably you will allow for.

Hoffman’s actions were no better than that of a crack mother in my view. He had three kids. He very much WAS responsible for his actions. Irresponsible. Abusive. Retrograde. And so on.
more thoughts:

------------

Someone then replied with mention of Jesus. Here's my reply to them - Comment 2:

1. Do abusers have a choice? Yes. Do they have free will? Yes, in the compatibilist sense that Daniel Dennett talks about & which I very much agree with. The level of choice, and the ability to make what could reasonably be stated to be good choices, varies depending on the individual. Regardless though dangerous people should be locked up. And non-violent druggies should be forced into treatment & mandatory rehab programs by the law (not into prison).

2. Mention of Jesus has little sway with me as I'm not a believer in him. The Biblical Jesus judged plenty of people, as do many of his followers in spite of the admonition to not judge. In fact for the past 2000 years they've done >nothing but< judge others, and in many cases to kill others for their lack of belief in Jesus.

But, we should judge people, reasonably. And we should be judged, in reasonable ways. We are judged by our peers all the time. That's how human society works. We're social animals. And cheaters, rightly, get called out for cheating. And dangerous outliers are locked up - and that's a good thing.

3. Rather than devote time to prayer, may I suggest devoting time to real things that will help. Intervention into the lives of people who're virtually drowning is one good task. More people should have intervened in the life of Phillip Seymour Hoffman. His neighbors. The police. A judge could have ordered him into treatment.

Who failed Hoffman? His sycophantic admirers, his fellow Hollywood druggie friends, and the press. Also the probably underpaid police for not catching him earlier. 70 bags of heroin is a lot. Rich & poor should be treated equally I agree - not prison. Instead all non-dealers should be routed to mandatory treatment & mandatory follow ups. Also mandatory inspections of the living quarters of affected people. It takes some tax money. Jesus isn't enough. Real flesh & blood in person people need to be there to do the work. But it's cheaper in the long run to pay for in person intervention than to pay for prison or to pay for the loss of someone.

Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit, Leonardo Museum, a review - February 2014

Review of our Sunday February 2nd, 2014 visit to the Utah Science and Technology Arts Museum (also known as the Leonard Museum), in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Currently on display is a Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit there, an exhibit which appears to be rotating around to various museums.

The admission price for the special exhibit is very high.

Here's what you'll see in side:

1. Sand on the floor.
2. Old pottery.
3. Old coins.
4. A few very small pieces of the scrolls, which are impossible to read or view in any reasonable way. Blown up images of the few pieces brought.
5. Staff who state that they believe in prayer.
6. A replica of the Jerusalem wailing wall (western temple wall), into which you can place a prayer paper, which will supposedly later be taken to Jerusalem.
7. A special Utah section about the Dead Sea Scrolls that talks about the contribution of Utahns - mainly talking about the involvement of the group FARMS (Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies - now the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship at BYU), and strangely about the DNA work of Scott Woodward. FARMS and it's successor serve as a "scholarly" "scientific" apologetic instrument of the Mormon Church.

Mention of Scott Woodward's DNA work in the Utah section was particularly appalling. Where is the Lamanite DNA? Google plant geneticist Simon Southerton to find out - there is none. FARMS/Maxwell/BYU apologetic pseudoscience has no place in an honest science museum.

References:

DNA Genealogies of American Indians and the Book of Mormon
http://www.exmormon.org/whylft125.htm

Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church
http://www.amazon.com/Losing-Lost-Tribe-Native-Americans/dp/1560851813

Simon Southerton, DNA, Lamanites and the Book of Mormon
http://mormonstories.org/348-349-simon-southerton-dna-lamanites-and-the-book-of-mormon/

Dr. Southerton's blog:
http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com

Science on prayer - as per a study paid for by a group who seeks in my view to otherwise distort science (Templeton Foundation):
Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Study_of_the_Therapeutic_Effects_of_Intercessory_Prayer

FARMS info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Ancient_Research_and_Mormon_Studies

FARMS articles at the Mormon Curtain website:
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_farms.html

Salamander Society article on FARMS:
http://www.salamandersociety.com/apologetics/

Shake-up hits BYU's Mormon studies institute
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/utes/54358137-78/mormon-institute-peterson-studies.html.csp

Review created February 3, 2014 - 7:11am, 7:24am, 11:27am to about noon

The Mormon & Christian Memetic Whirlpool - response to: Gebhardt's story: From Christianity, to atheism, and then back to Christianity again

Our neural networks are highly mailable. We can be swayed into various memetic-social camps due to various influences including: parental, social, educational, experiential, etc. When within one memetic camp we erect walls of defense to keep from being pulled into another camp. If pulled into another camp, we erect new memetic walls to keep us in the new camp.

I remember my time in Portland as being like an Alice in Wonderland. One of my experience paths involved going to weekly meetings for the new sadly defunct group United States Atheists. At those meetings a very nice man befriended me and we would often go to a nearby bar to talk, with a few of the others from the meetings. Also this man later headed up atheist group monthly visits to the OMSI Science Pub events, in connection with atheist related meetup.com groups & later with the Center For Inquiry, Portland.

Another experience path involved appearing a few times on the Sciligion cable access show.

Here's another video of my friend (who would go to the USA Atheists meetings & the bar afterward & to the OMSI Science Pub CFI events), from 2009. In that 2009 video he talks about going from being a Christian to an atheist.

Within the past few days from February 4, 2014 I found that my friend has converted back to evangelical Christianity. Here is a related video, and some additional debate notes I found about the issue.

The Mormon & Christian Memetic Whirlpool

Mormons wear nice clothes. That was the first comment from my wife as I drove her around downtown Salt Lake, especially during their General Conferences. But just wearing nice clothes doesn't mean you are happy.

As I have walked with my wife & son around Temple Square, I know she's felt the pull of the Mormon memetic whirlpool. I've felt it too, but I also get a huge icky poo feeling along with. A cult is a group which engages in a few key things:

1. Leader worship.
2. Excommunication of those who disagree - both from your own family if you disagree, and from the cult in general.
3. Active suppression of evidence that may discredit what the leaders are claiming.
4. Putting the cult first, above family & other human relationships.

A cult is an especially strong form of memetic group or camp with especially strong defenses, and strong belief maintenance to keep people in line.

Our path through the forest of competing ideas can result in our being sucked one way or another, based on how we are feeling & what's happening to us at any given time.

So, I won't be returning to Mormonism or Christianity any time soon. Why? Because I remember the deception, the lies, and the pain. I haven't forgotten the lies of the leaders or their hypocrisy.

My related video commentary on this whole situation:

Commentary included with above video:

------quote begins

This is an initial video response to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxjSAuLAG48
Gebhardt's story: From Christianity, to atheism, and then back to Christianity again

Created February 4, 2014 7:39am

While in Portland I was befriended by a man who went with me to weekly meetings for the now defunct group United States Atheists. After those meetings we often would go to a bar for a chat. Also the man became an organizer for Center for Inquiry, Portland and their past monthly OMSI Science Pub events. Also the man invited me to participate in a cable access TV show called Sciligion.

Here's one example where we're appearing together on the show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCSnEh16anA

and here's another example of where he's talking about converting to being an atheist (before converting back to Christianity):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEe0KfQ1L1w

In the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxjSAuLAG48 my friend talks about a differentiation between the the physical and the metaphysical, the normal and the paranormal. For me such differentiations are simply memetic camp defense mechanisms. If some god exists in another dimension as a "spiritual being," he or she or it would still be a physical entity. Does the so-called metaphysical item or entity exist? If the answer is yes then they are physical AKA a real thing with real physical properties.

It's sad that to belong to a human social group we have to a.) suck up to a leader, and b.) state that we believe in one or more joint-lies. Can we change this situation? Can we have human social groups where we don't all have to state that we believe in the joint lies?

When we leave conservative religion we may encounter what is essentially liberal-religion. Many atheist & "free thought" groups are essentially liberal religions. If you don't tow the party line in these liberal flavors of religion you will then undergo a heresy trial, one which almost exactly mirrors the heresy trials of conservative religions. In those trials you will be accused of having held onto tenets from your old religion, concepts which you should have just completely tossed according to them. But the key fallacies in their arguments can be revealed via the following activity: Going to China, where they know nothing about your religion, and see what they believe in & do. Do the same thing in other cultures. Religion is a NATURAL phenomenon, and so even tenets in conservative religion can still be fully natural.

------quote ends