A high abundance of angel readers and other nutjobs within the gay "lifestyle"

Do psychic whackjobs really believe their own claptrap?

Read carefully the following example: http://goo.gl/ea9C6A

$100 per hour. $50 per half hour. What a bargain. Contact your dead loved ones. Find out all your medical problems. Oh my.

Oh, and what about the fun spelling errors at http://goo.gl/6gqjHk

The fruity flakey nature of the man's mother didn't help with his propensity to be sucked into such claptrap.

Here's one friend of the man in question:
"Predator was coach, Scout chief" http://goo.gl/vmC2J8

How nice.

I now have no contact with the whackjob psychic in question, and upon reflection I'm glad to also have no association moving forward with his friends, such as the abusive ex-con mentioned on the third site listed above.

Not everything is black & white, nice and pleasant, happy & healthy, in the "gay" community... Crass narcissism. Endless petty vain tail chasing. New-Age moonbattery. Easy acceptance of other abusers. These attributes are common in the culture.

Unitarians are the most accepting people? If you're too accepting you might just get AIDS, die, and leave your straight family with no father.

Family Values Atheism: Questioning liberal dogma -- the Gay Flag: Freaks Welcome Here -- questioning gay marriage -- secular reparative therapy (choosing to live straight)
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/family-values-atheism-questioning.html

No, I ain't one, but after first hand exposure via my gay nephew & attendance within him at many gay parties and a few gay bars, I can see why someone would want to "live straight."

Living straight means: A more productive life, one which naturally includes the ready possibility of children. A life that doesn't require frequent contact with new age nutjobs and vain petty narcissists. A life which isn't, by default and without great effort to avoid it, a dead end. Anyway...

response to: Wounded On The Battlefield -- The Mormon War on pleasure, masturbation, normal healthy human sexual expression, and freedom

The Mormon war on men's bits & pieces, and on liberating life changing sexual pleasure, is never ending, and yet they never admit to the crimes of their founding leaders.

Recently BYU Idaho, which is really a glorified de facto private high school formerly known as Ricks College, released a video via their Student Housing Department, called Wounded On The Battlefield. It's an anti-porn anti-masturbation propaganda video. Here it is:

And here is my response:

Joseph Smith & Brigham Young taking 14 or 15 year old girls to wife. Marrying the wives of other men (who were still married to the other men - check the wiki articles linked to here). And then there's the Mormon God, who must have an orgasm every 4.6 minutes to keep up with a total human population level of 107 billion people so far, created in say one million years.

In a cult the leader gets to have all the sex he wants, with whomever he wants. But it's the height of hypocrisy to be concerned about normal natural healthy otherwise-private activities of children & adults while at the same time failing to admit to and own up to the crimes of the founders of your stupid religion / cult.

Additional thoughts:
To the Mormon wife whose husband is 'addicted to porn:' 12 *real* steps that will help!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/07/to-mormon-wife-whos-husband-is-addicted.html

responses to continued mobot (Mormon) fear of sex
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/responses-to-continued-mobot-mormon.html

additional pages on masturbation:
https://www.google.com/#q=site:jonathanshome.blogspot.com+masturbation

a friend's pages on the subject
http://nowscape.com/mormon/mormast.htm
and http://nowscape.com/mormon/mormast2.htm

my own related journal:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/Mortal_Mormonism.htm

Joseph Smith's wives:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives

Brigham Young's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives
news references:
http://www.bustle.com/articles/14576-byu-idahos-wounded-on-the-battlefield-video-equates-masturbation-with-world-war
and
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/03/byu-idaho-anti-masturbation-video-war_n_4719599.html

Sexual experiences may well lead us to conclude that we don't need the Mormon God or the messed up Mormon Church. That's what the Mormon leaders fear.

Philip Seymour Hoffman was a druggie who betrayed his family

Philip Seymour Hoffman was a great arrr-tiest (artist), who in my view was also (and most importantly) a druggie who betrayed his family. The guy had three kids and an ex-partner whom in my view he betrayed - and that's the most important thing we can say about the man.

What would we think of the guy if he were not a "great" actor? Just some man or woman who died of a drug overdose, with perhaps (according to news reports & the police) ~70 bags of heroin in his apartment? We'd rightly conclude they were incredibly petty, stupid, vain, shallow, and unfit to be a parent. A man or woman who betrayed his three kids & family.

This business of separating the artist from his or her supposedly-separate personal life  is wrong headed & immoral, but it's par for the course for liberal dogmatists who hold so very tightly to their relativism.

Roman Polanski, and possibly Woody Allen (as per claims by his ex-wife & some of his kids), are also examples of men who have acted in incredibly slimy ways. Oh, they're such great artists? Who cares, right? No. People shouldn't get a pass on such matters just because they won the Hollywood or Sundance popularity contest.

Perhaps Hollywood should just go trolling for new directors at the local prison and mental institute. Perhaps this is what they've already done.

Drugs can hijack your built in by evolution by natural selection brain reward circuitry. Also just because something is "natural" doesn't mean it's safe. Chemicals are chemicals, and "natural" plants and naturally-derived chemicals can F you up just as much as any man made chemical can. Thus harmful drugs such as marijuana & heroin should remain illegal, but people should not be locked away if they take them. Instead there should be mandatory treatment programs, and mandatory check ins and monitoring.

There are natural highs that are ok, such as sex, good & healthy food, positive social interaction, helping others, etc. But adding dangerous chemicals to your brain which force your reward circuitry into overdrive can permanently damage how the system works.

Perhaps the guy wanted to portray Truman Capote for a reason. Two peas in the pod. But self destructive people need proper intervention, and they should be properly called out when they're betraying their own family.

So you're a great artist, but also a druggie or worse? Who cares about your artistry. Get yourself cleaned up, and then perhaps we'll check out whether you've painted a pretty picture or not.

------------

February 7, 2014 addendum:

Comments posted in response to the following blog:

Phillip Seymour Hoffman did not have choice or free will and neither do you.
http://debbiebayerblog.com/2014/02/04/phillip-seymour-hoffman-did-not-have-choice-or-free-will-and-neither-do-you/
Comment 1:

I can see why Daniel Dennett considers the Harris view on free will insidious. Does the crack mom have a choice? Does the abusive father? Does the abusive Catholic Priest? Yes, absolutely they do have a choice. More choice than an amoeba. More choice than a carrot. More choice than a cat, dog, or lion. More choice than Sam Harris and presumably you will allow for.

Hoffman’s actions were no better than that of a crack mother in my view. He had three kids. He very much WAS responsible for his actions. Irresponsible. Abusive. Retrograde. And so on.
more thoughts:

------------

Someone then replied with mention of Jesus. Here's my reply to them - Comment 2:

1. Do abusers have a choice? Yes. Do they have free will? Yes, in the compatibilist sense that Daniel Dennett talks about & which I very much agree with. The level of choice, and the ability to make what could reasonably be stated to be good choices, varies depending on the individual. Regardless though dangerous people should be locked up. And non-violent druggies should be forced into treatment & mandatory rehab programs by the law (not into prison).

2. Mention of Jesus has little sway with me as I'm not a believer in him. The Biblical Jesus judged plenty of people, as do many of his followers in spite of the admonition to not judge. In fact for the past 2000 years they've done >nothing but< judge others, and in many cases to kill others for their lack of belief in Jesus.

But, we should judge people, reasonably. And we should be judged, in reasonable ways. We are judged by our peers all the time. That's how human society works. We're social animals. And cheaters, rightly, get called out for cheating. And dangerous outliers are locked up - and that's a good thing.

3. Rather than devote time to prayer, may I suggest devoting time to real things that will help. Intervention into the lives of people who're virtually drowning is one good task. More people should have intervened in the life of Phillip Seymour Hoffman. His neighbors. The police. A judge could have ordered him into treatment.

Who failed Hoffman? His sycophantic admirers, his fellow Hollywood druggie friends, and the press. Also the probably underpaid police for not catching him earlier. 70 bags of heroin is a lot. Rich & poor should be treated equally I agree - not prison. Instead all non-dealers should be routed to mandatory treatment & mandatory follow ups. Also mandatory inspections of the living quarters of affected people. It takes some tax money. Jesus isn't enough. Real flesh & blood in person people need to be there to do the work. But it's cheaper in the long run to pay for in person intervention than to pay for prison or to pay for the loss of someone.

Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit, Leonardo Museum, a review - February 2014

Review of our Sunday February 2nd, 2014 visit to the Utah Science and Technology Arts Museum (also known as the Leonard Museum), in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Currently on display is a Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit there, an exhibit which appears to be rotating around to various museums.

The admission price for the special exhibit is very high.

Here's what you'll see in side:

1. Sand on the floor.
2. Old pottery.
3. Old coins.
4. A few very small pieces of the scrolls, which are impossible to read or view in any reasonable way. Blown up images of the few pieces brought.
5. Staff who state that they believe in prayer.
6. A replica of the Jerusalem wailing wall (western temple wall), into which you can place a prayer paper, which will supposedly later be taken to Jerusalem.
7. A special Utah section about the Dead Sea Scrolls that talks about the contribution of Utahns - mainly talking about the involvement of the group FARMS (Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies - now the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship at BYU), and strangely about the DNA work of Scott Woodward. FARMS and it's successor serve as a "scholarly" "scientific" apologetic instrument of the Mormon Church.

Mention of Scott Woodward's DNA work in the Utah section was particularly appalling. Where is the Lamanite DNA? Google plant geneticist Simon Southerton to find out - there is none. FARMS/Maxwell/BYU apologetic pseudoscience has no place in an honest science museum.

References:

DNA Genealogies of American Indians and the Book of Mormon
http://www.exmormon.org/whylft125.htm

Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church
http://www.amazon.com/Losing-Lost-Tribe-Native-Americans/dp/1560851813

Simon Southerton, DNA, Lamanites and the Book of Mormon
http://mormonstories.org/348-349-simon-southerton-dna-lamanites-and-the-book-of-mormon/

Dr. Southerton's blog:
http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com

Science on prayer - as per a study paid for by a group who seeks in my view to otherwise distort science (Templeton Foundation):
Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Study_of_the_Therapeutic_Effects_of_Intercessory_Prayer

FARMS info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Ancient_Research_and_Mormon_Studies

FARMS articles at the Mormon Curtain website:
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_farms.html

Salamander Society article on FARMS:
http://www.salamandersociety.com/apologetics/

Shake-up hits BYU's Mormon studies institute
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/utes/54358137-78/mormon-institute-peterson-studies.html.csp

Review created February 3, 2014 - 7:11am, 7:24am, 11:27am to about noon

The Mormon & Christian Memetic Whirlpool - response to: Gebhardt's story: From Christianity, to atheism, and then back to Christianity again

Our neural networks are highly mailable. We can be swayed into various memetic-social camps due to various influences including: parental, social, educational, experiential, etc. When within one memetic camp we erect walls of defense to keep from being pulled into another camp. If pulled into another camp, we erect new memetic walls to keep us in the new camp.

I remember my time in Portland as being like an Alice in Wonderland. One of my experience paths involved going to weekly meetings for the new sadly defunct group United States Atheists. At those meetings a very nice man befriended me and we would often go to a nearby bar to talk, with a few of the others from the meetings. Also this man later headed up atheist group monthly visits to the OMSI Science Pub events, in connection with atheist related meetup.com groups & later with the Center For Inquiry, Portland.

Another experience path involved appearing a few times on the Sciligion cable access show.

Here's another video of my friend (who would go to the USA Atheists meetings & the bar afterward & to the OMSI Science Pub CFI events), from 2009. In that 2009 video he talks about going from being a Christian to an atheist.

Within the past few days from February 4, 2014 I found that my friend has converted back to evangelical Christianity. Here is a related video, and some additional debate notes I found about the issue.

The Mormon & Christian Memetic Whirlpool

Mormons wear nice clothes. That was the first comment from my wife as I drove her around downtown Salt Lake, especially during their General Conferences. But just wearing nice clothes doesn't mean you are happy.

As I have walked with my wife & son around Temple Square, I know she's felt the pull of the Mormon memetic whirlpool. I've felt it too, but I also get a huge icky poo feeling along with. A cult is a group which engages in a few key things:

1. Leader worship.
2. Excommunication of those who disagree - both from your own family if you disagree, and from the cult in general.
3. Active suppression of evidence that may discredit what the leaders are claiming.
4. Putting the cult first, above family & other human relationships.

A cult is an especially strong form of memetic group or camp with especially strong defenses, and strong belief maintenance to keep people in line.

Our path through the forest of competing ideas can result in our being sucked one way or another, based on how we are feeling & what's happening to us at any given time.

So, I won't be returning to Mormonism or Christianity any time soon. Why? Because I remember the deception, the lies, and the pain. I haven't forgotten the lies of the leaders or their hypocrisy.

My related video commentary on this whole situation:

Commentary included with above video:

------quote begins

This is an initial video response to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxjSAuLAG48
Gebhardt's story: From Christianity, to atheism, and then back to Christianity again

Created February 4, 2014 7:39am

While in Portland I was befriended by a man who went with me to weekly meetings for the now defunct group United States Atheists. After those meetings we often would go to a bar for a chat. Also the man became an organizer for Center for Inquiry, Portland and their past monthly OMSI Science Pub events. Also the man invited me to participate in a cable access TV show called Sciligion.

Here's one example where we're appearing together on the show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCSnEh16anA

and here's another example of where he's talking about converting to being an atheist (before converting back to Christianity):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEe0KfQ1L1w

In the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxjSAuLAG48 my friend talks about a differentiation between the the physical and the metaphysical, the normal and the paranormal. For me such differentiations are simply memetic camp defense mechanisms. If some god exists in another dimension as a "spiritual being," he or she or it would still be a physical entity. Does the so-called metaphysical item or entity exist? If the answer is yes then they are physical AKA a real thing with real physical properties.

It's sad that to belong to a human social group we have to a.) suck up to a leader, and b.) state that we believe in one or more joint-lies. Can we change this situation? Can we have human social groups where we don't all have to state that we believe in the joint lies?

When we leave conservative religion we may encounter what is essentially liberal-religion. Many atheist & "free thought" groups are essentially liberal religions. If you don't tow the party line in these liberal flavors of religion you will then undergo a heresy trial, one which almost exactly mirrors the heresy trials of conservative religions. In those trials you will be accused of having held onto tenets from your old religion, concepts which you should have just completely tossed according to them. But the key fallacies in their arguments can be revealed via the following activity: Going to China, where they know nothing about your religion, and see what they believe in & do. Do the same thing in other cultures. Religion is a NATURAL phenomenon, and so even tenets in conservative religion can still be fully natural.

------quote ends

thoughts on gay adoption - 1-16-2014

response to "The sciphi of gay adoption,"
at http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-sciphi-of-gay-adoption.html

It's too simplistic to state that because human brains have come up with medical advances, that therefore a child does not need, and would best benefit by having, a father and mother - normally, ideally, usually.

From an experiential perspective I've seen a lot of gay culture. For several years I went to gay parties & gay bars with a nephew of mine. However we recently had a falling out & no longer speak. I feel I’ve finally seen the light about his position & my need to stay away from it.

My gay nephew spends his life chasing his own tail, going to petty alcohol centered parties & bars, and in vain & petty pursuits that lead nowhere. When a convicted child abuser (12 year olds – sex related) was released from prison, my gay nephew & his friends readily accepted the man back into their social circle. And like I say he appears to be living a life that will in the end count for pretty much nothing.

Also I have in my experiential profile a gay uncle who died of AIDS because he cheated on his wife during the ‘60s, therefore leaving his family with no father or grandfather. Also he apparently influenced one of his daughters such that her brain was modeled in such a way as to allow herself the internal latitude to consider herself to be gay.

Ok, so there's that. But, I also have been an observer of some gay people who are not quite so petty,  shallow, and destructive. For example there's a very nice man who helps us out when we go on vacation. He spends his life helping others, both professionally and personally.

Here is a list of my current views, after making all these observations, and taking into account exposure to cultures outside of the United States which are largely secular, but which also have concerns about homosexuality:

1. People who are accepting of convicted child abusers are themselves suspect. There may be a dangerous trend or propensity within some parts of “gay culture” to be accepting of child abusers.

2. Having children is a good thing. People who "choose" to not have them are making a huge mistake, in their own lives, and for humanity as a whole. Also people who don't have kids due to environmental concerns are also highly misguided & deceived.

3. Maybe human children really do need a father & a mother, normally, and ideally. Children can adapt, but I'm talking about what is "preferred" and "ideal."

4. What if science of any reasonable flavor disproves progressive or liberal dogma or presuppositions?

5. Religion is a natural phenomenon. This fact cuts both ways. What can be "instilled" by a religion, can nevertheless be fully natural with fully naturalistic roots. Concerns over masturbation & pornography. Concerns over non-procreative sex. Concerns about preserving life. It's simply too easy and lazy to state that all such concerns can be dismissed out of hand because leaders in a given religion express concerns. For me, as an ex-Mormon, it's a matter of balance.

Should children be shamed for masturbation? Should adults be prevented from viewing porn? No to both. But on the other hand, both pursuits can be detrimental if they prevent someone from having real meaningful interactions with another flesh & blood human being.

Should life be valued? Yes. In my view abortion should be discouraged, but not illegal before viability.

And so on.

It's very hard work for an ex-religionist to find what really is of value, from a human perspective, amongst all the chaff & lies in their former religion. With religions like Mormonism this is a particularly hard task because of the incredibly strict & controlling nature of Mormonism. When one leaves such a religion one can naturally feel the need to let it all hang out & to rebel as much as possible. On the other hand, if you let it all hang out for too long, you may either a.) cheat on your wife, get AIDS, die, and leave your family with no father, or b.) spend your life as a morbidly obese virgin who's obsessed with porn & masturbation - to the exclusion of normal & healthy flesh & blood human relations.

Do humans have a right to marry if they're gay? Perhaps. But regardless enough people now feel as if their "moral zeitgeist" has moved along such that they now feel self-professed gay people should be able to marry legally. Most any opinion can be justified by case law, left or right or otherwise.

Should gay couples adopt children? Maybe. I suppose if abusive straight ones can adopt & take in foster kids, then more reasonable & kind gay couples probably should be able to. But it's still an open question for me as to whether having a lack of gender balance with parents has a negative or detrimental effect on children. It may, at the very least, allow the brains of children to be drawn more readily into them considering themselves to be “gay,” when they may accurately be more “bi” or a mix, or both, or able to go either way – reasonably. Being "gay accepting" can allow for the brains of children to consider "gayness" as more of an option. There are gradations.

People can choose to become "ex-gay" or to live the life of a straight person - and be happy.

Saying all these things is heresy to the Stonewall liberal. Non sequitur assumptions, accusations, ad hominem attacks, black listing, and heresy trials – leftist style, can quickly and easily begin when a person says much of any of the above. But, in my view we need to nevertheless question liberal dogma points as well as conservative ones.

The person who angrily tells either side to just "shut up" goes too far & needs to be militantly ignored. Both the conservative preacher and the politically correct liberal need to be ignored & pushed past in my view.

Anyway, I appreciate hearing what you have to say in most cases. I’m simply trying to convey that it’s too simplistic to state that conservative views can be dismissed out of hand because people who’re currently religious happen to make such claims. Dennett’s truth about the natural state of religion does cut both ways, and should give pause to the liberal as he may be working to fervently adhere to his own dogma points.

What comes out of the mouths of humans is always natural. I think we can be more kind & compassionate though, and expand our in group morality. But we also need to be careful. Warnings from religion can have value & can be fully natural & reasonable. It's hard work to separate the lie-infused covering from the nevertheless-naturalistic-truths which may be inside and which need to be considered even if they were inside of the Mormon or Catholic burrito. My apologies to Mexican food. I prefer human free thinker atheist Chinese burritos myself. Much more tasty.

=========================

1-16-2014 afternoon addendum containing a discussion exchange:

Another person wrote:

>I do think it's a good idea to be very skeptical of ideas promoted by religion. <

My reply:

Skeptical, but not dismissive just because the ideas happen to be harbored within a religion. Does Thor exist? No. But natural human morals & ethics existed within the religion which loved him.

It's hard work for a liberal to be skeptical of liberalism. Pinker / Harris / Dennett / Dawkins have been skeptical of certain aspects of "liberal" as well as "conservative" thought.

>It can be very hard to know which of your values have been instilled by your upbringing and which have rational justification. <

Taking a step further back, away from Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, helps one to see the forest through the trees. If all the cultures I had examined thus far were Mormonism followed by ex-Mormonism, more of my views would probably lie firmly within the liberal camp.

<clip>

>In particular on masturbation and pornography<

<clip>

I'm a masturbation advocate, as well as a marriage, life, and children advocate. I'm also appreciative of the fact that certain forms of porn can be useful, to adults, and in moderation. But what I'm trying to say is there's value in making note of why people say the things they do. When people express concerns over non-procreative forms of sexuality, why do they do that? Because their mommy said so? Because the Bible says no? What I'm saying is that the answer seems to be, n-o - no it's not that simple.

The lies expressed by religion, especially by religions like Mormonism, have tainted the well of conversation. Their lies & controlling nature have made it more difficult to sift & see if, and what, they may be saying may actually be of value. How can we free ourselves of this problem? Go visit China. That's one way. Perhaps 99% of Chinese people have 0% exposure to Mormonism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. And yet, for some reason, they do express concerns about destructive or non-procreative forms of human sexuality. Why is that? Maybe because they're human, and such concerns have naturalistic roots.

It's rather highly inconvenient to be a liberal and to find out that some of your own suppositions & opinions as a liberal may in fact be wrong, unfounded, or damaging.

<clip>

>... it really does seem to me that you are left with a lot of overly-conservative values that need to be re-examined... <

After leaving Mormonism I did a fair amount of exploring. Time & experience has allowed me to take a step back from the letting it all hang out "phase" of my departure from Mormonism. I ain't goin' back. I also am not going to kiss the rear end of Jesus in the future.

I don't advocate the type of concern level expressed by people in Uganda for example. That goes way way too far. Mormon Prophet Spencer Kimball's book Miracle of Forgiveness also goes way way too far in the level of concern expressed. But, on the other hand, I've also seen what happens when people let it all hang out in their rebellion.

The death of my uncle who died of AIDS is one example. He was perhaps a victim of the strictness of Mormonism. Perhaps he would not have rebelled quite so much if either a.) the Mormon Church were itself less strict on sexuality, or b.) his wife had met him part way in his exit by leaving Mormonism herself & being more open sexually with him. It's a valuable thought experiment to consider - post mortem iudicium of rebelling too much and getting AIDS & dying as a result.

> Your overly negative stereotype of masturbation, <

There's no need to personalize too much on that point. I'm advocating looking at what non-Abrahamic cultures do & think. Masturbation can lead one to very much want a real relationship - that's also true. It can enhance a real relationship. But there's destructive forms of the activity which can also lead one away from a real relationship. Do you have enough "sexual energy" left for the date you're about to go on, or are you pooped out? That's one small example. But again I'm advocating taking a step back from American / Christian / Islamic / Jewish myopia on this & all issues. What do non-Abrahamic cultures do & advocate in countries which have had little exposure to the religions of our youths?

>I mean, why should it be?<

Are humans more happy when they are led or lead themselves into a relationship which is inherently non-reproductive?

Is being straight "better" than being gay? Exclude the outliers (psychopaths, etc.), what if the answer is yes?

Is the "childfree" life better? No. 

Would it be better if humans had never existed? No.

But liberals tend to answers these questions differently.

Rejection of the nihilism present in Evangelical Christianity is a happy activity of some atheists. But how about a rejection of the nihilism & defeatism of the left? Who's advocating for that?

Only the "Black Atheists of Atlanta?" I'm not a member of their group, and some of the stuff they advocate for is quite nutty. But, listening to them at the very least provides an opportunity for your average ultra-liberal rebelling atheist to take a step back and question liberal presuppositions as well. And perhaps more importantly, listening to my own wife who had zero exposure to all the (admited & acknowledged) crap I was exposed to as a kid, has helped me take a step back as well.

What I'm advocating for is that the questions of whether elements of conservative thought are actually valid should be *on the table* so to speak, and not swept under the carpet out of fear of offending the new self-appointed leaders of dogmatic liberal de-facto religion. One way of sweeping them under is to try & dismiss them out of hand "because a religion advocated for a given point." It's not that easy or simple is what I'm saying.

Exmormon Foundation 2013 conference: anti-human, anti-children, and anti-life!

Regarding the Exmormon Foundation 2013 conference:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130730052521/http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/conference2013.html

"...Due to the nature of the conference presentations and the serving of alcohol during the evenings, we have established a strict policy that no children are allowed except for nursing infants. In addition, since the presentations are recorded for our website, it's important that we control the ambient noise during the recordings. If you have any questions about this policy, please contact the Conference Chairman..."

Your strict "no children" AKA no-normal-human policy is still present. As such we won't be going.

Suggest your foundation be led by people who realize that people who grow up in a children-friendly environment (eg: sacrament meetings where children are welcome) may expect to have a similar environment in their so-called "recovery-from-Mormonism."

I think we need recovery from recovery from Mormonism, if "recovery" means giving up our kids or leaving them behind.

The Salt Lake conference should be Salt-Lake-people-originated, and operated by people who remember what many years of life were like as a Mormon: Children were there, and that was actually a good thing. We didn't kick them out or send them away like Unitarians do, and we aren't going to do so as so-called "exmos" - not even if there's a "strict" policy requiring this.

Hey, I remember when Tal Bachman brought his several kids to the conference. No problem right?

Anyway, in my view the current leaders of the Exmormon Foundation have constructed a group which is essentially a cult of personality.

Utah is a kid friendly place, even for people recovering from recovery from Mormonism. We aren't from Portland, and we didn't grow up going to UU churches. Sending kids away is not natural for us, and neither is a "strict no child policy." Such a policy is anti-human and anti-life.

Jonathan
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/one/jonathan.html
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/

related post:
Atheist Family Values: Attention Exmormon Foundation: humans have children. And more on presuppositional apolegetics.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/07/atheist-family-values-attention.html

Chinese Garden in Salt Lake City /// Teabagger chumps of Koch brothers - government shutdown

Commentary on two topics:

Topic 1: Rich traitorous bastard teabagger engineered government shutdown conspiracy revealed.

Topic 2: The Chinese garden in International Peace Gardens, Jordan Park, Salt Lake City is being hijacked by anti-China Taiwanese expats.

Video:


Links and more references:

On topic 1: The government shutdown, and the traitoris Koch brothers & their tea bagging chump de facto followers...

A Federal Budget Crisis Months in the Planning
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Shutdown coverage fails Americans
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/10/1/reporting-governmentshutdowndemocracy.html

The 5 creepiest things about how the Koch brothers engineered the shutdown
http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/207311/the-5-creepiest-things-about-how-the-koch-brothers-engineered-the-shutdown/

Conservative Plot To Defund Obamacare Exposed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQmGqCOwy2U

On topic 2:

United Nations resolution 2758 - why Taiwan is not a member of the U.N.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_2758

Legal status of Taiwan - in dispute:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_Taiwan#Arguments_for_United_States_sovereignty_claims

Can you find Taiwan on a map? When someone says the word China, does Taiwan come to mind? Probably not! See the letter I sent to Salt Lake City on this issue, and my linked to video at the top of this post for more details...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
To the Salt Lake City Parks Dept.
Date: Mon, Sep 30, 2013
Subject: no Chinese flag in Peace Garden

Hello,

I've noticed there is no flag for the People's Republic of China in the International Peace Garden in Jordan Park.

Is the purpose of the garden to "foster world peace?" Some people may well want the government of Taiwan to be the "official" government of the Chinese mainland. But no matter how much we may want that & wish for that, it's unlikely to happen. And using the peace garden here as a means of
"sticking it in the eye" of the current, actual, and real government of China, is rather inappropriate.

Does the U.S. need to "make peace" with Taiwan? Hardly.

You're brave enough to have a flag for Vietnam in there. Perhaps there's a plot for Russia. But you can't handle having a flag for the People's Republic of China?

When diplomats from China visit Utah, do they ever drop by the Peace Gardens? Are they confronted with the Taiwanese flag there? But when they go searching for the flag from their country, can they find it? No.

Anyway, I know the people in Taiwan are really quite angry with the government in Beijing. But it seems to me that using the Peace Garden as a platform for their anger doesn't really "foster peace."

And so, your garden, our "peace" garden (since it is a public place) is not really and truly a garden for peace.

Maybe fly BOTH flags in the Chinese garden - both for Taiwan and for regular China. Maybe if you did that the Chinese garden there would be for ALL of China, and not just for an angry subset who want to overthrow the gov in Beijing.

A private group has essentially hijacked the garden. Yes they made it look nice, and I know it was just redone. That's nice. But Taiwan is NOT the government of China, and hand wringing by right-wing McCarthyite politicians in Utah, or even by Taiwanese expats, isn't going to change that.

So, for your/our Chinese garden I ask that you have a flag for China, the People's Republic of China, there.

We can be for freedom for Taiwan without discounting the fact that the People's Republic even exists in the first place. China, the People's Republic thereof, is here to stay. And your garden shouldn't deny that fact, or serve as a means of "sticking it" to the government in Beijing. However noble that cause may be, it's an inappropriate antithetical action by a supposed "peace garden."

My wife is from mainland China, and we were married in the Chinese garden. My wife is not from Taiwan. Maybe you can have a Taiwan garden in the Garden, but as far as we're concerned we were married in the CHINESE garden, not in an exclusively-Taiwanese-centered one. My wife found the presence of the Taiwanese flag and the absence of the Chinese one strange, and an indication that "Americans don't like China."

I agree that the current situation is divisive. Do we have a "peace garden" here or what? Does the City of Salt Lake want America to have peace with REAL CURRENT ACTUAL China, or not? Are you being ALL INCLUSIVE of everyone from China by solely flying the Taiwanese flag? I don't think so.

Perhaps your actions in this case are even, dare I say, racist. My wife is essentially being discriminated against by the actions of your garden organizers. She's not from Taiwan, and you do claim to have a Chinese garden, right? So where's the flag for China in the Chinese garden?

Sincerely,

Jonathan

-------------------end of quote

Further request for help:

In the Peace Garden in Salt Lake (Jordan Park) there's no flag flying for the People's Republic of China. In the "Chinese garden" there's a Taiwanese flag, but the last time I checked Taiwan is not China. Would you like to help organize having a garden in our Peace Garden which either a.) represents all of China and has NO flag flying, or b.) represents the People's Republic of China, with PRC flag flying?

Can a PRC expat have pride in the country they grew up in? Sure! Why not? Taiwan is not China, nor will it ever be China, not even if the PRC becomes more democratic and open and so on. The PRC is here to stay, regardless of whether it becomes more open and free in the future or not. And Hong Kong is a good roadmap perhaps. Hong Kong is part of the PRC also, not Taiwan.

It's too bad that our so-called peace garden is being used as a political football. In our public garden there's a flag for Vietnam, Russia, and so on. Why not for the PRC? Let me know if you want to help...

comments on Deseret News crusade against porn

I can understand what lies at the root of hysterical crusades against porn.

Is "porn addiction" ruining your marriage? Stop taking a highly fear based approach. Stop requiring your kids confess about masturbation. Tell your husband he doesn't have to 100% "give up" porn. Instead tell him "I love you and want to help you be happy."

Watching vids on occasion is one thing. Spending many hours at it, or engaging in real time chats are problematic. Yet: 100% intolerance also goes too far.

Certain types of "porn" can be useful in marriage, in that it can be educational, or create a "spark" to help get things going. If a guy is spending too much time with porn maybe he's upset with how controlling, distant, or threatening you are.

Sex is natural. The "natural man" is a friend to "god," *not* an enemy. The only "god" worth worshiping is sex. Through sex comes love, and life, and the only immortality we will ever experience.

Recently I found "Warren Farrell Speaks in Toronto: Transforming the Boys Crisis" and at time index 1:33:00 he speaks about porn.

Let's examine what human history & human nature show, and move forward in love.

My view on Silverman: He's no Hitchens, or Dawkins, or Harris, or Dennett in a debate

My views on David Silverman: He's no Hitchens, or Dawkins, or Harris, or Dennett in a debate. He comes across as a bit of a noob at times, and his group can be rather pedantic, controlling (censoring atheists who aren't their leadership), and assuming to much - that they represent "atheists" generally - the universal umbrella group as much as they can make themselves, while at the same time being top-down and top-heavy. As for Barker and FFRF: He's a bit more reasonable.

As a non-Jew I've always viewed the Star of David as a religious symbol. I would agree that the monument should feature symbols that represent all of the affected groups, if it's going to have symbols at all.

Separately, someone should make a monument to all the boys whose penises were raped as a result of Jewish culture. Certainly circ is no justification for what Hitler did. But no culture is perfect or particularly more noble.

Why, why, why we have to fight against all cults of personality...

Hey Mormon Missionaries: Where is the Lamanite DNA? Holding onto our values after leaving religion.

Comments about video:

Mr. Beeb is becoming more smart every day. We may go to the Utah State Fair again this weekend. They have some interesting art & paintings.

Yesterday during my lunch walk I got approached by bike by a couple of Mormon missionaries. They started with Moroni 10:3-5 that if you just pray & get a feeling that Mormonism is true that you will become convinced. They asked me how come people in the middle of Africa can get sucked into Mormonism. I told them that this happens because of a failing with how the human brain works. Next they told me that only when science & religion work together can both move forward. I told them there's been no Lamanite DNA found. They said that there's been Jewish DNA found in American Indians. However this is from a LATER migration - AFTER Columbus. Scientists can tell when a given genetic influence happened by genetic drift. Google T.G. Schurr, and also "Where is the Lamanite DNA," and also Simon Southerton for more info on all this. They ended with "you just have to have faith." I responded with: I think we need to rely on human nature, and try to value the good parts of human nature while curtailing the bad.

I can help you leave the Mormon Church, while holding onto your values.

Cultures which have had ZERO to do with your current or former religion have plenty of values! THAT'S the key thing both the ultra-rightie and the ultra-leftie should learn.

IMG 2762 9-13-2013 7:30am

Agent Orange, Syria, and Vietnam - yes they are linked

I didn't have anything to do with Kennedy, LBJ, or Nixon's war in Vietnam. Sesame Street & Mr. Rogers were the main things happening in my life then.

Amazingly the damage from that "old" war is still happening:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23632245

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/10/world/asia/us-moves-to-address-agent-orange-contamination-in-vietnam.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/22/3514489/4-decades-after-war-ended-agent.html

http://www.civilbeat.com/voices/2013/09/06/19831-remember-agent-orange-the-us-own-chemical-weapons-history/

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100235050/spare-us-the-hypocrisy-over-chemical-weapons-america-what-about-agent-orange/

WTF indeed.

Anyway it's not exactly hypocritical for new leaders who had zero to do with past sins to try & stop other world leaders from using chemical weapons. But it's more than a little bit hypocritical to not offer direct help & compensation to CURRENT victims of agent orange in Vietnam - while at the same time denying that agent orange was a chemical weapon as such (intended to hurt people - what bullshit).

Anyway, as for Syria, I'm still in the "wait" camp. It's not evil to fight against evil, as long as you're willing to fight for it at home and abroad. Will Obama & John Kerry be fighting for recognition of agent orange as a chemical weapon that did hurt people, and that is continuing to hurt people? Will they be fighting to jail all those who purported this act (the use of agent orange) during America's not so cold war?

-------------

Copy of letter shared with national leaders:

Regarding Syria, as soon as we've admitted that agent orange use in Vietnam was illegal by both U.S. and international standards, and as soon as we start compensating past & current victims of agent orange in Vietnam & elsewhere, only then should we consider action against Syria.

The people who authorized agent orange use in Vietnam should be in jail, in my view. Children in Vietnam are continuing to be deformed.

So, we've got our own chemical weapon use history. Let's own up to what we've done as a country before we strike out at another for supposedly similar sins.

Syria is a messy business right now. We don't have to be the "air force for al qaeda," and it's unclear whether the government there used the weapons. But even if they did, we should own up to our own past mistakes fully & completely before striking out at another country for similar sins.

Star Trek; Sneaky Biology; Built in human morality; Fun includes work; Can I join your church?

Commentary on Star Trek Enterprise.

On the new Star Trek movie franchise: Not Star Trek - should instead be called "Kiddie Trek" or "Millennials Trek."

The original Star Trek is rather like Shakespeare. Should we change the stories of Shakespeare? No. Changing the basic story lines of the original story lines is not what they do with Shakespeare & it's not what people should do with Star Trek.

Roddenberry wrote cowboy stories. We need cowboys in space. If we use robots forever, what happens when the sun gets 10% hotter & the sun boils off? The childless liberal hippie may well be extinct, but the "breeders" won't be. Childless liberals get what they want: no place on the great mandala.

Biology can sneak up on everyone, left & right. Thank goodness.

See what birth control does now: We have people who think that the child-free life is just as good as one with children. Catholics have a point. It's not what's in the Bible - it's basic human morality, nature, instincts, and survival.

In Mormonism & other religions they teach you to be afraid of sexual thoughts.

If you're a Mormon wife, maybe you shouldn't wear your temple garments at night, or even during the day. Wearing them interferes with your ability to be intimate with your husband. No wonder he's looking at porn so much even though he's married to you.

Religion can fuck you up, but religion is a natural phenomenon. So we have to separate the lies from the truth. That's why I like Bart Ehrman. He helps separate the lies from the truth.

You have can you religion & your values. You can be pro-life, and wary of birth control. You can be wary of the homosexual agenda. Why? Because you can tie into natural normal human morality & human nature. You can use your brain to evaluate the outcomes of various activities & thought processes.

You don't have to believe in the lies of your religion to hold onto your values. True humanist values! True naturalist values! Being natural includes having stigmas for destructive behaviors - that's the key epiphany that I've had.

We don't have to lie to say the truth.

Can I join your church? If I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus, but I think there's some valid & good human values in the Bible & in other books that humans have written?

Humans write human stuff. Some of the groups that have Bart Ehrman debating, I think they actually believe the guy. They can't move along the road because they're afraid that without their god everything is permitted. They look at the ultra-leftie liberals & thin this. But, you can codify your values without having to believe in lies. Examine things objectively and make judgements. Judging can be highly valuable.

Remember the Great Mandala song by Peter, Paul, and Mary. "...Win or lose now you must choose now..."

Fun includes work, hippie, and not just staring at your own naval all your life.

September 4, 2013 7:37am

Miley Cyrus and Breastfeeding: Don't censor either!

Part of an image shared on facebook in response to the Miley Cyrus incident:

The original facebook poster added words on the bottom of the image stating how they were outraged that the picture on the right was reportedly sometimes censored on facebook, and yet the image on the left was widely shared with no problem.

Well, facebook is no panacea. Here's my response though to both photos being combined and posted together:

Hey liberal: The first picture leads to the second picture - and it should!

Hey conservative: Don't be afraid of either picture!

I only barely knew about the VMA's before hearing about the incident on the BBC.

The apparent wildness of sex leads to the beauty of a child. Whodathunkit. It's not one or the other - it's both intertwined.

We apparently need sex ed for both sides of the social & political spectrum...

Hey liberals: have kids - it's a good thing!

Hey conservatives: Sex is fun, and it should be. Sex can free you from your made up gods. And: don't be too hung about about masturbation or oral sex. And if you're a Mormon woman, stop wearing your garnments during sex.

Ok...

Miley Cyrus, You go girl!

In the wake of the reaction to Miley Cyrus's recent performance at the VMA's, here's my response:

You go girl!

Performance: http://goo.gl/l2jjVy

Reaction:
https://www.google.com/search?q=miley+cyrus+reaction

Mika Brzezinski's idiotic, myopic, and petty response:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7cDq8ajWYA

The Young Turks more reasonable response:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy4y0C4GmYU

Miley Cyrus is sexual -- get over it
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/26/opinion/schwartz-miley-cyrus/

Racist? Hardly. Ultra-lefties are some of the most racist people you'll ever meet.

Miley Cyrus & Robin Thicke: white women & men can jump after all. We're not all like Napoleon Dynamite.

Is Hannah Montana dead? Hardly. When a girl grows up into a woman & discovers what her coochie can do, she can put behind her the black & white saccharin false niceties of the past. The world of Disney is false, fake, saccharin, a lie, and a deception. Fun for a while, but still false & fake.

No wonder the girl did what she did, growing up and working as a Disney kid. And good on her! Remember the film Pleasantville, when people turned from being black & white into color? That's what happens when a human comes of age. Realizing the power, majesty, and wonder of what you've got right between your legs - that's the key question of your & all our lives. What will you do with that power?

So, in the short term, Miley can & should shake her booty and her coochie around all she wants. In the long term, I hope that she settles down & has kids. I hope that she doesn't get sucked into the selfish dead end childless culture on the left.

No, she isn't a tramp or a slut or a whore. She's yet another female human who's come of age, and discovered the world isn't what Disney claimed at all, nor should it be.

Don't kiss the ass of some made up god or preacher! You've got all the power you need in YOU to move forward - right between your legs. What you do with that power in the long term is the key question...

Further thoughts:
Families Can Be Together Forever... Through Evolution!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/families-can-be-together-forever.html

Atheism & having kids: the right to choose to be a zero
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2011/11/atheism-having-kids-right-to-choose-to.html

8-30-2013 7:41am

Church History museum; Chinese family values; atheist & humanist groups are religions too.

Commentary on our visit to the LDS Church History Museum and to Temple Square. We saw the new Boy Scout exhibit at the museum, the golden plates, the angel Macaroni (I mean Moroni), and so on.

Built in human morality fully exists within religions, and also in less religious societies like China. How can we separate the useful facts of human morality in religion from the lies? It's hard work.

Mormonism is a modern cult - a cult in a suit and a tie. But new atheist and humanist groups are religions also - where you have lies you cannot question, and where you have to be politically correct for fear of not being a "genuine" atheist or humanist.

Religions do have some good ideas, but you wouldn't realize that unless you: a.) spent several years checking out all the hippie crap, and b.) going to gay bars & parties with your gay nephew, and c.) making note of how a convicted pedophile was gladly accepted back into your nephew's friend group after leaving prison, and d.) going to Portland and seeing what people do there via an Alice in Wonderland style journey, and e.) marrying a woman from China - where they never heard of Joseph Smith and very little of Jesus. Also making note of how your gay uncle died of AIDS leaving his regular normal family with no father will help expand your perspective. So, in spite of their bullshit, the Mormon & Catholic churches do have some very good ideas and ideals.

Why do religions have to support themselves with lies? Even the atheistic versions of religions have lies? Lies about the negative impacts of the ultra-left agenda.

The crazy ideas are mixed in with some good and useful truths. It's all integrated together. So, how can we separate out useful fact from harmful fiction? Perhaps one key way is this: refusing to be politically correct!

Maybe China is showing us the way: family values! They don't believe in Jesus or Joseph Smith, and yet they have a great deal of good valuable down home family values. They aren't perfect either, but they do value family.

But: Shhh! In atheist & humanist groups have to be very quiet about what you really think - and so such groups are religion also. So watch out!

Reject political correctness and embrace family values.

8-27-2013 7:32am

hiking to Fehr Lake & other explorations - July 6, 2013

Beeb crawling; exploring along the Mirror Lake Highway - Provo River Falls; Fehr Lake trail; Coco is with us (male Timneh African Grey parrot).

July 6, 2013
Times of clips included in the film:
8 857 857 1023 1029 1033 1103 1138 1144 1149 1233 1325 1335 1335 1342 1342

Yelena Isinbayeva - You Go Girl! -- Questioning Hippie Dogma.

On the film "Plan 10 From Outer Space."

Thoughts on Yelena Isinbayeva: you go girl! Thanks!

News reference: "Russian pole vault champ Yelena Isinbayeva condemns homosexuality, supports new anti-gay law"
http://goo.gl/0dQPXO

Related comments about Yelena's actions:

Courageous. Wonderful. Thanks Yelena and Russia. The same could be said of China perhaps - a similar cultural & very *human* understanding of the situation.

Children are, after all, the future, and a couple who can naturally have them together is of most value...

Calls for "shame on Yelena" you'll notice, are coming from the de-facto religion of the cultural left in the West. They have their own dogmatic religion, heresy trials, witch hunts, elders, and core unquestionable dogmas. But theirs is a religion (culture - meme set) which doesn't value life. Instead they dogmatically value relativism. But not everything is equal.

Thanks Russia. Thanks China. And thanks to many black people in America who also have the courageous view that we should be valuing life by honoring where it comes from, honoring how we all got here in the first place, and valuing the fact that children are our only path to real flesh & blood immortality.

---end of quote

Nationally led atheist (humanist, naturalist, Unitarian Universalist) groups tend to be centered around the political and social ideology of their leadership.

Questioning the dominant paradigm - isn't that what rock music was supposed to be about?

Can we question the new dominant paradigm in the west: Hippie Dogma.

Here are some hippie dogmas worth questioning:

Hippie dogma number 1: Whatever you do is up to you - it doesn't hurt anyone else.

Hippie dogma number 2: All cultures are equal. You cannot question another person's culture.

Hippie dogma number 3: The "native" people are very noble indeed.

When you grow up, you can realize that all the hippie dogma is a bunch of bullshit - 80% of it. 20% is ok.

Compassion for your fellow man is ok, & trying to keep people from having to go to church just so they can get a meal - yes that's ok too.

I like art museums, pretty rocks, and incense. But poor & religious people should be able to have as many kids as they damn well please. Don't let hippie dogma make YOU a zero or a near zero on the great mandala!

8-20-13 731am

More info:

advocacy for having children:
http://goo.gl/BVCy4u
and
http://goo.gl/rCtjTm

American Indians: No group of humans are uniquely more noble
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/03/american-indians-no-group-of-humans-are.html

Thoughts on hyphenated Americans, racism, and cynicism
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/08/thoughts-on-hyphenated-americans-racism.html

Islamofactia, Islamotruthia, Homofactia, Homotruthia - and the Black Atheists of Atlanta

The page:
"Nothing Atheist About “Real” Black Atheists"
http://spiceislandatheist.blogspot.com/2013/04/nothing-atheist-about-real-black.html

My response:

I can see why black atheists in Atlanta are inclined to be nationalistic. I don't agree with them that every aspect of European culture is inherently evil. However listening to their views helped me take a step back & realize that many atheist & humanist groups in America are dogmatically, politically, and socially ultra-left - and de facto religions themselves as a result. If you find yourself to be an atheist who's not socially ultra-left, you will be kicked out of such groups. So, the new atheist groups are now in my view religions in and of themselves.

Given enough education about Islam, and one may advocate for Islamofactia and Islamotruthia, rather than being guilty of "Islamophobia." The same can go for homosexuality. "Homophobia?" In my view it's more like homofactia and homotruthia - when given enough knowledge.

Political correctness & towing the party line IS a part of the atheist "movement," and thus we don't have rationalism or skepticism, - instead we've got just another religion.

Can you question your dogma? The atheist may well want to accept all of the "yes you can do that" precepts in all cultures, but they're rather loath & unfortunately wary to realize that sometimes there's also value in having stigmas associated with destructive human behaviors.

It's taken me a LONG time to realize this, after taking an Alice in Wonderland style journey through some "let it all hang out" type activities, and having a gay uncle who died of AIDS leaving his regular family with no father, and a gay nephew who spends his life in petty dead end pursuits (eg: posting near naked pictures of himself on facebook & near constant talk of sex with "boys," plus he & his friend's acceptance of a convicted pedophile back into the gay community after he was was released from prison).

So, given enough knowledge, even a liberal can wise up and realize that not everything is equal... Black Atheists of Atlanta helped me realize this, along with my wife who comes from another country - where they never heard of Mormonism and very very little of Christianity.

Daniel Dennett showed us that religion is a natural phenomenon - a realization that can cut both ways.

So, human nature & human morality can be expressed in religion. But just because a given religion says something is bad - that doesn't automatically mean they are wrong. They can merely be expressing a key part of human morality & human nature.

don't throw out the baby with the bathwater: hard work for an ex-religionist

The guy is right:

"...So who is to blame? The breakdown of families, the pernicious promotion of single motherhood as a desirable state, the decline of domestic life so that even shared meals are a rarity, have all contributed importantly to the condition of the young underclass..."

"Years of liberal dogma have spawned a generation of amoral, uneducated, welfare dependent, brutalised youngsters." in the Daily Mail.

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater: hard work for an ex-religionist. But examining how other cultures work who have zero association with your former religion can help re-center and re-root yourself.

many atheist groups ARE religions: gay marriage & liberal dogma

Example of the new de facto religion present among some atheist groups:

"Genuine Atheists and Illegitimate Christians Support Gay Rights."
...by Minnesota Atheists

Shaming. Fear-mongering. Belief Maintenance. Do people in China read the Christian Bible? Not much at all. How about in Russia? Not much. Also, once again, since religion is a natural phenomenon human morality CAN be and IS expressed in religion.

Video response then more commentary:

Quote of comments posted on the Minnesota Atheists page:

Sounds like a religion to me - the religion of the left. "You're not a 'true' atheist or humanist if you don't agree with 100% of the homosexual agenda." Indeed.

Dogma. Heresy. Excommunication. Sounds like a religion. Since religion is a natural phenomenon perhaps we need a new term. How about: "Meme set backed up by dogmas, heresy trials, witch hunts, and virtual or de facto excommunication courts."

Having examined the gay "movement" first hand for several years via a gay nephew & an uncle who died of AIDS, I can attest to the fact that it's rather highly unsavory & petty. It's also, in my view, a "death cult" - part of the more general "death cult" of the left, which embraces other views such as how concerns about overpopulation should mean YOU should not have any kids. A religious dogma that leaves you childless - sounds like a bad one to me.

...speaking as an atheist, and an enlightened humanist & naturalist.

Humanism / naturalism / atheism / science & Enlightenment advocacy does not mean embracing the homosexual agenda 100%, nor the other dogmas of the liberal death cult - not to me, as a human who values life, how we got here, and not wasting the little speck of time we have here.

Examples of atheist groups that are actually religions:

Minnesota Atheists
American Atheists
American Humanist Association
Atheist Community of Austin
Center For Inquiry

We already know Unitarian Univeralism is a religion. It's just that these other groups have now become one also. Leftist religion - still a religion nevertheless, with unquestionable dogmas, elders, and de facto heresy & excommunication trials.

The "gay marriage" question has become a watershed issue, showing not which destructive outlier human behavior "deserves" the "right" to indoctrinate all and suck children into the cult of homosexuality, but rather, to show which supposedly "objective," "skeptical," "free thinking" groups actually, in fact, have any real connection to reason, objectivity, skepticism, free thought, and what could be called: honest true enlightened humanism and naturalism.

Human groups have taboos against destructive behaviors for some damn good reasons. This fact seems largely lost on the naive leftist new-atheism-religionists.

According to a political compass I'm still a leftie in some respects, largely on economic and social welfare issues (eg: the dole, social security, and advocacy for single payer healthcare). On abortion I think it should be discouraged, but legal before viability. On gay marriage I'm against it. Contractual allowance via civil unions - maybe. But marriage's primary focus is and should remain children and continuing the human species. Homosexual sex is inherently non-reproductive, and homosexual culture is generally speaking destructive & petty. Children should not generally speaking be exposed to such culture.

Still a leftie?

Well, since I don't agree with gay marriage, according to the lefties I've spoken with I'm now in the same camp as the ultra-right. Ok, well, on that issue maybe I am - and maybe that fact speaks to the bogusness of the above scale. Maybe "post-modern?" But reportedly post-modernists agree with gay marriage. So it's all rather too simplistic. How about: Honest human?

Take in enough data & maybe you'll change your mind. An honest human would & should do that.

more references and links:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013_08_01_archive.html

8-19-2013 4:44pm

Embrace life: What will you do with your speck of time here?

Advocacy for a enlightened naturalism, humanism, atheism, and memetics ROOTED in human nature, flourishing, life, honest science & history, and in the revolutionary concept that because religion is a natural phenomenon, many of their stigmas & taboos have damn good reasons for being there.

TheGreat Mandala - taking your place on it.

"Liberal values" reportedly includes advocacy for "diversity," but only a diversity of acceptance. What if a given culture has good human-centered reasons for a given taboo or stigma? Does your advocacy for "diversity" include allowing around you people who believe that certain human activities very much need "shame" attached to them? Examples: adultery; wild sex with many partners with no commitment; sex with underage people; and even, heaven forbid, sex with people of the same sex. What if another human culture draws the line of acceptable behavior at a different place than you? Will you welcome into your "big tent" of supposed diversity such cultures & people?

The word "bigot" implies a lack of knowledge. But we have knowledge. Cultures which ascribe shame to some or most all of the activities mentioned above (adultery, homosexuality, etc.) have knowledge - human knowledge about impacts. Belief in some god is just the WAY some humans otherwise preserve  ideas which offer protection from harm & damage, and it's simply the WAY they promote life. But, come to find out (and this is also a revelation for the religionist also), *humans who have no exposure* to the Christian Bible, or the Koran, or the Torah, ALSO have stigmas & taboos regarding the exact same destructive behaviors you're concerned about!

So, we're not talking about Biblical morality, or religious morality - rather, for these widely shared stigmas & taboos, we're talking about HUMAN morality! How's that supposed "humanist" & "naturalist" in America? Can you accept the key concept that being human does, for good reason, include having stigma for behaviors which you currently want to advocate for - for "equal rights?" But not every human behavior is worthy of respect. And it's not bigoted to say this - it's just the facts. Human facts. Natural facts. Human animal facts.

CAN an atheist, an ex-conservative-religionist, look back and realize that at least some of what they were taught while in a cult was in fact stuff rooted in human nature (& therefore worth considering & valuing), as opposed to stuff that was associated with the lies that were in their former religion?

There will be push-back from people who are still very angry at being lied to. I am still angry about this also. But, having examined countries who have zero do to with the religion of my youth, when I examine what THEY do, it makes me more fully realize that the list of taboos in a given religion CAN actually be beneficial to human survival, thriving, and happiness.

14 billion years of evolution by natural selection. You're here. You have one little speck of time. What are you going to do with your time here?

August 19, 2013 7:57am