"The faith and family (formerly) left" is the group which most closely matches my views...

America's mushy middle: eight types of voters:
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28025641

Thanks 1.3 billion Chinese, oh and the Black Atheists of Atlanta, and even your average Mexican, for helping me question the leftists who hate "breeders," and life, and who are essentially wastrels part of a destructive death cult.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/forget-republican-or-democrat-americans-divide-by-their-values/2014/06/27/00e86ac4-fe2c-11e3-91c4-01dcd9b73086_story.html

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/am-i-a-faith-and-family-leftist/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=am-i-a-faith-and-family-leftist

There's often zero room in your average atheist / humanist / Unitarian Universalist group for people who question the incredibly naive, dangerous, destructive, denialistic, nihilistic, narcissistic, denial of human nature, history, evolutionary biology, and so on, social positions of the left. The leftist death cult. Yes, I'm skeptical of that! Life is more important than these wastrels & their kin. Oh, but wait, they usually don't have children. But breeders will inherit the Earth...

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/06/breeders-will-inherit-earth-problems.html

Additional thoughts including how Unitarian Universalism and the ultra-left is very similar to the Shaker religion.

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/shakers

All the many grey haired people at the First Unitarian Church in Salt Lake City. Very few children. And a general cultural hatred for having children.

STFU Parents:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/stfu%20parents

Childfree:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/childfree

De facto celibacy. Slow motion suicide.
http://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-Europes-Motion-Suicide/dp/B0096EPE48

Childfree yourself & everyone afflicted by the memetic dissease that infects your brain, right out of existence...

And Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, was a eugenicist.

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/03/margaret-sanger-also-amoral-fuck.html

These people just don't get it:
http://www.meetup.com/aofuslc/events/117023522/
http://www.slugmag.com/uploads/photos/img19665.jpg


Good without god? Well, maybe not.

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/family-values-atheism-questioning.html

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/recovery-from-atheists-of-utah.html

Doesn't mean there is a god. But humanity may not quite be easily readily to go without this fully natural evolutionary trait (religion), like it or not.

-----------------------

July 2017 addendum:

I'm not longer in the leftist camp at all.

From socialist to very pro-capitalist.

From social leftist to social consevative.

Pro baby killing to pro life (with caveats for incest and rape, and only during very early pregnancy).

Against outlier 'marriage.' Children deserve to be in a normal-for-them environment, one which honors 1.2 billion years of sexual evolutionary history.

When leftists control the government they operate it in such a way which serves to deny their own evolutionary history and nature.

Federal Appeals Court: Gays Have Right to Marry, And Everyone Has AIDS!

Federal Appeals Court: Gays Have Right to Marry
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/court-utah-gay-marriage-ban-unconstitutional-24298290

And everyone has AIDS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StPTCo5qk8E

The extreme naivete of Unitarian Universalism, expressed yet again by having one of their churches headed up by a freakish extreme outlier:

http://archive.sltrib.com/images/2009/0619/gayunitarian_0620~3.jpg

...a particularly & acutely unattractive woman to man experiment.

How else UUs are naive:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-new-creed-of-unitarian-universalism.html

Heard that Mohamed was an advocate for social justice crap at the SVUUS.

This guy is welcomed into the gay community:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695261750/Secret-shame-Predator-was-coach-Scout-chief.html?pg=all

Gay "marriage" is a key indicator of how the left is in near complete denial of human nature, and evolutionary history.

It's still Duck Dynasty Pride Month:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/06/duck-dynasty-pride-month.html

And with the passing of Christopher, his brother Peter is becoming more appealing every day, even if he himself doesn't accurately identify where his own morals come from:

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/06/im-in-hitchens-camp-christopher-before.html

Daniel Dennett's dangerous idea is one key: Religion is a natural phonomenon. Thus fully natural & useful human morality exists within religion.

We need protection from the pitfalls of human nature. Protection from outliers. Yes religion & culture help manage all this, for very natural & reasonable & rational & evolutionary reasons. An evolutionary response to how evolution has set us up.

So, judges can be incredibly naive. Even conservative ones. Outliers naturally come about. But they need to be a.) classified & identified for what they are, and b.) curtailed when they're destructive or dangerous. Not forcibly treated as "equal" in all venues IMO. For example maybe a child needs a mommy & daddy, ideally, for it's own best welfare & development - as a normal non-outlier child. Can the left (& libertarians) question their own presuppositions? Are they in denial about human nature also? I have observed that they are.

"Freaks Welcome Here." This is the key motto of the SVUUS, and of Unitarian Universalism / leftistism / atheism plus / most atheists groups. De facto.

But outliers won't inherit the Earth.

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/06/breeders-will-inherit-earth-problems.html

I agree with Adam Corolla on this point: "...I don’t want to be lying on my deathbed and realize gay marriage and legalization of marijuana is all I discussed the last half of my life..."

http://www.salon.com/2014/05/19/adam_carolla_where_are_all_the_jewish_roofers/

The UUs and their kin keep up the pressure.

Apartments? Ok. Jobs? Ok. Being funny? Yes please. Making art. Ok, good.

But raising kids? Not so fast.

When two John Thomases or two hoohaws can produce babies naturally, then there will be gay marriage.

Kids may well need a mommy & a daddy. 13.8 billion years of evolution by natural selection. Is that enough "proof?" Hey at least let's be skeptical of ripping children away form this long established fully natural non-outlier more-healthy norm, ok?

Even Dan Savage says that gay men are "pigs." Should two pigs raise a kid? Where's the naturally moderating force of a female human? The lesbian friends of the Dan-Savage-gay-couple? I don't think so.

Many gay "marriages" cheat:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/us/29sfmetro.html

Is a cheatin' marriage a good healthy place to raise kids?

A fully rational response:
https://4simpsons.wordpress.com/tag/same-sex-marriage/

And more general fully rational & reasonable responses:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Seculars-Against-Same-Sex-Marriage/293011477509961

http://secularpatriarchy.wordpress.com/2013/08/08/marriage-is-masculinity-and-coverture/

http://www.amazon.com/Conscience-Its-Enemies-Confronting-Institutions/dp/1610170709

Gayness is not a race:
http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2010/05/1324/

Neither is Islam:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/08/islam-is-not-race-not-ethnicity-salt.html

Gayness is a side effect of how sex gets set up in humans. A side effect. Not a primary effect. The primary effect results in reproduction. Children come from reproduction.

Any oh so natural vegan, and Whole Foods shopper, should recognize the high value in raising children in a more natural & healthy way. And adopted kids should have an environment which most closely matches the natural & health way.

Not a single woman who has no intention of having a man around, knocking on the sperm bank door.

Not two men, or two women, knocking on the sperm bank or adoption agency doors.

Leftist denial of human nature & evolutionary history, all so they can claim to be protecting everyone's rights. What about the right of the majority to be protected from dangerous or destructive outliers? Indeed. We have that right too.

I'm in the Hitchens camp. Christopher before. Peter now. Leftist denial of human nature.

I'm in the Hitchens camp. Christopher before. Peter now.

It's what happens after starting a family with a socially conservative atheist from rural China. No Bibles there.

Peter Hitchens vs Dan Savage


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQY4BuYWD4s
Listening to the incredibly crass way Dan Savage conducts himself is revealing. One wonders if he even knows where babies come from?

The left is in denial about human nature. Built in by evolution by natural selection good human values. Active denial. Dangerous denial. Abusive denial.

Agreed the Mormon Church abuses people. But so does the other side. It's hard to hold onto basic good human values when you've been so severely lied to & deceived. Takes time to recover. And then to recover from recovery.

Both the left & right are in denial about human nature. Both are rather highly upset at the prospect of admitting that we are human, set up by evolution by natural selection, to have build in morality, and an apparent propensity or high susceptibility for mysticism. The right doesn't like admitting that we are evolved animals. The left doesn't like admitting that we are evolved animals with built in morality & evolved culture - culture which helps us avoid the pitfalls built into human nature. Religion (AKA culture - ref Daniel Dennett) is a fully natural effect of how we've evolved.

Outliers naturally come about. But they need to be a.) classified & identified for what they are, and b.) curtailed when they're destructive or dangerous. Not forcibly treated as "equal" in all venues IMO. For example maybe a child needs a mommy & daddy, ideally, for it's own best welfare & development - as a normal non-outlier child. Can the left (& libertarians) question their own presuppositions? Are they in denial about human nature also? I have observed that they are.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-political-brain/
http://www.michaelshermer.com/tag/confirmation-bias/

And back to Peter, he was a leftist, then he moved more right. Same with me, after I met a socially conservative completely-non-bibical atheist from rural China.

My legacy website, more reflective of my first state after leaving Mormonism (ultra left after being ultra right):http://corvus.freeshell.org

Current blog - reflective of my recovery from recovery, and finally growing up:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com

Resignation from the FB group Uncensored LDS/Mormon Discussions

Today I resigned from the group Uncensored LDS/Mormon Discussions.

Why, might you ask?

Oh my god. The answer is so easy: Because the group has censorship!

Here's a copy of the letter I posted:

Ok I'm out of here. I returned to the Mormon pie for a while. Now it's time to leave I can see.

Previously I had mostly moved passed the need to constantly chat about the Mo church. Then I was invited to join this group. I was attracted by the "uncensored" label, and found some joy in being in a place which I thought was truly uncensored. An open forum. And so on.

My experience here was not fully pleasant. Personal attacks - once I questioned some people's dominant paradigms. Then having to block several people who either were directly offensive, piling on, and then as a defense to block a few others who looked to me like they probably were good candidates (because they probably wouldn't like hearing from the "other side" of a given issue as per their own profiles).

Many admins are still too "new exmo," or they've landed in a place where their whole being cannot easily tolerate criticisms of where they've landed.

I have no idea why I blocked one of the admins. But at the time I probably had a good reason. Maybe it's time to search for forums outside the scope of FB again. More anonymity. More freedom. Less control, in general. But mainly more freedom to speak.

FB does have a "blocking" feature. IMO it's generally an abuse to force people to refrain from blocking "all admins" on a given forum (especially when a given forum has many admins), if some of those admins are either a.) the attacking type, or b.) engage in admin-enabled pile ons, or c.) appear to be a person who probably would engage in an attack based on their own strong positions unyielding positions on a given issue.

Ok, so we'll see you on the flip side. Enough of the Mormon pie.

Recovery from Mormonism.

Recovery from the Exmormon Foundation.

Recovery from the Unitarian Universalists.

Recovery from the "PostMormon" coffee group.

Recovery from Atheists of Utah.

Recovery from naturalist & humanist groups who are religions unto themselves.

Recovery from a temporary wade back into the deep waters of Mormonism via this forum. Time to depart...

Don't stay too long w/recovery groups - for your own well being. Move on to greener pastures... That's my advise. I have. I need to remember that. Bye.

-----------------------

Anyway it's quite sad really. When Mormons leave the Mormon Church they easily retain their propensity to control & censor others. Is the reason for this that religion is a natural phenomenon? Perhaps. Perhaps it is simply natural to try to control other people. To try & force them to your own meme set's rules & ideals.

The "Uncensored LDS/Mormon Discussions" group is still hierarchical. Thus they MUST censor to maintain their hierarchy & leadership. Disrespect (or block for whatever reason) one of five admins, and you're out. That's censorship.

Also the group constantly chats about Mormon stuff. Really, I was mostly past the need to chat about Mormon minutia. I've got bigger fish to fry & better things to spend my time responding to. So really, it's perhaps a blessing in disguise that these ex-Mormons acted exactly like many ex-Mormons do: They act exactly like Mormons. So, time to move on past these people. And by the way, many other religions act like Mormons too. Heresy trials. Excommunication. Even liberal groups do this! That's why it's important to try & move beyond religion, where possible. To embrace fully free speech. Even free speech for those who hurt the feelings of others.

Honesty must take precedence.

The Mormon Church is not pro-family. | The old farts cannot stop us! | Moving forward.

Quotes from the Church of the Fridge

Under the Pretense of Love

"Yesterday the NY Times reported the purge of three notable voices who spoke out on real Mormon Issues from within the LDS church. John Dehlin of Mormon Stories, Kate Kelly, founder of the Ordain Women Movement, and Alan Rock Waterman of Pure Mormonism were delivered letters summoning them to church disciplinary councils where they are to be tried for apostasy. The news hit me harder than I expected it would. I have not met any of these people. But I know intimately the emotions they are facing in this moment..."

----end of quote
http://churchofthefridge.com/blog/2014/06/12/under-the-pretense-of-love/

Tearing families apart, while claiming you're trying to help them be together forever.

Directly putting a wedge between husband and wife, when one or the other aren't in.

Agreed. The Church is not about love. It's about control, hate, and money, and using the great & huge lie of "we love you" as a primary means of control.

Hearing that shit like this happens today reminds me that the cancer known as Mormonism is still fully alive. The old farts can still pull the levers.

The Mormon Church is not pro-family. Not fully. Not honestly. Yes families are produced. But they're families split right down the middle.

Attention Spencer Kimball, many of my nieces & nephews are out & free. Attention Boyd Packer, you couldn't keep us in. Our little factories are none of your fucking business. Attention, all the old farts at
https://www.lds.org/church/leaders?lang=eng
... you will not hold us down. Not any longer. The net has made us free. Excommunicate a thousand people, and you won't stop us. Our brains, bodies, and souls are no longer yours to command, nor control, nor abuse.

------

Initial exit journal created when I was more leftist, in response to being in recovery from the ultra-right:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm#history

Subsequently moved more toward the middle, after "recovery from recovery:" Also after finally starting a family, and meeting a socially conservative atheist woman from a completely non-Biblical culture.

Families Can Be Together Forever... Through Evolution!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/families-can-be-together-forever.html

Breeders will inherit the Earth. Problems with "recovery" from religion.

Is there evidence for a god?

There's evidence that people believe in gods.

There's also evidence that they believe in them for fully natural reasons.

Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WhQ8bSvcHQ

My own experiential & observational evidence shows that when people leave their religions they can assume that the opposite position is healthy or correct. They can then fall right into a virtual pit.

It takes time to "settle" after leaving a religion - if people will settle. Sometimes they don't or can't.

I cannot force myself to believe in clear & apparent lies.

I realize that humans are set up to believe in lies as a means of survival, avoiding destructive behaviors, reproduction, happiness, and so on.

On the other hand, there's some religions which really do grind people down & abuse them.

The ultra-left is just as much a religion as the ultra-right.

Unquestionable dogma & doctrines. Heresy trials. Excommunication.

They also deny basic human nature. Ignoring what desert, African, and Chinese tribes do, while focusing in & only valuing what the "hippie" tribes do & advocate for. Desert-tribe-o-phobia. Non-hippie-tribe-o-phobia.

All of what I've observed first hand.

I try not to surrender to peer pressure. Right now I'm pushing pretty damn hard against peer pressure on the left, just to even consider that the middle or right may have some valid points on some issues. Fully natural fully reasonable points which help protect people. Protection from the pitfalls of human nature. Protection from outliers. Yes religion & culture help manage all this, for very natural & reasonable & rational reasons.

Additional people who helped me on my journey:

Steven Pinker. Daniel Dennett. Christopher Hitchens. Michael Shermer. Sam Harris. And now even Peter Hitchens.

Maybe all of these people are more socially liberal than I am. But all of them have been willing to speak the non-PC truth that questions confirmation bias & presuppositions on the left as well as the right. Anyway just fyi.

First hand observational experience came from having what was an Alice in Wonderland journey or theme park ride through a lot of what ultra-liberalism has to "offer," plus one to China where they're much more socially conservative (and yet no Bible), which all led me to conclude what I conclude today.

I can talk about evidence for this or that. But my main point & position is that religion is simply a way for humans to have a cushion or protective cocoon around fully natural morality. Protection. Survival. Reproduction. And when people leave that cocoon they can go right off a cliff.

Religion is culture. And most all cultures include some form of religion - some more lighter than others. But even your average atheist has de facto doctrine & dogma - political & social views they consider non-questionable.

Religion is such a natural phenomenon that many atheist groups are religions. Unquestionable political & social doctrines & dogma. Exclusion. Attacks against those who are skeptical of their doctrines & dogma. Heresy trials. Excommunication. This all happens readily within most atheist groups.

But the abusive part of atheist religion is how they deny human nature. The part of human nature that says "yes, we should be concerned about outlier behavior." The part of human nature that says "yes, we should value & promote life and normal inherently-reproductive families."

Those who fool themselves into believing that the childfree life / outlier-marriage life is in any way equal to non-outlier inherently reproductive marriage fall right in line with, what is frankly, slow motion suicide. And everyone should be against suicide in any form.

related book:
Decline & Fall: Europe’s Slow Motion Suicide
http://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-Europes-Motion-Suicide/dp/1594032068

The low birth rate amongst people who've rejected a god shows how humanity is really only barely ready to not have gods. And in Europe all the childfree liberals are being overrun by humans in the Islam camp. The breeders will inherit the Earth, like it or not. And one place to step away from all this is China. Rural China, where they have very light religion, light ancestor worship, and yet more conservative values. No Bible. No Book of Mormon. How do they do it? They aren't caught up in "recovery" from bad bad religion, like much of the west is. They don't assume that the extreme opposite side is the "answer." And so on.

Duck Dynasty Pride Month!

Outlier pride month is here, out on the streets. And right along with it we must also have Duck Dynasty Pride Month.

Is Mormonism an outlier generation machine?
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/are-mormonism-catholicism-homosexual_24.html

Destructive outlier examples:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/02/a-high-abundance-of-angel-readers-and.html

Thoughts on adoption:

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/01/thoughts-on-gay-adoption-1-16-2014.html

Recovery from Atheists of Utah:

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/recovery-from-atheists-of-utah.html

It's hard to have pride when the ultra-left seems to be just as much a religion as the ultra-right.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/colorado-baker-shut-shopp-serve-gay-couples-article-1.1815868

Will artists be told what to paint now? Will authors be told what to write? We are being told what to think. And the penalty for not towing the party line is exactly the same as what it was in Mormonism.

Additional interesting posts found:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/2011/06/06/why-im-not-proud-of-being-gay/

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/2011/08/01/the-end-of-gays-gay-marriage-and-the-decline-of-the-homosexual-population/

http://jaymans.wordpress.com/2013/01/12/a-gay-germ-is-homophobia-a-clue/

1 out of 10 atheists (or is it 1 out of 100?) is skeptical of outlier pride. A rare gem amongst the naive masses. Now that's something to be proud of...

When is Duck Dynasty appreciation month? I think it's right now.

Maybe this is close also:
Ex-Gay Awareness Month 2014
http://www.voiceofthevoiceless.info/exgayawarenessmonth/

If such actions keep a person away from an AIDS infested glory hole, more power to ya. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_hole_%28sexual_slang%29
...very common in SF in the past according to this helpful man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKxYBch2LVM

July is the month for the non-outlier group!
http://heterosexualawarenessmonth.com/

Go July!

Make a baby! We want to make babies! We have a month to be proud of that!

Every month should be proud-of-life month.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Seculars-Against-Same-Sex-Marriage/293011477509961


For those who believe the "fight" is equal, it ain't:
Interracial Marriage and Same-Sex Marriage
http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2010/05/1324/

In a normal regular traditional marriage, AKA a marriage, a human male and a human female can naturally produce a baby. Forcing the marriage term to include a wider scope does lessen the value, and the value of valuing & honoring & supporting, inherently-reproductive marriage. It may also damage children's need for a mommy & a daddy, in adoptive couples. A male & female parent, or adoptive parent, raising normal inherently reproduce-themselves-children.

Maybe I'm not 100% percent against inherently non-reproductive outlier "marriage," But I think it's important to be skeptical of denial of basic human nature, and remembering where life comes from.

Paddy Manning - in favor of retaining the normal regular traditional definition of marriage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h6yX4dY1Qs
and check out his written article:
http://thickerthantalk.blogspot.com/2013/11/this-piece-was-published-in-irish-daily.html

Since "pride" is in our face now again, I decided to post this info for your review.

Straight pride. Where'd you come from? Worth remembering & being proud of that - for most people, IMO.

Duck Dynasty Pride Month! Happening right now!

Has your life been happier after leaving Mormonism?

Questions: "...How has life been since you left the LDS church? Do you feel like you're happier?"

Yes, I'm happier, for many reasons.

I'm also upset, for other reasons.

Happy because:

1. I have a wife & kid who aren't Mormon.
2. I'm out.
3. I can touch my John Thomas.
4. I can engage in oral sex.
5. I can drink coffee, tea, and cabernet sauvignon wine.
6. I can watch Destricted, or Caligula without shame or guilt.
7. My kid won't be a Mormon.
8. I'm more intellectually honest.
9. I'm more emotionally honest.
10. I'm no longer in the soul-destroying culture of Mormonism.

Upset because:

A. The "recovery" groups like Atheists of Utah, Unitarian Universalism, CFI, Humanist groups, Minnesota Atheists, Atheism Plus, and even your local Stonewall center (for those so sucked in), are all de facto ultra-leftist religions, with their own unquestionable dogmas & doctrines. Denying human nature & human history, while claiming to be skeptical. Assuming that everything IS permitted when there is no god, even though it's not.

B. The defeatist Krausian mayfly theory of human existence is out there in the secular community, teaching atheists to be just as nihilistic as your average evangelical Christian.

C. Finding that the left can be just as abusive as the right.

D. Finding that the left is so incredibly myopic about the entire scope of human experience. Only the hippie tribes are valued. But desert tribes, or even Chinese tribes, oh, we must ignore them. Hippie colored glasses slant their view.

E. On the other hand, I'm also upset that the Mormon Church continues to destroy the lives of children & adults, via wide publication in many languages of incredibly abusive books like Miracle of Forgiveness. I'm also upset that sexually intrusive interviews still happen with children & adults.

More: http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/