Is the Mormon Church still interrogating children and adults about masturbation?

Is the Mormon Church still interrogating children and adults about masturbation?

Spencer Kimball & Boyd Packer, past & present prophets / Apostles of God, want into YOUR bedroom and the bedrooms of your children.

Teaching children to hate their own evolved sexual natures as they are coming of age, IS a reactionary ultra-leftist generation machine.

Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7StK16_cPQ

A related exchange from Facebook, quote begins:

I suggest that the way Mormonism deals with sexuality, results in the >exact opposite< of what they're hoping to accomplish.

Recently I encountered Jordan B. Peterson (JBP). I appreciate his approach, honestly, and general pragmatic social conservatism.

Below is a copy of an open letter I shared with him.

I am, now, fully on board with the pro-family pro-life pro-1.2-billion-year-evolved-marriage pro-reproduction pro-children project, but only after observing much of what the abusively permissive ultra left has to offer.

'Choose to be a non-outlier if you can'

https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2017/08/choose-to-be-non-outlier-if-you-can.html

I know there's a lot of non-Mormon Christians who're part of recovery from leftist crap. On the Mormon / Christian front there's a relevant old film called The Godmakers which mentions a boy named Kip who killed himself as a result of the Mormon approach.

Relevant clip from the film The God Makers:

https://youtu.be/jGDkIv3pROI

Longer: https://youtu.be/ljzVkt-I4Co

------ quote of letter shared with JBP

You've had some questions regarding Mormonism of late. Here's more info.

In response to your general work & for where you touch upon human sexual nature topics:

FYI Mormonism has: a.) frequent required interrogations re masturbation for adolescents & adults, b.) claims from their past prophets that masturbation can lead to homosexuality, c.) a 1982 letter from their leadership stating that oral sex is prohibited. These types of cultural religious requirements tend to generate reactionary ultra-leftists in response, a fact which otherwise defeats the top-level general good intentions of religions like Mormonism.

The founders of Mormonism had underage wives & wives who were still legally married to other men. I'm an ex-Mormon and it's taken me a very long time to recover, first from ultra-right Mormonism, and next from reactionary ultra-leftism.

Now I'm center-right socially & economically. Also I transitioned from being a morbidly obese virgin living in my parent's basement, to a somewhat less heavy regular-house-dwelling father of three with a happy family.

I appreciate your general advocacy for social conservatism, but this is an FYI note that some ultra-right religions do actively generate reactionary ultra-leftists. Interrogating youngsters regarding masturbation teaches them to hate their own evolved sexual natures.

I've listened to your stated stances on these topics and I generally agree with you. For sure our energies in these regards should be directed toward an inherently-reproductive partner. But when adolescents and adults are 'pushed too far,' results can happen which are the exact and precise opposite of what should generally be hoped & aimed for.

The ultra-left is no panacea utopian 'answer' to the ultra-right. Instead I suggest the answers lie with pragmatic honesty regarding human nature & what prompts humans to live happy lives.

References:

1. Mormon 1982 oral sex prohibition letter: http://stakepresident.blogspot.com/2011/05/oral-abstinence-key-to-happy-fulfilling.html

...as on a parody website, but the quoted letter is quite real.

2. Mormon-Prophet issued book stating that masturbation can lead to homosexuality, a book given to many youngsters w/in Mormonism: https://archive.org/stream/MiracleOfForgiveness/MoF_djvu.txt

3. My own exit journal, on what is now a legacy website which reflects the time when I was still a reactionary ultra-leftist:

http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/Mortal_Mormonism.htm

4. My more recent blog which documents my transition from ultra-left to basically center right economically & socially. http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/

5. Wives of the founders of Mormonism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives

6. Hundreds of stories of others who've left Mormonism:

http://www.exmormon.org/stories.htm

7. Anti-masturbation pamphlet given to many adolescents in Mormonism:

http://jhuston.com/Boyd%27s_Little_Factory.pdf

8. Another set of instructions given to young boys on the topic of masturbation:

http://mormoncurtain.com/topic_markepeterson.html

E.g.: "...yell STOP to those thoughts as loudly as you can in your mind."

In-person required interrogations of impressionable youth conducted by Mormon Bishops, interrogations starting as early as age 10.

Telling adolescents that masturbation can make one gay. For myself this was my first introduction to homosexuality - the Mormon Church telling me that if I masturbated I could become gay.

Telling adolescents to yell "STOP" in their minds when they have sexual thoughts.

Intrusive child & adult abuse.

For sure relations with real flesh & blood people of the opposite sex is preferable, but the above illustrations are frankly outright child abuse, and like I say ultra-leftist reactionaries are absolutely generated in response to the above highly hypocritical scheme, hypocritical in light of the documented actions of the founders of Mormonism.

In Salt Lake City there's very active & well attended 'Gay Pride' events, the headquarters of Mormonism. Two sides of the same coin. FYI.

-----------------

[I received a response from an LDS person at BYU (Brigham Young Universitiy) who scoffed at my account. My response to them:]

-----------------

The LDS Church, is IMO a gay person generator. Yes the approach of the Mormon Church drives people into the hands of the denialist left. On topic I suggest.

When 10 year olds are interrogated on the issue referenced, there's costs.

Yes I know that non-Mormon Christian churches want people to recover from being gay. That's great. Doug Mainwaring's path, is super & I support it.

But, as I note, the non-Mormon Christians have some rather strong concerns regarding the Mormon approach - as noted in the God Maker's film which documents the suicide of Kip Eliason.

I support the general top level social conservative goals of churches like Mormonism. But I'm suggesting they're shooting themselves in the foot by taking an approach which does drive people into the hands of the reactionary denialist left.

I suppose there's some value in culture for making note of how people's lives are actually lived. When I protested Mormonism, holding up Bruce Bagemihl's book 'Biological Exuberance,' I was a reactionary noob. Got my picture in the paper for the privilege. Now I see Bagemihl's approach as being myopic.

What's 'selected for' with humans is inherent reproduction. What makes humans the most happy, is reproduction. Life. Having children. Nihilism is a dead end.

Yes the Mormon Church is tempering their approach. The book widely handed out to church youth, Miracle of Forgiveness, which taught that masturbation would make you gay, is no longer in LDS Church distribution centers. Thank goodness. And many people, including many Mormons reportedly, are glad it's no longer there. But I suspect the interrogations of 10-14 year olds is still taking place. These kids first exposure to homosexuality, is via these interviews & teachings.

Cruising along as a normal kid, and then you encounter this crap? There are costs. The death of Kip Eliason. And yes, I would suggest, a hugely popular 'Pride' culture going on in Salt Lake. Reactions to going too far.

So I agree there's darn high value to the promotion of inherent reproduction. For god if you wish. For Jesus, that's fine. But also to honor 1.2 billion years of our own evolution as sexual animals - 1.2 billion years being the amount of time sex has existed on this planet.

-----------------

[The BYU man told me that 'anecdotal accounts' mean nothing, but also that the anecdotal accounts of 'millions' of Mormons should be highly respected:]

-----------------

First hand observations & cogent reflections. Gay uncle, dead of AIDS due to the glory hole culture of San Fran, leaving his straight family with no father. He grew up in Manti, Utah. From ultra-right to ultra-left, then dead.

Gay nephew, sucked into gay culture after having really an overly harsh Mormon father and a passive Mormon mother.

Myself, a reactionary ultra-leftist social justice warrior for several years until I woke up & decided to stop being a nihilist.

First hand lived experiences as a Mormon. Seeing other's experiences.

I'm 100% on board with 5-word-top-level summaries of what Mormons advocate for socially, but I only joined that ship after many years of an Alice in Wonderstand style journey through the dystopian denialist left.

Not to offend anyone, but I see religion as a fully natural phenomenon. Evolved traits couched within religious contexts. The Christian tradition is rather more valuable than others, because it allowed for a Reformation & Enlightenment.

If the Mormon Church is still interrogating 11 year olds about masturbation, such acts have costs I suggest. What are the costs other than the occasional suicide? 'Pride' I suggest. Stonewall reactionaries who see it as their key mission to defeat, the otherwise mostly-good & valuable family values that come out of 50 E. N. Temple (or 47 E. S. Temple).

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not taking things out of the air. First hand observations & reflections. If you don't agree that's ok...

--------------- [The BYU man scoffed and dismissed more. My further response:]

Can you confirm or deny the interrogations referenced are still taking place? Widespread, or not so much?

Not to quell the Lord's Path to Truth or anything. Life does kind of suck, for the canary who has to actually enter the coal mine.

Does the squeaky wheel get the grease or the hammer within the gilded cage? I've had many hammers swung at me over the years, from the right and the left (mostly from the left these days, but I'll take all comers).

The elephant in the room.

The de facto cultural link, between 47 E. S. Temple and 255 E. 400 S.

Regarding anecdotal accounts:

The experiences of millions? Wouldn't that be just a higher number of easily-dismissible anecdotal accounts?

I don't claim anecdotal accounts should be automatically dismissed.

I'm just saying that on one hand you discount my experiences, the lived experiences of others, the suicide of the young man Kip referenced, while at the same time claiming that the anecdotal experiences of others should be rather highly valued.

'Pride' can just grow & grow & grow & grow in Salt Lake, and the guys in the Church Admin building can go on their course pretty much ambivalent to what I'm talking about I suppose. But frankly, I think there >is< a creep of SJWism (social justice warriorism) within Church HQ.

Kimball's horrible book as referenced, gone from the Church Distribution centers. Ding Dong The Witch is Dead - the song comes to mind.

On the creeping-SJW front: At the Utah Museum of Fine Arts, where LDS Church owned property is on display, they now have signs which state that "UMFA acknowledges that gender is not binary."

Art department managers now get to negate 1.2 billion years of history & our own evolved nature?

I have notified the Mormon Church about the signage and the risks such signs pose to women (the signs also say that men can use the women's restrooms if they want). Women of course, real women, have zero choice in this matter.

What's the response of the Mormon Church to this situation, after being notified? Crickets.

I know they teach evolution and biology at BYU, as I've been there first hand (yet another one of those pesky anecdotal accounts).

I'm aware that this forum is intended to serve as a support structure apparently for people who'd like to recover from denialist leftism and who'd like to live lives of inherent reproduction.

As a man with children, I don't want to see my children sucked into the denialist cult of abusively-permissive-leftism. The leftist cult which wants to put a gold star on the foreheads of those who're the very best, at not having children.

The people at the helm of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, have apparently chosen to shelve Kimball's horrible book. That Is Progress.

More Christians. And even More Mormons. That's ok. But on the other hand, child abuse is child abuse. And the types of interrogations mentioned, IMO turn some of the victims into ultra-leftist reactionaries.

Why would I bother to even have this discussion? What's >my< agenda on this front? I want people to be happy, and I want the truth to be out there. The truth is the ultra-left is not a panacea answer to the ultra-right.

If you visit Pride, and Stonewall, and the Unitarian Universalist Churches, and Atheist of Utah parties (A of U is now run by Stonewall SJWs - and they booted me when I told them I liked Duck Dynasty) - if you were to visit these places you'd find cultural refugees who're basically 'in recovery' from the Kimball-Packer approach to things.

If people can find happiness via being Mormon, that's ok mostly, but children should not be interrogated for masturbation when they're coming of age, interrogated by strangers. And the costs for doing such are many.

----------------------------------------

'Questions for Mormon Missionaries - God, Sex, and honesty | 16 questions for Mormon Missionaries'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/03/questions-for-mormon-missionaries-god.html

As the answer to the question I post appears to be yes, after checking, the following new page was created:
'Mormon Bishops are Child Abusers'
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2017/10/mormon-bishops-are-child-abusers.html

Choose Life! Reject the violent fascist marxist racist enslaving death cult of the left.

Choose Life! Reject the violent fascist marxist racist enslaving death cult of the left.

 

(link to video: https://youtu.be/PxL1nxY4BhM )

Redpill and recover from the violent fascist marxist left. I redpilled from Clinton appreciation, from Obama appreciation, and from being a Democrat. Now I'm essentially a socially conservative small L libertarian. A pragmatic pro-freedom truth teller.

Choose Life.

Choose, to have a family, the 1.2 billion year evolved kind.

Choose, to be the master of your own destiny rather than to rely on the mommy & daddy socialist-ponzi-scheme State.

Call out, liars and cheaters.

Choose Life instead!

Promote, the value of the Western Enlightenment project, of which America is the best and most faithful example.

-------------
1. The wastrel dumbshits of Antifa, come to Utah. Their psychopathic tendencies, exposed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmNz2jGzsDA

2. Leaving the Fascist Marxist Left - February 2017
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2017/02/leaving-fascist-marxist-left.html


Posted October 2, 2017

An Open Letter to Harald

Hi Harald,

Hope things are going well. I wanted to thank you for making my family possible.

As I was leaving the Mormon Church I was going to university taking physics courses. At that time I thought that 'science and reason' had all the answers. Eventually I sought out atheist and 'humanist' groups, and I found a group you and I used to be members of: Utah Atheists, which later changed their name to Salt Lake Valley Atheists (SLVA), and SLVA was later dissolved and unilaterally absorbed into the separate Atheists of Utah.

Reason & skepticism means being willing to see if our beliefs are falsifiable. But atheist groups do not operate as engines of reason & skepticism. My first exposure to this fact happened as I was attending meetings with you for SLVA.

During one meeting for SLVA, Atheists of Utah existed as a separate entity from SLVA. SLVA was the longer running local atheist group. A president of Atheists of Utah (A of U) was at the SLVA meeting with his pro-life atheist girlfriend. At the SLVA meeting in question, the potential for a merging of SLVA with A of U was discussed. During the meeting members of SLVA stated that a merging was not possible because the girlfriend of the A of U president was pro-life, and it was stated that SLVA had always been 'pro-choice.'

This whole observed experience seemed strange to me at the time. Shouldn't the words 'reason' and 'skepticism' mean that we have an open exchange of ideas? But in this case a pro-life atheist was quickly booted and a merging of two atheist groups was rejected also because of the pro-life stance of a woman in the other group.

A few years later SLVA was unilaterally absorbed into A of U - SLVA was taken over by A of U and essentially simultaneously dissolved. This happened after a.) the past president with his pro-life girlfriend moved out of state and they had a baby together, and b.) A of U was taken over by Gay-Pride festival attendees (local Stonewall Center people).

While the pro-life-girlfrinded A of U president was still president of A of U, he made the mistake of doing membership outreach during 'Pride,' and this then resulted in A of U being completely taken over by 'Pride' participants.

Your wife helped me find my wife. Yes the fact that I have a wonderful family now, is thanks to the efforts of your wife. So thanks to her and you for that.

You were a 'Utah Atheists' person, a group dominated largely by those over 60. SLVA continued in that vein. Whereas the history of A of U differs a bit, in that yes there is now a lot of young people who attend, but mostly all people who love 'Pride' type events.

What is Atheists of Utah? It's a social group for Pride attendees and nothing more. If A of U were about science & reason, they wouldn't boot conservatives. Similarly if SLVA were a group whose focus were science & reason & skepticism, they wouldn't have booted conservatives & refused a merging with A of U back in the days when A of U was headed by an atheist man who had the audacity to have a pro-life girlfriend.

Regardign SLVA, at another meeting I recall a libertarian was invited to speak. At the time of that particular meeting I was still an economic-leftist. Thus during the Q&A I argued vociferously with the libertarian atheist speaker.

With SLVA, they didn't outright boot the rare libertarian, but libertarians were not really welcomed with open arms. The libertarian man was treated, by myself and others at SLVA, rather like a turd in a swimming pool.

After starting a family, I observed that my wife was basically a social conservative, with zero connection to the Bible or Book of Mormon or Quran. Pro-traditional-marriage. Skeptical of outlier pride. It was an eye opening experience.

As is normal for some, the process of starting a family naturally caused my own social views to move in the conservative direction.

Meanwhile I was still attending A of U weekly coffee chats. By this time A of U had been taken over by the Pride attendees and the pro-life girlfriended past president of A of U had moved out of state.

At one Pride-lover-run A of U coffee chat, a foul mouthed lesbian woman bemoaned how she didn't like 'breeders.' I was surprised by the crass and stupid crafting of such a response. Didn't she appreciate how she came into existence? 1.2 billion years of sexual evolutionary history, and then this type of anti-life anti-'breeding' crap comes out of the mouth of people like this foul crass woman.

But her anti-children response was not a one-off. For example for an A of U house party we were explicitly told that the party was 'not children-friendly.'

Back in the days when A of U wasn't run by Pride-Stonewall people, children were always welcome at the A of U parties. But regarding the non-reproductive outliers who love Pride & Stonewall, kids are definitely not on their list of priorities. Thus the 'Pride' incarnation of A of U was overtly anti-children and anti-reproductive-family.

The final straw with A of U came when I told them I liked Duck Dynasty. This stated heresy triggered all the social justice warrior (SJW) inclinations of the A of U leadership. A public heresy trial was conducted for myself on the A of U public facebook forum and I was booted and banned from their forum by their leadership.

So Harald, I voluntarily left the Mormon Church. But, I was booted from one in-person atheist group for my social views. And in subsequent months & years, I've also been booted from many other online atheist/humanist/naturalist groups.

With reactionary-leftist run atheist groups, there are definitely all the trappings of religion present. Dogma. Doctrine. Heresy trials. Excommunications.

I don't think you've been keyed into a lot of this history.

After being booted from A of U, I encountered an ex-Muslim atheist cartoonist who appreciates Ayn Rand. I observed the left's response to the Charlie Hebdo massacre. I observed what happened with the Draw Mohamed Cartoon Art Contest in Garland, Texas, how two Muslims wanted to shoot up the conference, and how the cultural left wanted to ban the conference and blame the victims and conference organizers for the violence - rather than to blame the human spirit destroying cult of Islam. In the wake of Hebdo & Garland, I observed that mostly only libertarians supported freedom of speech.

In the wake of Islamic attacks the cultural left wanted to kiss Mohamed's ass. In response I started to take a first look at the libertarian views on economic issues.

The ex-Muslim atheist cartoonist I referenced keyed me into valuing the general Republican field for the 2016 presidential election. And I discovered other people, such as Mark Steyn, Douglas Murray, and Dave Rubin.

Dave Rubin introduced me to Milo Yiannopoulos. It was Milo who first introduced me to the value of having Trump as president.

I know you remember Christopher Hitchens. Hitchens was the one who first redpilled me regarding the corrupt raping nature of the Clintons. And later I learned of the pay to play whoring and rape enabling ways the Clintons, via the Clinton Cash book by Peter Schweizer and the similarly named graphic novel by Chuck Dixon.

Before the 2016 election, I didn't know much about Trump. Trump didn't have to run. He could have stood by and just let corrupt rape enabling pay to play whoring Hillary slide into office. Instead, he ran, and valiantly so.

Trump apparently wants to save America from the globalist raping whores who want to quash the American dream.

Now, today, I am basically a center right social & economic conservative. Pro-life. Pro-family. Pro-children. Pro-true history. Pro-true-evolution. Pro-true-science. Anti-chosen-forced-outlier. Pro-freedom-of-speech.

It's true that my wife, and my new family, helped me see the evolved & natural value of social conservatism, and social conservatism's power to help humans thrive and be happy.

In my transition away from leftism, there were a few other people who helped in addition to my wife.

They are:

Jordan B. Peterson
Gad Saad
Stefan Molyneux
Some of the people Dave Rubin & Joe Rogan interview on their youtube shows
Steven Crowder
Friend of Hitchens Dinesh D'Souza.

So Harald, as a friend, I've tried to share some of this info with you. During the 2016 election season, I started emailing you more regularly.

Remember that for many years, you would send me general broadcast emails once a month or more on political issues, always advocacting for the leftist side on all issues. But, when I finally returned the favor and started emailing you regular with new info I had found as noted above, you became angry.

In response you to my first few emails after coming out as a conservative you send me an email stating that you would auto-forward all of my emails sent to you back to me. My response to this stonewall & 'facepalm' was to naturally and reasonably take offense. Years of friendship, and helping me find my wife, and many dinners and in person visits, straight out the door when I revealed to you that I had essentially redpilled and become a conservative.

Harald you sleep during the day, and you wake up at about 4:30pm just so that you can watch Mr. Rachel Maddow on MSNBC. You refuse to join Facebook and other social media. You run a legacy website which mostly no one visits now. And you have chosen to have zero exposure to other sources of information beyond whatever it is that MSNBC shovels into your brain on a daily basis.

We still come over to your house on occasion, perhaps once a year now instead of once every two weeks or so as in the past.

When I come over to your house now, I cannot discuss what's really on my mind & what I'm thinking now about life the universe and everything.

Functionally, you have treated me exactly the way Mormon families often treat their dissident members & dissident children: with angry and often a booting out the door. Muslims do this also to their dissident family members. Scientologists also. And yep atheists too. Religious-style booting, to a T.

Functionally, atheist groups you've been a part of treat dissidents who differ with the general group on social or economic issues, they treat such people with disdain and heresy trials and excommunications. Atheist groups act exactly like religions do. Tow the party line, or you're out!

Thus Harald, I question the veracity and validity of the 'leftist project,' as exemplified by:

1. Social Justice Warriors (SJW).
2. The Democrat Party.
3. The Unitarian Universalist Church, which is nothing more than an SJW outlier church and a magnet for reactionary-leftists with hurt feelings about the ultra-right.
4. The Stonewall Centers nationwide, which are denialist cults regarding human nature.
5. Humanist groups, which are seas of grey hair where children are very rare.
6. Atheist groups, which are not really interested in honesty regarding the human condition.

Religion couches evolved traits. This is a damn hard thing for an ex-religionist with a chip on his shoulder to admit.

The 'answer' to the ultra-right isn't ultra-leftism. Rather it's just advocacy for increased honesty.

Yes there are no literal gods. But without god not everything is permitted.

Harald, I thank you because your actions led to a path which then allowed my family to exist. But overall I think my family exists precisely in spite of the anti-children anti-family culture present within leftist run atheist groups (and within general cultural leftism), and not because of any particular pro-family stance of such groups.

A gold star on the forehead of those who're the very best at not having children. This is what the cultural left is about today: slow motion suicide.

As my family was growing, you did somewhat playfully accuse me of having 'Mormon values,' and of wanting more children because I was 'still a closet Mormon.'

No Harald, I'm not a closet Mormon. I'm an 'out of the closet' 1.2 billion year evolved inherently-reproductive sexually-dimorphic sexual-animal, merely doing what I am rather thankfully inclined to do, and what I believe humans thrive best via doing: promoting life!

The abusively-permissive leftist clamors for one-sided stilted 'joys' and pleasures of non-reproductive sex, without recognizing why sex exists in the first place: to have children.

The hippies thought they were just so revolutionary, with all the let it all hang out attitudes and atmosphere. They were noobs and naive fools Harald. They didn't understand that for all of our past history, sex equaled children period.

Your average Whole Foods shopper, who values 'organic' food, should value what human nature really is and why it exists in the first place.

If atheist groups were about reason & skepticism, they'd invite with open arms economic and social conservatives! But they don't!

Religion is do damn natural, that two or more atheists gathered in the name of their usually-leftist reactionary social agenda, can't help but form de facto religions, with all the trappings of religion, and pretty much zero reason, zero honesty, and zero true skepticism.

Harald I say:

Go Trump.

Go Sebastian Gorka.

Go Stephen K. Bannon.

Go Breitbart.

Go Jordan B. Peterson.

Go Milo Y.

Go Gad Saad.

And may the family which you helped create, in spite of your stances & views & history & memberships, continue to grow and thrive. Thanks Harald.

Sincerely,

Jonathan

--------------------------

Articles relating to my journey to conservatism:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/conservative
Harald Illig

Leftist atheists want into your bedroom far more than the right! Evolved morality is couched within religious contexts. An open letter to 'New Atheists,' such as Michael Shermer, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, Faisal Saeed Al Mutar, and others. Also to: The Atheism Plus crowd. Atheists of Utah. Atheist Community of Austin. Unitarian Universalist 'humanist' groups. To all these.

Evolved morality is couched within religious contexts. This fact is completely and utterly lost on atheists who are much more concerned with pushing abusively-permissive social-leftism than in being honest about religion.

(link to video: https://youtu.be/gA-F3p1OBmM )

Leftist atheists want into your bedroom and your bathroom - far more than the right. 'New Atheists' advocate for abusive-permissiveness, and for the mandatory forced-outlier-acceptance, of neomarxist postmodernist social leftism.

Abuses of the ultra-right, generate reactionary ultra-leftists.

When I was a Mormon I found that the ultra-right is very interested in what happens in bedrooms. The Mormon Church does go too far, via claiming that masturbation can readily lead to homosexuality, and that oral sex is bad. They also go too far via constant interrogations regarding sex. They push people, right over the edge and into the hands of abusively permissive reactionary ultra-leftists.

Islam of course goes much further in the abusive-shaming direction, with death penalties for going unveiled or alone on the street if you're a woman and so on.

Thus the ultra-right is interested in what happens in our bedrooms. But, so is the ultra-left.


With the cultural right, there's a great advocacy for having children and for normal family values.

With the cultural left, they claim that non-reproductive outlierism is the pinnacle of human achievement, and there is great advocacy for the exact opposite of family values.

Forced non-reproductive outlierism is not the touchstone upon which 100,000 years of human evolutionary history is based. Leftist atheists see not having children as being the highest moral & social value & goal.

Leftist atheists essentially ask: 'What type of non-reproductive outlier can you come out as! Choose, so you can get a gold star on your forehead, and rise up on the racist bigoted group rights group blames hierarchy of the left.'

The 'new atheists' / leftist atheists want an utter rejection of social conservatism. They lump in social conservatism with the derogatory label of "theocracy." The New Atheists fail to see how religions couch evolved traits.

Under the thin veneer of mysticism, some damn useful evolved human values are present.

Examples:

1. Pro-reproduction.
2. Pro-Family.
3. Pro-Children.
4. Pro-Life.
5. Pro-Good-Tradition.
6. Pro avoiding destructive dead end and suicidal behaviors.

Leftists in our bedrooms and bathrooms.

The people who want to get into my bedroom and bathroom most these days, are on the cultural left. Gender non-binarity and 'trans' bullshit: allowing mentally ill men to forcibly enter the restrooms of women and girls. Brainwashing children regarding gender and "sexual orientation," AKA advocating for both gender-dysphoria and sexual-orientation-dysphoria - and punishing dissenters religious-cult-style with heresy trials, excommunications, oh and the law too where the abusive crazies have their hands on the wheels of power.

Leftist Atheists want to draw my children into a victimhood competition, and one where outlierism is valued above all else.

Leftist eugenicist Margaret Sanger bankrolled both the abattoir of Planned Patenthood and the birth control pill. The latter item has had a nuclear bomb type impact upon humanity, and has left teens and adults not knowing why and how they got here in the first place.

I agree with Jordan Peterson on such fronts, although I arrived at my conclusions before finding Peterson. But he's right.

Leftist Atheists seek to tear evolved social conservatism out from both Christianity and Islam. They are following in the footsteps of a long line reactionary naive denialist fools.

Ultra right.

Ultra left in response.

A ping pong game.

And two sides of the same coin abusive coin.

A more moderate approach is called for.

Fact 1: Yes there's damn good reasons to avoid destructive dead end behaviors.

Fact 2: But if you are too harsh in your approach re fact 1, and if you lie to people about what the consequences are for lower level more harmless behaviors, you will generate reactionary fools in response.

Some people are waking up. Example: Former forced abusive outlier Doug Mainwaring.

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/author/doug-mainwaring/

There are evolved behaviors which can and do make us happy: family; children; helping our family & children & others; telling the truth about life the universe and everything. Quelling the darker angels of our nature, and also using those darker angels as a power for positive good.

In conclusion, stay out of our bedrooms Mr. & Mrs. & 'It-Outlier' Leftie, with your lies about human nature and about evolution and our evolved nature as sexually-dimorphic gender-binary sexually-reproducing sexual-animals.

Religion couches evolved traits. Live with it. Deal with it. Value it.

And as for the mystical claims, I suggest that a lot of them have, wait for it, evolved value too! Popular stories passed down for damn good reasons, and some of those reasons are damn valuable.

Sincerely,

Jonathan

-------------

Further references: 

'My Journey to Conservatism'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2016/09/my-journey-to-conservatism.html

Conservative Naturalism
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/conservative%20naturalism
'Lies present in conservative religion force children into the abusive arms of the denialist myopic left.'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2016/02/lies-present-in-conservative-religion.html

'UMFA and UMOCA unsafe for women and girls'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2017/09/umfa-and-umoca-unsafe-for-women-and.html

'Lives and families are destroyed by Tranny and Gay acceptance and promotion - LGBT abusive outliers are not equal'

https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/07/lives-and-families-are-destroyed-by.html

'Family Values Atheism: Questioning liberal dogma -- the Gay Flag: Freaks Welcome Here -- questioning gay marriage'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/family-values-atheism-questioning.html

'The Western Enlightenment versus Democrat leftist slavery'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-western-enlightenment-versus.html

Mormonism and oral sex:

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html

In 1982, the Mormon God speaks about oral sex through his prophets, seers, and revelators:
Page 1: http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
page 2: http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet,_seer,_and_revelator

A relevant parody of the situation: http://stakepresident.blogspot.com/2011/05/oral-abstinence-key-to-happy-fulfilling.html

-----------

Addendum regarding the Mormon claim that whacking off can make you gay:
---quote begins

Chapter Six 

Crime Against Nature 

—Their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust 
one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly— 
— Romans 1:26-27 

Youth come into contact early with masturbation. Many would-be authorities declare that it is natural 
and acceptable, and frequently young men I interview cite these advocates to justify their practice of it. 
To this we must respond that the world's norms in many areas-drinking, smoking, and sex experience 
generally, to mention only a few-depart increasingly from God's law. The Church has a different, higher 
norm. 

Thus prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is 
detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward 
godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man 
should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. 

While we should not regard this weakness as the heinous sin which some other sexual practices are, it is 
of itself bad enough to require sincere repentance. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even 
to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation- 
practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality. 

---from 'Miracle of Forgiveness' (what a bullshit title), by Mormon Prophet Spencer Kimball.
https://archive.org/stream/MiracleOfForgiveness/MoF_djvu.txt 

Response:

What Mormons do to their children and adults on the above front, with interrogations and grilling regarding normal coming of age activities, does push many to be forced abusive outliers. From the Mormon Temple to the local Stonewall Center. This is the common & normal path for children & adults so abused. Two sides of the same coin.

With such harshness, the Mormons hurt their otherwise worthy goals to help humans avoid destructive dead end outlier type activities. Also for many kids in Mormonism, this is their "sex ed," where they learn about homosexuality first.

Let us agree that there are behaviors which are not helpful and which lead to dead ends.

If we were to take was social conservatives advocate for, and make five word summaries of each, and live by those advocacies, we would all be more happy, more happy naturally as per our evolved natures. This is something both the utlra-right and the ultra-left should make note of.

If you ignore evolved facts, you will pay a price. And if you push to far in the shame direction, you will get very bad reactionary results.

Leftist atheists want into your bedroom far more than the right! Evolved morality is couched within religious contexts. An open letter to 'New Atheists,' such as Michael Shermer, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, Faisal Saeed Al Mutar, and others. The Atheism Plus crowd. Atheists of Utah. Atheist Community of Austin. Unitarian Universalist 'humanist' groups. To all these. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Stonewall.

Sam Harris, Michael Shermer, Neil deGrasse Tyson: Priests in the Cult of Climate Hysteria

The religious cult of climate hysteria, infects the brains of the 'new atheists.' There's other bad infections.

Socialism
Postmodernism
Third Wave Feminism, Critical Race Theory, Gender Studies, and all 'disciplines' which end with the word 'studies'
Marxism
Communism

Climate Change Hysteria is a tool used by authoritarians to control the lives of others. When will Sam Harris, Michael Shermer, and Neil deGrasse Tyson be leaving this cult?

I used to think scientific consensus had a direct correlation with facts. Now I see consensus as essentially being a warning sign indicating mindless lazy groupthink exactly consistent with all the trappings of a particularly bad religious cult.

Prime example: climate 'science,' aka Global Warming Hysteria.

There's cash to be made via lying, skewing data, misinterpretations, and having heresy trials and excommunications for detractors.

The current state of affairs is an utter sham, scam, Ponzi scheme, and cult.

VERY MUCH par for the course of humans.

Just recognize that climate-hysteria-related lab coats are nothing more than attire within a new bad religion, period.

Sanity, reason, skepticism, and honesty on the climate issue:

Christopher Monckton - excellent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RFj7wmp5-A

William Happer:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/yL1FU442RFDy/

Ivar Giaever:
https://vimeo.com/140399283

Judith Curry:
https://youtu.be/1L5AVBOh4SM

Mark Steyn:
https://youtu.be/yEBeF_Rz1MU

Bill Whittle:
https://youtu.be/v_RuverrEZ4

"‘Nearly All’ Recent Global Warming Is Fabricated, Study Finds."
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/07/09/delingpole-nearly-all-recent-global-warming-is-fabricated-study-finds/

The Church of Climate Change Hysteria, with priests and inquisitors. I don't wish to belong to this church which Harris, Shermer, and Tyson are apparent priests of.

UMFA and UMOCA unsafe for women and girls

Video commentary:

(link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0OSXtiO6eU )

The Utah Museum of Fine Arts (UMFA) and Utah Museum of Contemporary Art (UMOCA) are unsafe places for women and girls. The cancer of neomarxist postmodernism has visited both government-owned museums.

If you're a normal human who isn't a forced abused abusive outliter, these government-owned places are actively disenfranchising you and yours. Discrimination, against the normal. Discrimination, against the sane. Risky unsafe environments for women, girls, and families.

More info:

Regarding the Utah Museum of Fine Arts:
'Utah Museum of Fine Arts: Unsafe for Women and Girls! UMFA Unsafe!'
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2017/08/utah-museum-of-fine-arts-unsafe-for.html

Regarding the Utah Museum of Contemporary Art:
'Ultra-leftists force women to use the men's restroom.'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2016/05/utah-first-opposites-attract-in-shadow.html

South Main Clinic is racist - University of Utah & Salt Lake County are racist also

About a year after filing a complaint with the University of Utah & Salt Lake County regarding their joint South Main Clinic, at 3690 Main Street, Salt Lake City, Utah 84115, I received a 'final' response from the University of Utah: go to hell. A denial in other words. Salt Lake County never responded nor acknowledged my complaint at all. Never once. The University did respond, but only with what is essentially a middle finger.

Video commentary on the situation:




(link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpdBT9oZ7MY )
If you speak Spanish, you will get top treatment. If you speak another language, you will get bottom treatment. If you complain, they will essentially show you the door. Salt Lake County, and the University of Utah Office of Equal Opportunity, are both utterly worthless regarding complaining. They don't care. And they also don't care about the fact that the University promised my family in writing that they would honor our translation preferences. They broken this promise, and they also could care less about how they have unequal treatment at South Main.

More info:

'University of Utah South Main Clinic: Racist hostile discrimination'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2016/08/university-of-utah-south-main-clinic.html

Utah Museum of Fine Arts: Unsafe for Women and Girls! UMFA Unsafe!

Proof that postmodernist fools and morons are present:

Video commentary in response:

link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0OSXtiO6eU

Denialist fools and abusive morons, morons who deny 1.2 billion years of evolutionary history and basic evolved human nature.

My response, to the museum - which they later censored on their Facebook page.

The cancer of postmodernism visits UMFA.

Risky, pro-rape culture, allowing men into the women's restrooms.

Human gender is binary.

Your sign is a lie.

Fools and denialist morons 'acknowledge' otherwise.

And having the State of Utah make such claims via the University of Utah is outrageous.

I don't want my tax money going to support neomarxist postmodern lies.

Their response to me:

Jonathan, thanks for coming to the UMFA today. We hope you felt welcome. It's important to us that all of our visitors feel welcome, no matter their age, ability, knowledge of art, background, race, sexual preference, or gender identity. Thanks for sharing this sign—we're proud of it.

My follow up to them in response:

Being proud of shoving neomarxist postmodern cult ideology down the throats of all visitors, is not a good thing.

Women in the women's restrooms, don't have a choice w/this policy which is an affront to 1.2 billion years of evolutionary history and basic human biology.

The University of Utah and therefore the State of Utah, cannot declare by fiat utter lies about human nature, human evolution, and basic biological facts.

Humans are a gender binary species, period. And men, any men, do not belong in the women's restrooms.

A risky atmosphere, for women and girls.

Pro true rape culture.

If you must have a room for the gender dysphoric, make it single tenant.

Your post is a middle finger to all sane people within Utah.

No tax money to support the neomarxist postmodernist cult.

Copy of an email I've sent to my elected state representatives:

It's not up to an art museum, an art department, art graduates, the University of Utah, or the State of Utah to unilaterally decide they can alter biological & evolutionary facts, unilaterally change human nature, and reject 1.2 billion years of history. On a main Utah Museum of Fine Arts (UMFA) restroom they have a sign which states the following:

"While building code currently requires gender binary signs on the doors, the UMFA acknowledges that gender is not binary. Please use the restroom that feels most comfortable to you."

The claim that human gender is not binary is an absurd, abusive, and factually incorrect claim.

There is a flavor of neomarxism called social constructivist postmodernism, an ultra leftist ideology which is highly abusive.

I agree with Dr. Jordan B. Peterson and Dr. Gad Saad that postmodernism is a denialist cult of the left with roots in basic neomarxism.

1.2 billion years of evolutionary history, and basic facts of human nature, versus absurd governmental declarations by the State that gender is not binary.

The postmodern ideology of the social justice warrior (SJW), versus facts and reason.

Yes the cultural left does deny science and history and evolution and facts about human nature and human biology.

The cancer of postmodernism visits UMFA, the University of Utah, and the State of Utah.

Risky pro-rape culture: allowing men into the women's restrooms.

Human gender is binary.

Their sign is a lie.

Having the State of Utah make such claims via the University of Utah is outrageous.

I don't want my tax money going to support neomarxist postmodern lies.

Women in the women's restrooms, don't have a choice with this policy which is an affront to the integrity and safety of women and girls, and also to our very key nature as humans.

The University of Utah and therefore the State of Utah, cannot declare by fiat utter lies about human nature, human evolution, and basic biological facts.

Humans are a gender binary species, period. And men, any men, do not belong in the women's restrooms.

A risky atmosphere, for women and girls.

Pro true rape culture.

If they must have a room for the gender dysphoric, make it single tenant.

The UMFA sign in question is a middle finger to all sane people within Utah. And yes this is about a cultural war, in this case a battle between anti-science anti-reason virtue-signaling SJW leftists, and women and girls who deserve better.

What choice are women and girls given to in this case to not have men in their restrooms? None.

Truly-female children and truly-female adults deserve better, from the UMFA, the University of Utah, and the State of Utah.

Again it's not the place of art graduates, an art department, the University of Utah, or the State of Utah, to deny 1.2 billion years of our own evolutionary history and basic human nature.

Big brains can produce the mental illness of gender dysphoria. That doesn't mean we cease being a gender binary species.

Gender is binary in the human animal.

Please have the referenced sign removed at the State of Utah University of Utah museum known as the Utah Museum of Fine Arts.

-----

Description of new Facebook page created about this issue, created primarily because the UMFA has blocked me from posting comments on their facebook page in violation of the First Amendment:

The Utah Museum of Fine Arts is an unsafe environment for women and girls.

If you're a female you have ZERO CHOICE regarding whether men can spy on you while you use the restroom at UMFA. Zero, choice.

Also the UMFA claims that humans are not gender binary, which is historically, evolutionarily, and factually absurd. Humans are a sexually dimorphic species period.

What's really at play here is the cancer of neomarxist postmodernism and social justice warriorism (SJWism) creating an atmosphere where UMFA managers feed they must virtue signal. But their virtue signally is not only absurd it's also abusive.

1.2 billion years of evolutionary history and facts about human nature, versus postmodernist utter lies and abuse.

The UMFA is actively censoring posts about this topic on their own page, in violation of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution - the Redress of Grievances. UMFA is a public museum and is part of the State of Utah.

Related links:
'Lives and families are destroyed by Tranny and Gay acceptance and promotion - LGBT abusive outliers are not equal'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/07/lives-and-families-are-destroyed-by.html

Humans are a sexually dimorphic species, by Dr. Gad Saad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeYBG66YEs4

More from Dr. Saad: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/homo-consumericus/201212/sex-specific-toy-preferences-learned-or-innate

'Jordan Peterson - Equality Amplifies Gender Differences'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUxY_5-N81Q

More from Dr. Jordan B. Peterson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYtzFBI-INU

'Transgenderism Has No Basis in Science or Law'
http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2016/01/16143/

'National Geographic's "Gender Revolution": Bad Argument and Biased Ideology'
http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2017/01/18491/

An unfortunately-gender-dysphoric person (Blaire White) speaks about how gender is not a social construct:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9WqfBDjRF8

Ben Shapiro on the issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtuqmThPE5c

Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Utah-Museum-of-Fine-Arts-is-Unsafe-For-Women-and-Girls-519332035083387/

Choose to be a non-outlier if you can

I used to be an forced outlier. A 'childfree' morbidly obese suicidal fat bastard SJW living in my patent's basement.

Then I grabbed life by the pussy, redpilled in many ways, and changed.

https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2016/09/my-journey-to-conservatism.html

I've been banned from many leftist groups on FB, a few in person ones, and a few 'libertarian conservative' groups. Big L libertarians do have a large blind spot when it comes to abusive permissiveness.

Today I was banned from a 'conservative atheist' group. I'm too conservative for the group owner.

https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2017/08/banned-from-conservative-atheists.html

In any case I greatly appreciate Dr. Jordan B. Peterson's work & his advocacies. And having checked out Stefan Molyneux's past & present vids I can see how his redpilling process has been similar to mine.

Thank goodness I'm no longer the fat bastard pictured below. Grab life by the pussy, and change for the better.

And as for the book pictured, I disavow it's premise now also.  Outlierism is a side effect of the evolutionary process and it's >not< selected for. Thus the fallacy of leftist 'scientists' on such fronts. Yes sex is such powerful force that there's spill over effects. But in general you'll be happier if you can find yourself, or choose to have yourself, be in the non-outlier pool.

Banned from a conservative atheists facebook group: conservatives who aren't conservative.

Today I was banned from a facebook group called Conservative Atheists. https://www.facebook.com/groups/48625003215/

I was banned for posting the following comment in response to a post. The original post asked if 'LGBTs' had a place in conservatism. I posted my response and then was banned within about 14 hours. Here's a clip of the post to which I was responding...

Conservatism is conservatism.

----- quote begins of banned post

Space or safe space?

Socially conservative would mean conserving and valuing our 1.2 billon year evolved morality.

Are you inclined to make one of these (see the small human animal pictured) au naturel or not? If not, you are an outlier, either a forced victim of abusive postmodernism, or a much less common DNA type.

T - the gender dysphoric exist for sure. May they find recovery via mental health counseling.

L - please loose weight and try to be more attractive. You're cheating yourself and others.

G - most are abuse victims and forced outliers.

B - abusive denialist cheaters. Choose to be a non-outlier if you can.

---- end of quote

Wolves in the hen house apparently, or at the very least touchy outliers who don't like the truth of long standing biological history and evolution.

Apparently the LGBTPZ fiscal conservatives will not tolerate social conservatives who question their denialist liberal doctrines.

Gays are victims of postmodernism.

When I see people jumping off a cliff, yes that offends my sensibilities

Socially conservative atheists exist. Abusively permissive, denialist, pot smoking libertarians who are not socially conservative can't tolerate their presence though.

1.2 billion years of evolutionary history is so inconvenient.

Our evolved morality is not subjective. Whereas abusive neomarxist postmodernism is.

The censoring non-conservative admins of a 'Conservative Atheists' group on facebook:

There are alternate groups on facebook with similar names.

https://www.facebook.com/search/str/conservative%2Batheists/keywords_groups

Thus my own banning has not blocked me completely on there. But it's worth noting that fiscal conservatives who see themselves as 'quintisentially' conservative, really aren't.

A true conservative would be both socially and fiscally conservative.

Conserve, what's good about 1.2 billion years of evolved human history. The valuing of family. The valuing of life. Yes the valuing of inherent reproduction. And yes, devaluing abusive non-reproductive outliers. Working to help people live happy lives, through education and advocacy. Advocacy for the valuing of highly useful and good evolved human values.

Related thoughts:

'Lives and families are destroyed by Tranny and Gay acceptance and promotion - LGBT abusive outliers are not equal'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/07/lives-and-families-are-destroyed-by.html

'Where does social conservatism come from? From human nature.'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/11/where-does-social-conservatism-come.html

The Batons of Christopher Hitchens; The natural underpinnings of social conservatism; Jordan Peterson's work

Recently I engaged in a debate with a muckety muck in the Church of Sam Harris regarding Jordan Peterson. The man is highly upset at my 'slander' regarding Harris.

Some people fancy themselves as the quintessential sons-of-Christopher-Hitchens. They have their profile photos permanently set as a cartoon of a cigarette smoking Hitch, and they never change that photo to something else, ever.

From my perspective the batons of Hitch have passed to several people, and several of those people are on the current right-side of the political spectrum, much the chagrin of fervent Church of Harris believers.

Partial list of people who've been the recipients of a Hitchian baton: Andrew Breitbart, Douglas Murray, Mark Steyn, Gad Saad, and even Dinesh D'Souza.

List of people who're traitors to the legacy of Hitch: Sam Harris; Church of Sam Harris priests who get upset at 'slander' against Harris; and all atheists who voted for Her.

One person interviewed by Saad is Jordan Peterson. Peterson recently engaged in a discussion with Harris, and Harris could not wrap his brain around what Peterson was saying. Understandable for more reasons than one.

Peterson speaks valuably against social constructivism and Marxism (as does Saad). He also speaks valuably regarding the nuclear bomb level impact of artificial birth control upon the human animal. And even before I heard of Peterson, I wrote the exact same type of thing.

https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2016/02/lies-present-in-conservative-religion.html

Regarding Peterson's religiospeak, it's important (and mostly required) to interpret the totality of it within an enlightened naturalistic framework.

Dennett's 'dangerous' idea regarding religion being natural cuts several ways. One way it cuts is that fully evolved human moral codes are couched within religious contexts. Another is that every single syllable emitted from the vocal orifice of Jordan Peterson needs to be interpreted within context.

A highly valuable project: more accurately (and without leftist SJW prejudice) describing the inherent, evolved, and high value to enlightened social conservatism, and naturalistically articulate evolutionary psychology.

Peterson approaches such a merging more than Gad Saad, in his own way Petersonian way.

Thus a great thanks to Peterson for opposing Marxism and social constructivism, on campus and off. And thanks to him for revolutionarily speaking the truth regarding one specific concern of social conservatives (widely available artificial birth control).

Valuable and fully natural scientific work.

-----------

The Harrisian (Sam Harris and his aficionados) brain has problems grasping many things. For example:

1.) That free will fully exists within the human animal, in a natural, reasonably adequate, and compatiblist sense. Dennett is right. Harris is a myopic hack on this front.

2.) That consciousness is not an ineffable humming glow.

3.) That male circumcision is highly abhorrent.

4.) That there was high utilitarian value to voting for Trump.

5.) That voting for Hillary was a huge betrayal to the legacy of Hitch. The crooked racketeering Team Rape versus a pro-American and thus pro-Enlightenment good-hearted businessman who used His Own Money to block the raping racketeering Clintons.

Also Harris engaged in malpractice regarding his psychological diagnosis of Trump, one which was petty, shallow, moronic, analy retentive, boring, stupid, and obtuse - and fully on par with most Harrisian projects and pronouncements.

So thanks to Peterson, Gad Saad, and others.

Saad is a social liberal. Peterson seems to be a moderate. When more scientists get some balls and brain cells, and finally see value to fully evolved social conservatism, then there'll be progress. But until then, the pro-eugenics pro-death nihilistic hacks aren't scientists but rather they're just worse than worthless nihilists.

At least Saad is willing to entertain conservative ideas without becoming an utter nutter. And Peterson is closer to the truth of the evolved situation, in his own Petersonian way.

What evolutionary process is involved when decidedly childfree denialist abusively permissive SJW leftists just want want want to import admittedly also abusive Muslims to breed on their behalf?

The SJW children of let-it-all-hang-out 60s hippies love forcibly-hijabbed women and abusive Islamic Puritanism and Islamic large families.

Whodatthunkit.

Yes Islam warps natural evolved processes in highly wrong headed ways.

A better course would be for children of the Enlightenment to wake up, reject baby killing and artificial birth control, and breed themselves rather than to import rapey barbarian savages to breed on their behalf.

In any case Harrisian logic is rather like a weak cog in a half baked pie, to mix a metaphor. Krausian logic isn't any better by the way.

------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpts from an exchange with a Church of Harris priest (COHP) on all the above:

"Peterson's ideas are only valuable inasmuch as one is willing to take his epistemologically foolhardy presuppositions for granted."

My response:

Hardly. No more than one must assume the god believer does everything in his life >because< his god is a 100% actual fact, as opposed to a perceived fact - one which exists within the required/knowledge support structure of the meme-gene system in which he exists.

Why do people do the things they do? A combination of biology, biological history, genes and memes, which all inseparably play off each other.

Biology, evolution, life, and ideas which are rooted in various aspects of being alive, and a processing machine which can (by happenstance and not) be used for other purposes also. But even those other purposes tie into the fundamentals of existence.

For example the mathematician and physicist usually want humanity to survive, and they can be driven to use their realms of knowledge for fully biological-imperative type purposes.

How does the world work, and thus by extension how do humans work.

Peterson is concerned about what happens when humans toss the baby of morality with the bath water of religion.

Since religion is a fully natural memetic-encasement of evolved morality, it's reasonable to add 'evolved' as a preface word to the terms 'religion' and 'morality.'

COHP: "Again, his epistemology is predicated on an exceptionally precarious conceptual foundation"

Response:

It's a fundamental fallacy and also myopic to assume that expressed-views are only valid if the person expressing them can articulately state a reasonable fully-scoped foundation for those views.

Peterson uses religiospeak which must be taken within a naturalistic context. There's no other context which is reasonable. And a lack of understanding on the part of the naturalistic evaluator can lead to fundamentally flawed conclusions.

Aside from the terms he uses, Peterson has concerns about the state of humanity, concerns which do directly relate to Dennett's dangerous idea regarding religion being natural, Peterson's concerns are highly relevant, telling, and apparently factual.

The baby of evolved human morality tossed with the bath water of evolved and fully natural mysticism.

There's big costs and impacts.

COHP: "His entire philosophy collapses beneath the weight of its own incoherence."

Response:

He seems pretty coherent to me. His concerns are highly valid and valuable to make note of.

The memetic bathtub he's in is interesting and nuanced, and must and can only be understood within an enlightened naturalistic context.

COHP: "an epistemology anchored to an ontological fact is conceptually unsustainable."

Response:

How does the world work.

How do humans work.

What is human nature.

Why do humans do what they do.

Why are we here.

How can we survive.

The noob atheist, the rebellious leftist and weed smoking libertarian, all assume that without (the concept of) a god everything is permitted. Such people, and their abusively permissive and denialist meme sets, simply do not understand how the world and humans work.

COHP: "It's based on essentially circular logic"

Response:
You're stuck in the weeds of philosophical word games and forced paths which fully fail to understand what's going on, with Peterson and with religious believers in general.

Idea sets which are inadequately contextualized need not be 100% self consistent nor 100% 'reasonable' to be 'valid.' 'Valid' meaning having naturalistic causes, and meme sets which can result in reasonable naturalistically-rephrased ideas and natural material useful facts.

As for circularity, humans are evolved animals, and many aspects of human nature circle back to this fact and the general facts of how the human animal works.

COHP: "any truth claim he makes atop that foundation instantly fails."

Response:

...only for those who lack a fully contextualized and enlightened materialistic understanding of what's going on.

COHP: "It's important that one's conception of truth can at least sustain itself."

Response:

Religions do sustain themselves via and for natural reasons.

COHP: "Peterson's truth eats its own tail in a million different ways."

Response:

Not that I've seen. And the truths within religions need to, and can only be, properly understood within natural contexts.

COHP: "If his definition of truth ultimately leads to the extinction of the human race..."

Response:

He wants us to survive, and rightly so.

COHP: "...does that mean that it was never true?"

Response:

Properly contextualized truth, yes.

COHP: "It makes absolutely no sense."

Response:

He makes sense to me.

Marxism: Peterson observed highly negative impacts. He doesn't like what he saw. He doesn't want a repeat.

One of Peterson's points is that rejecting traditional religion can lead to errors in thinking, and to incredibly high levels of abusiveness, denialisms, and moronity, as was and is the case with Marxism. The utter stupidity continues on campus today.

COHP: "The soviet union"

Response:

...was an anti-human-nature identitarian leftist utopian totalitarian evil corrosive human spirit destroying dead-end endeavor. Peterson knows this.

COHP: "It was the result of disillusionment in the church..."

Response:

...which led to something far worse. And the Soviet Union was a de facto religion, as is Marxism.

Visit most any atheist (or humanist or Unitarian Universalist) group in America.

State to them that you enjoy Duck Dynasty, and that you're a pro-life anti-gay-"marriage" atheist. See how long it takes for them to boot you: faster than a Mormon Bishop. A de facto religion with dogma, doctrines, heresy trials, and excommunication.

COHP: "Most Nazis were devout Christians."

Response:

Fascism is a left spectrum endeavor. National Socialism.

There is identitarianism in both Marxism and fascism. Group rights and group blames. Utopianism. De facto eugenics. Racism. Dogmas. Doctrines. Heresy trials.

Yes I see that Communism/Marxism and fascism all have corrosive tribalistic elements and religious ones too. Peterson rightly points out negative impacts.

COHP: "You've COMPLETELY misconstrued Dennett..."

Response:

Many hours listening to Dennett.

COHP: "Sam's positions."

Response:

Ditto.

Harris is a myopic hack.

https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/sam%20harris

...on many fronts.

No Hitch-honoring Hitch-appreciator could or ever would vote for a Clinton.

The micro differentiations between spandrels and other effects are weedy sticky mud, regarding arguing about differences between what's one and what another. False choices based on myopathy. Why? Because here's the situation as previously noted:

Religion is a natural phenomenon which couches evolved traits.

There's synergies between memes and genes.

Not all religions are equal regarding positive and negative impacts.

Harrisian woo (Chamlers and Harris):

https://youtu.be/qi2ok47fFcY

https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-woo-of-sam-harris-consciousness.html

Harris didn't learn from:

Dennett.
Hitchens.
Gad Saad.
Jordan Peterson.
Me, whom he censored.

------------------------------------------------------------ end of quote of direct exchange

Am I a quintessential 'son of Hitch?' Hitch isn't more important than my family & I don't claim he was correct on all issues. During his tenure I was partially swayed to the pro-Iraq-war side, but now I'm much more skeptical regarding the value of it. Moron Bush and even-worse moron Obama screwed up the place big time.

Time for Trumpian pragmatism now. But Hitch did free many brains from dogma, especially from leftist dogma.