Recoverying from cults on the right and the left

Ok regarding meme sets called cults, I've been a member of more than one:

1st: The Mormon meme set. Still a cult, with a slow trajectory toward being less cult like. Founded by two polygamists who had a.) underage wives (this is called: pedophilia & child rape), and b.) wives who were still married to other men (this is called: adultery).

The Mo Church dumped polygamy, which was good, but splinter groups who also worship Joseph Smith continue the practice. I've toured first hand polygamous cities in & near Utah. And we've been bowling next to a gaggle of polygamous women & a few of their kids. I also see them at grocery stores near me on occasion. Splinter group Mormons.

In more recent years the Mo Church decided to micro-manage the sex lives of their members. In 1982 Prophet of God Spencer Kimball issued a directive stating that oral sex was not approved of god. Think about the content and procedure of such a letter going out to Mormon members. Consider very carfully the impact on the lives of regular people of such a directive.

Next Spencer Kimball told the youth of the church that masturbation could easily turn them into homosexuals. He also stated that >mandatory< interviews regarding masturbation were >required< with Mormon bishops. Such interviews were also common at the Mormon Missionary Training Center.

Consider very carefully the impact on people's lives of such misinformation & abuse.

Now, Kimball's lying abusive book Miracle of Forgiveness (oxymoron title) was recently removed from the Mo church distribution centers, after being present there in multiple languages. This happened with the past 5 years or so. But before about 5 years ago, this crap book was again in multiple languages, and given to young people & adults as required reading: https://archive.org/stream/MiracleOfForgiveness/MoF_djvu.txt

So, the dumping of Miracle of Forgiveness from the Mo Church distribution centers (the stores members go to buy religious study materials directly from the church), well that's a move in the non-cult direction.

But, and this is a huge point, the interrogations of young people & adults regarding sexual matters continues. Thus, still a cult.

If you question the leaders you are blocked from access to the temples of the church, and you might be put in trial and booted from the church. Thus, still a cult.

Some members will still threaten you personally if you publicly question church teachings and church leadership. Thus, still a cult.

There is still incredibly strong social pressure to >never< question what the top leaders say. Thus, still a cult.

2nd: The cult of cultural leftism, which I much later leaned results from cultural neomarxist postmodernism. The cultural left denies science & reason & evidence & human nature every day & all the time.

Was Margaret Sanger a eugenicist? Yes she was.

Do children absolutely require, for their own well being, a mother AND a father? Yes, for concrete and proven evolutionary reasons.

Does the birth control pill alter, in bad and dangerous ways, the mental health and mate preferences of human females? Yes.

Should a mother, ideally and if at all possible, stay home with her children for as long as possible, for the best well being of the children? Yes.

Are women paid less than men for equal work? No.

Is there systemic racism in America? No, and there's hasn't been any such for many years now.

Are humans a gender binary species? Yes.

Is capitalism & full free speech the best ways for humans to thrive best? Yes.

Did Karl Marx fundamentally misunderstand human nature? Yes. Do all socialist / communist / Marxist systems eventually fail? Yes. Are they human spirit destroying Ponzi schemes? Yes.

Is monogamy the best way for humans to mate & have kids, a system which is best both for female & male & children well being? Yes.

Do religions couch evolved morality & evolved traits? Yes.

What are the leftist answers to all the above? Pretty much exactly the opposite of what the facts & our own evolved natures show. Thus on point after point, the cultural left, is a fraking cult.

Masturbation doesn't make you a homosexual as was claimed by Spencer Kimball, although telling kids it easily can or will does unfortunately generate many ultra-leftist angry reactionaries who end up in the other-cult known as Stonewall & "Pride." But, when you're of dating age and especially when above the age of 21, directing your sexual energies toward inherent reproduction is a strategy for success.

I spent many years as an ultra-leftist reactionary. A ping pong game from ultra-right to ultra-left. From one cult to another.

A few of my nephews & nieces (and an uncle) weren't unscathed from the abuses of the ultra-left. And frankly those who were hobbled (& killed) were victims of BOTH the ultra-right AND the ultra-left. A reactionary pingpong game.

Yes people deserve to know the truth. Are you being held back by entrenched dogma & doctrines? A dogma is a premise which cannot be questioned by definition.

Yes we can question whether cultural neomarxist postmodernism is a cult and comprises a set of lies or not. Yes we can question human nature. We can question whether scientific propositions are true or not.

Joseph Smith was a charlatan, but there's a great deal of charlatanry going on on the cultural left also, charlatanry with far wider abusive scope than the influence of the itty bitty religion of Mormonism.

And the worst of these is Islam: Foolish bleeding hearts helped birth Islamic State

Foolish naivety leads bleeding hearts to venture into Syria, while other naive leftist bleeding hearts want out of Iraq.

When these two leftie forces come together, a "perfect jihadist synergistic storm" called Islamic State is born, and it happily & easily grinds up the naive bleeding hearts which helped birth it.

US Islamic State hostage Kayla Mueller confirmed dead
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31375445

I do not doubt that the work of the woman noted in the news story was "noble" in it's own way, but it was also very foolish.

Islamic State (aka Islam) doesn't care about how much you care for others. You are kafir (a non-believer / apostate) to them, and that's it.

The left helped birth Islamic State, out of foolish naivety, and a desire to just "get out" "get out" of Iraq.

The response of the left to 9/11 was to embrace the religion of the attackers, and to invite humans whose brains are tied down by the cult of Islam into our borders en masse. Then when the cult members come to America and Europe, the left does *nothing* to help free these humans from the cult they belong to. Instead they set up legal protections to limit free speech & free thought which might rock the Islamic boat.

Jim Jones
David Koresh
L. Ron Hubbard
Joseph Smith
Mohamed

Cult leaders all. And the worst of these is Mohamed who birthed Islam. More destructive & dangerous. More destructive to the human spirit.

Advice for TBMs on porn: Why society accepts pornography but not littering?

For the true believing Mormon (TBM):

Why society accepts pornography but not littering?

1. Free speech beatch. This is fucking America. Get used to it!

2. Because you're a dumbshit.

3. Because you have a dick or clitty.

4. You're complaining about porn? WTF! Your founding prophet slept with a 14 year old and with the wives of other men. Then the second prophet with a 15 year old, and with the wives of other men. Then your god gets to have real sex with Mary the mother of Jesus. Hey, sounds like fuckin' porn to me. Hey, how many orgasms does it take in a million years to equal 100 billion spirit babies? 11 orgasms per hour. All sounds like fuckin' porn to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/we-were-all-just-sperm-in-gods-balls.html
http://atheism.about.com/od/mormomism/a/Mormon-Jesus-Born-Sex.htm
http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon385.htm
http://www.bible.ca/mor-god-had-sex-with-mary.htm
http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/HowManyPeopleHaveEverLivedonEarth.aspx

5. What about the plight of women in the Mormon heaven? Do they EVER get a rest from Elohim's dick?

6. Have you read the fucking Bible?
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/sex/long.html

7. Do your morals come from the fucking Bible?
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Here's the bottom line, my TBM beatches:

A. Yes highly commercialized porn is of less value.

B. Yes children should be protected from porn.

C. Porn has it's uses, even in marriage. Suggest searching out less commercial less-professional more down-home types. It's quite true that whores & pimps can & do inappropriately make money of off this key built in human trait. On the other hand, in the era of web 2.0 and so on, more real down to Earth "porn" can be found with appropriate research. Maybe you don't need to find any. But on occasion it can be useful, as an educational tool, and to help get things "going" in your marriage.

----

The sexual act is not inherently evil, nor should it be inherently censored. It's life. It's how life is created. Like it or not (you brainwashed TBM's usually HATE it), that's just the way it is.

TAKE YOUR G'S OFF FOR SEX, MY TBM FRIENDS!

Lighten up about porn. It's a free country & a largely free world. You don't like it? Fuckin' tough. Your prophet did FAR WORSE to REAL LIVE CHILDREN!!!

Also, having your children grilled about masturbation IS child abuse! How about that Mr. & Mrs. TBM!

LDS.ORG discover the perversity of Mormonism:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html

Miracle of Forgiveness - still widely promoted today, and translated into several other languages at the mobot distribution centers:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-Forgiveness-Spencer-Kimball/product-reviews/0884941922/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

My own history:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm#history

Suicide from the Mormon stance on masturbation:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080620075156/http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml

What about micro-management regarding oral sex? How abusive!
http://stakepresident.blogspot.com/2011/05/oral-abstinence-key-to-happy-fulfilling.html

What a bunch of hypocritical fucks - Mormons are on this issue.

Please transmit this message to your TBM associates. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Jonathan
...former Mormon missionary, Sunday school president, temple worker, and fucking long time chump - also a human who thankfully finally wised up.

Please rewrite the above in "nice" language for your TBM friends. Thank you.

Questions for Mormon Missionaries - God, Sex, and honesty | 16 questions for Mormon Missionaries

Video link: http://youtu.be/Tly3T_dc1Vk

Questions for Mormon Missionaries - God, Sex, and honesty | 16 questions for Mormon Missionaries

The Mormon missionaries are knocking at your door.

Be nice to them. Two years of strict abstinence from dating & masturbation. Have pity on these poor naive fools / chumps. I was one, and so I can speak from first hand experience.

Bring them in. Give them some milk and cookies. And then, kindly present to them the following very poignant questions, in all seriousness, and humility, and before the Mormon God & his holy representatives, we ask:

1. Did Joseph Smith enjoy having sex with a 14 year old and with the wives of other men?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Mar_Kimball

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,464173,00.html
"...EW What do you think the reaction will be from the Mormon Church?
JK They've already basically let it be known that good Mormons should not read this book. And I think they will be very uncomfortable with the history; they will not like the fact that I point out that Joseph Smith told 14-year-old girls ''God says you should marry me, if you don't...'' His way of getting laid doesn't reflect well on him..."

"...I am especially disappointed that they feel such an urgent need to attack writers, like me, who present balanced, carefully researched accounts of Mormon history that happen to diverge from the official, highly expurgated church version..."

http://www.randomhouse.com/features/krakauer/response.html

Horn Dog Joseph's direct activities to seduce young girls:
http://books.google.com/books?id=0DQaTU7Opq0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=under+the+banner+of+heaven&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eBUiU9X_CcnnkAeRpoFA&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=helen%20kimball&f=false
...check out page 122

2. How was the sex between the Mormon God & Mary the Mother of Jesus? When the Mormon God had sex with Mary the Mother of Jesus, did he go down on her? Did he give her head? Did the Mormon God have an orgasm, and did he help Mary have one too? Did they leave their clothes on?

References:
What was it like, when God had sex with Mary?
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/what-was-it-like-when-god-had-sex-with.html

and "... Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily offspring; that is to say, Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh, and which body died on the cross and was afterward taken up by the process of resurrection, and is now the immortalized tabernacle of the eternal spirit of our Lord and Savior. No extended explanation of the title “Son of God” as applied to Jesus Christ appears necessary..." from https://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/04/the-father-and-the-son?lang=eng

Mormonism and oral sex:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html

In 1982, the Mormon God speaks about oral sex through his prophets, seers, and revelators:
Page 1: http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
page 2: http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet,_seer,_and_revelator

A relevant parody of the situation: http://stakepresident.blogspot.com/2011/05/oral-abstinence-key-to-happy-fulfilling.html

3. Was it moral for the Mormon God to have sex with the wife of another man (eg: with Mary)?

4. Was it moral for Brigham Young to have sex with a 15 year old and with the wives of other men?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives

5. How come the more religious a person is the more of an asshole they tend to be?

6. Are intrusive interviews regarding masturbation of 12 year old children conducted by strange men AKA Mormon Bishops a good thing, or a bad & abusive thing?

http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_markepeterson.html

And more on masturbation (question 6 & 8 related):

I remember receiving "A Guide to Self-Control" while on my Mormon mission in Alaska.

"...When the temptation to masturbate is strong, yell STOP to those thoughts as loudly as you can in your mind..." Yes, I tried that. Didn't work though. And this is of course an abusive request to make of anyone, especially an 11-21 year old.

Boyd Packer's related evil pamphlet given to Mormon children:
To Young Men Only (PDF)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0ZmSLnUooZubEhUOF9OQkdKUk0/view?usp=sharing

7. Where is the Lamaite DNA? Why didn't Joseph Smith know about DNA? Wasn't he supposed to be hooked into the mind of the Mormon God? What about the basic denial of science in the totality of Mormon scripture?

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/09/hey-mormon-missionaries-where-is.html

http://nowscape.com/mormon/abraham/abraham.htm

8. When you're in the Mormon Church and you have sex with your wife, are you supposed to leave your garments on or have them off?

Relevant discussion:

http://www.exmormonforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2266

http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_markepeterson.html#pub_-1343670037

9. How is a woman in Mormonism supposed to have an orgasm without oral sex? See references under question 2.

10. What is the "new name" you received in the Mormon Temple?

http://www.fullerconsideration.com/templenameoracle.php

11. If we say "Health in the navel, marrow in the bones, strength in the loins and sinews. Power in the Priesthood be upon me, and upon my posterity through all generations of time, and throughout all eternity," will we really get into the Mormon Heaven? And do we really want to go there? No oral sex? NO masturbation? A bunch of anally retentive assholes around. And we have to kiss the rear and of a hostile alien god just to get there? Doesn't sound like fun to me - going to the Mormon Heaven? What do you think?

related links:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/kolob_tract.htm
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html

S.L. Temple "live" version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8sbYtFOnxk

Temple film shown in other Mormon temples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19cHztniXRE

The campy stilted saccharin Mormon view of heaven - in "Man's Search for Happiness:"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5oS2pZlvgI

12. You're so eager. But young people can also be nieve. Young and dumb. Don't you think you're believe deceived by old fucking farts, like Spencer Kimball, Boyd Packer, and by long dead cult founders like Joseph Smith & Brigham Young.

13. Show the missionaries the film "Jesus Camp" and get their response.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp

14. When you get finished on your mission do you plan to attend BYU Idaho, and while there do you plan to complain about your roommates if they happen to have women staying over at night? If the answer is yes, then that means you're still an asshole. Free yourself, young, dumb, naive, Mormon missionary. Don't be a chump or a tool of old farts who just want 10% of your gross income.

15. What about the links between Mormonism and Masonry?

Why are the following photo collections related?
Salt Lake masonic temple images: http://goo.gl/hgIbF5

Mormon Salt Lake temple images: http://goo.gl/lOki78

And an additional question not mentioned in my view:

16. Watch the film "Plan 10 From Outer Space" with the missionaries and get their response.
http://www.echocave.net/plan_10_from_outer_space.html

IMG 8035 - 3-13-2014 7:42am

Jesus wants me for an asshole: the song of LDS missionaries, bishops, and prophets

Parody of the song: Jesus wants me for a sunbeam
reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27ll_Be_a_Sunbeam

New version: Jesus wants me for an asshole.

A special version of the song which more accurately describes life in the Mormon Church, and especially regarding the leaders of Mormonism past & present. Mention is also made of Mormon leaders Spencer Kimball, Boyd Packer, and others. Plus also of my special time spent in Alaska on a Mormon mission.

And also commentary about Ukraine.

More info:

On past Mormon prophet Spencer Kimball and current Mormon apostle Boyd Packer:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html

Ron Pugmire, the first Mormon Bishop who introduced me both to masturbation interrogation interviews, and to Spencer Kimball's evil book Miracle of Forgiveness.
http://www.icse.utah.edu/person72

I remember asking Ron if women ever masturbate, as a naive ~12 year old. I think he said they did, but less than men. Sex education, straight from the Mormon Church. Thanks Joseph Smith!

People accurately describing the evil of Spencer Kimball's book:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-Forgiveness-Spencer-Kimball/product-reviews/0884944441/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

Wives of Joseph Smith. One 14 year old, plus women still legally married to other men:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives

Wives of Brigham Young. One 15 year old, plus women still legally married to other men:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives

Related song about the homeworld of the Mormon God, where there's no oral sex, masturbation, nor anyone named Rex or Nate.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html

Related song about how we were all just sperm in God's balls:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/we-were-all-just-sperm-in-gods-balls.html

Ukraine couple moving from Crimea to Kiev:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gpbv8G9jtI

IMG 7982 - 3-11-2014 8:35am

Mormon meeting house visit - 2-17-2013

My wife & son & I attended part of the Mormon meeting this morning. We tried some bread and water, listened to a couple of hymns, and part of a boring wrote-recitation-style talk by some lady. My son's fussiness gave us an excuse to escape early.

We went to the same meeting house where my father's family had Christmas parties when I was young. Last weekend the monk at the Salt Lake Buddhist Temple suggested that we just go back to our first religion. So today I followed his advice & we tried out Mormonism today. The result? Same old boring stuff. Oh, and the sound was up too loud in the place. On the way out we saw pictures of the leaders. As we passed by Spencer Kimball's photo we made note of his abhorrence for certain, if not most, expressions of sexuality.
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml
http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-violence-of-buddhism-relativism.html

DNA, the Book of Mormon, and Creationists: blowing smoke in response to science & facts

Ok, so this is turning out to be a long standing issue. Examine the history of science & religion. In the past scientists got locked up for doing science, because their work challenged the contemporary views of the world. And even today, atheists are being sent to prison for speaking their mind.

Galileo was found to be "...vehemently suspect of heresy," and later sentenced to prison. A relevant excerpt from his sentence - but read the whole thing when you get a chance:

We say, pronounce, sentence, and declare that you, the above-mentioned Galileo, because of the things deduced in the trial and confessed by you as above, have rendered yourself according to this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, namely of having held and believed a doctine which is false and contrary to the divine and Holy Scripture: that the sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west, and the earth moves and is not the center of the world, and that one may hold and defend as probable an opinion after it has been declared and defined contrary to Holy Scripture.  Consequently you have incurred all the censures and penalties imposed and promulgated by the sacred canons and all particular and general laws against such delinquents.  We are willing to absolve you from them provided that first, with a sincere heart and unfeigned faith, in front of us you abjure, curse, and detest the above-mentioned errors and heresies, and every other error and heresy contrary to the Catholic and Apostolic Church, in the manner and form we will prescribe to you.
    Furthermore, so that this serious and pernicious error and transgression of yours does not remain completely unpunished, and so that you will be more cautious in the future and an example for others to abstain from similar crimes, we order that the book Dialogue by Galileo Galilei be prohibited by public edict.
    We condemn you to formal imprisonment in this Holy Office at our pleasure.  As a salutary penance we impose on you to recite the seven penitential Psalms once a week for the next three years.  And we reserve the authority to moderate, change, or condone wholly or in part the above-mentioned penalties and penances. 

And then later we have the Scopes Trial, where teaching evolution was illegal in Tennessee. 

No conflict between science & religion? That's what the Templeton Foundation would have us believe.

It almost goes without saying that creation "science" (which is not a science) is a direct response from religionists who see science as a threat.

The approach of the creationist religionists is as follows:

We don't like the answers science gives, they disprove our literalist interpretation of scripture. Therefore we shall simply redefine what science is and what science means, and we'll blow as much smoke as possible and muddy the waters with half and partial truths regarding what the true state of scientific discovery is.

This is precisely the approach taken by the "creation scientists:" blow smoke, change definitions, and lie when you have to.

And, the exact same approach is taken by the Mormon Church in the following articles, as they pathetically attempt to respond to DNA evidence refuting key claims in their founding religious documents on the origins of the American Indians. Check out:

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/review/?vol=15&num=2&id=507
and more fluff & articles from similar people:
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/dna-and-the-book-of-mormon

Appropriate responses to smoke from the Mormon Church on the issue of DNA & the Book of Mormon:

My original responses:

Mormon Doctrine: Indians are Lamanites, period, full stop.
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/lamaniteindianref.html

Where is the Lamanite DNA?
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/dna_additional.htm

A book on the subject by Simon Southerton.
http://www.amazon.com/Losing-Lost-Tribe-Native-Americans/dp/1560851813

More info:

A talk by Dr. Southerton to at an Exmormon Foundation conference:
http://exmormonfoundation.org/audio2006.html
...look under the text on that page that says
"Simon Southerton, Ph.D.: 'Losing a Lost Race: From Radishes to DNA and Outer Darkness'"

Mormon scriptures that directly tie American Indians with Israel:

The Book of Mormon - translated by Joseph Smith from gold plates:

    2 Nephi 26:19
    19 And it shall come to pass, that those who have dwindled in unbelief shall be smitten by the hand of the Gentiles.

    Enos 1:16
    And I had faith, and I did cry unto God that he would preserve the records; and he covenanted with me that he would bring them forth unto the Lamanites in his own due time.

Doctrine & Covenants - where the Mormon God speaks directly to Joseph Smith:

    D&C 3:18
    18 And this testimony shall come to the knowledge of the Lamanites, and the Lemuelites, and the Ishmaelites, who dwindled in unbelief because of the iniquity of their fathers, whom the Lord has suffered to destroy their brethren the Nephites, because of their iniquities and their abominations.

    D&C 3:19
    19 And for this very purpose are these plates preserved, which contain these records---that the promises of the Lord might be fulfilled, which he made to his people;

    D&C 3:20
    20 And that the Lamanites might come to the knowledge of their fathers, and that they might know the promises of the Lord, and that they may believe the gospel and rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ, and be glorified through faith in his name, and that through their repentance they might be saved. Amen.

    D&C 19:27
    27 Which is my word to the Gentile, that soon it may go to the Jew, of whom the Lamanites are a remnant, that they may believe the gospel, and look not for a Messiah to come who has already come.

    D&C 28:8
    8 And now, behold, I say unto you that you shall go unto the Lamanites and preach my gospel unto them; and inasmuch as they receive thy teachings thou shalt cause my church to be established among them; and thou shalt have revelations, but write them not by way of commandment.

    D&C 32:2
    2 And that which I have appointed unto him is that he shall go with my servants, Oliver Cowdery and Peter Whitmer, Jun., into the wilderness among the Lamanites.

    D&C 54:8
    8 And thus you shall take your journey into the regions westward, unto the land of Missouri, unto the borders of the Lamanites.

    D&C Section 57 Introduction - 1986 Edition

    Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, in Zion, Jackson County, Missouri, July 20, 1831. HC 1: 189-190. In compliance with the Lord's command (Section 52), the elders had journeyed from Kirtland to Missouri with many varied experiences and some opposition. In contemplating the state of the Lamanites and the lack of civilization, refinement, and religion among the people generally, the Prophet exclaimed in yearning prayer: "When will the wilderness blossom as the rose? When will Zion be built up in her glory, and where will they Temple stand, unto which all nations shall come in the last days?" Subsequently he received this revelation.

    D&C 57:4
    4 Wherefore, it is wisdom that the land should be purchased by the saints, and also every tract lying westward, even into the line running directly between Jew and Gentile.

    [Footnote on the bottom of page 103 of the 1986 D&C:]
    4b IE by metonymy "Jew" here refers to the Lamanites, and "Gentile" to the white settlers.

...and more direct links are at
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/lamaniteindianref.html

But notice, in the Doctrine & Covenants sections referenced above, we have The Mormon God, Elohim, speaking directly to Joseph Smith, right? Hey, Mormon Church, and FARMS, can you get around that?

The Mormon Brain Software, which was running in my own brain for several years, was a set of memes that operated rather like a virus or a biological system that put up defenses.

The Devils of Mormonism Advocacy Skepticism
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/Mormon_devil.htm

...and they do in all religions. If you have a doubt, that's from Satan. So, this is the last resort of all religionists. A newer tactic is to try to redefine what science means and what science is. That's the tactic of creation "scientists" and Templeton Chumps alike. And another longer standing tactic is to blow smoke. And then, if all else fails, just threaten people with the fear that any doubt comes to them via an evil spirit. How perverse, but it's par for the course in cult-type religions.

How can we move forward, and why?

Here's a relevant talk I gave at my own mothers funeral:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2010/12/funeral-talk-that-i-gave-in-february.html

The wackiness of Mormonism has led people to become atheists.

Here's one key example: Julia Sweeney...

and

Related blog post:

Museum of Ancient Life visit - February 2nd, 2013
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/museum-of-ancient-life-visit-february.html

Why are exmormons and atheists so angry? Because they have damn good reasons to be.

Apparently some people really do wonder:

Why are ex-mormons & atheists so angry?

Examples regarding those who leave Mormonism, which some may highlight:

My own pages:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm#history

A video about launching a mission to the Mormon god's homeworld:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12puVX3vtrY

A support group which has annual conferences in Salt Lake:
http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/

One of the forums where exmormons hang out:
http://exmormon.org/phorum/list.php?2
an additional forum: http://www.postmormon.org/

Additional good sites - about the kooky crazy nature of Mormonism. Can you detect some anger? Yes. It's refreshing & helpful...
http://www.salamandersociety.com/
http://nowscape.com/mormon/

Even some some atheists wonder about the anger of exmormons & fellow atheists.

Why? Why? Why are we so angry?

Because we have damn good reasons to be. Check out the links above. Read what people actually say.

All that baggage. Why don't we just "get over it?" We do live our lives and we move forward. But we never completely "move on." Why? Because the petrified penis of Mormonism still stands tall over Salt Lake. Because the "Miracle of Forgiveness" is still sold in the Mormon Church distribution centers. Because asshole Boyd Packer is still spewing human spirit destroying filth. Because the Mormon Church continues to oppress people. Because we're upset at being lied to. Because some of our families disowned us. Because some of our fellows committed suicide because of the pain.

Some people who had a fluffy exit from Mormonism, or who were only ever liberal religionists or who have always been non-religious, these people often have no idea what life was like in Mormonism or other conservative cults.

Why don't we just "get over it?" Ask us in a more respectful tone & maybe we'll tell you.

I will not disparage people for seeking social support after they leave a cult. You shouldn't either.
 
Why is it such a mystery to some why these people have "so much religious baggage?" Because they do. And maybe they need some help learning how to be more free from the cult they spent many years inside.

Atheist groups serve as a social support for people who leave various religions. People with a "lot of religious baggage" may well show up to such meetings, and if that offends you, too bad. It's par for the course at such meetings. Maybe those people need your help.

Related video commentary added January 19, 2013:

Related book:
Why Are You Atheists So Angry? 99 Things That Piss Off the Godless
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007MCMKV6

Related site & a good quote:
http://new.exchristian.net/2011/02/why-are-atheists-so-angry.html
"...Atheists are fully justified in their anger, and that anger may be the last, best hope for our species surviving our own ignorance and gullibility. If religious forces ever manage to quell our anger, then they will have won the battle . . . and lost the world..."

even the Romans did it...

even Romans did it...

as from a fresco in the public baths at Pompeii
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotic_art_in_Pompeii_and_Herculaneum

Compare & contrast with what you may have been told.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170415164512/http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

...The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice.  If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it...

Related blog, which is apparently a parody:
https://stakepresident.blogspot.com/2011/05/oral-abstinence-key-to-happy-fulfilling.html

And a relevant quote from the comments section of linked to blog:

President, I have a very embarrassing yet pertinent question I feel I must raise. As a daughter of Zion, I have always kept myself pure unto the Lord, which has led to some difficulties in the marital bed. My dear husband has discovered the key to unlocking my glorious God-given pleasure center is through his own oral skills. In fact, I cannot achieve a certain high point without such activity. If we follow our Lord's annointed's advice, I fear I shall never achieve sexual satisfaction again. What is more important do you think? Perhaps continue this practice and then repent once we are old and don't care about sex any more? Oh help me President, I am so torn!! 

As for the Pompeii bath house art shown above, I've found that there's apparently other humans with similarly healthy exuberance also.

Fertility festivals found:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanamara_Matsuri

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C5%8Dnen_Matsuri

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCIjjvl1JQE


Additional:
https://www.google.com/search?q=fertility+festivals&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1280&bih=839

And on my own older website:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/art.htm#Pompeii

Orgazmo film, Mormonism, and Sex

We watched Orgazmo during the past few days & enjoyed it very much.

Here's the film on youtube:

and more info about the film:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgazmo

Trey Parker has apparently had a fascination with Mormon culture, although as an outsider he doesn't quite understand everything. For example his portrayal of a Mormon family in the South Park episode All About Mormons he portrays a Mormon family as being more happy than other families, and that a kid in that family didn't really care about the wacky stuff in this religion. But his portrayal of what life is really like in Mormon families is not quite accurate. There's also a lot of pain, stress, and guilt. Also in Utah there's a great deal of anti-depressant use. Here's the video of the episode:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s07e12-all-about-mormons
and more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_About_Mormons

When I first saw Orgazmo several years ago I knew the best thing that could happen would be for all Mormons, especially all old the fart Mormon leaders, to immediately receive the influence of the following device, an orgazmorator.

When they're up there in General Conference giving stuffy nosed I-am-so-important-when-I-speak-in-a-low-voice pompous pious speeches, the best thing that could ever happen would be for such a device to be activated, so that they & all the crowd assembled would be similarly affected.

Related info:
http://www.salamandersociety.com/media/movies/ryans/
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,23229

When Spencer Kimball hyperventilated and dreamed of necking, petting, heavy petting, masturbation, and oral sex, all while he wrote the following documents, I'm sure he would have benefited from such a device.
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml - make special note of this page
http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt

Related video:

Mormonism & oral sex - Hi, I'm a Mormon, or I was one for 26 years.

 
Related posts from last year:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012_12_01_archive.html

---

Video review added on January 4, 2013:

Review of the film Orgazmo, the Mormon temple film, and candiates for other films to show inside of Mormon temples

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/01/review-of-film-orgazmo-mormon-temple.html

responses to continued mobot (Mormon) fear of sex

Recently I discovered that Miracle of Forgiveness is available at the mobot distribution centers, in several different languages. In each language section they have the BOM, maybe a bible, but always this POS book.
http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt

Very appropriate responses to this book can be found in the form of one star reviews at Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-of-Forgiveness-ebook/product-reviews/B002JQK1VG/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

Since the Mormon Church apparently considers this book to still be highly relevant, then every despicable thing Spencer Kimball & Boyd Packer have done relative to negative portrayals of human sexuality to the youth & adults in the church is relevant also.

On oral sex, Spencer wants to get into your bedroom:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

On masturbation, Spencer & Boyd both want to have a look:
http://www.zionsbest.com/only.html
http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/masturbation.htm

Also Spencer really is concerned about "petting" and "heavy petting." Oh my, that f-ing old fart must really have been hyperventilating when he wrote his Miracle of Forgiveness book. Necking. Petting. Heavy Petting. Tell us more Spencer, about all the things you dream about at night but also hate yourself for thinking of.

But people say he was such a nice man. My father has said this, as did my mother who worked as a nurse in the COB. But the guy was really not so nice after all, after you read all hateful the trash he put out.

Here's a related blog post:
Subverting normal human sexuality: Mormon Church's principal crime
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/subverting-normal-human-sexuality.html

Anyway, with my new wife seeing the pretty white shirts and the pretty buildings, and with my more recent research into the issue of Kimball's trash book being widely promoted in different languages by the mobot church, I decided to put on youtube a reprise of a song I created some time ago:

We were all just sperm in god's balls, a parody of the song Seeds:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/we-were-all-just-sperm-in-gods-balls.html

And, with Joseph Smith's nutty view of heaven in the form of Kolob, and "Kobol" entering the common consciousness in the form of the much less campy newer Battlestar Galatica version, the following newer song came out of a recent morning shower singing session:

Launch a Mission to Kolob...
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html

Joseph gets to have a 14 year old wife & wives who are still married to other men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith's_wives

Brigham gets a 15 year old & wives still married to other men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young's_wives

But, Spencer & Boyd really were/are obsessed with that you and your children are up to at home, at night, in the privacy of your bedrooms. What's up with that? And since Spencer's piece of trash book is *very* relevant for the Mormon Church, as per their having it readily available in many different languages at their distribution centers, (and reportedly since it's required reading for new missionaries) it's clear that they are still very interested in transmitting this human spirit destroying set of memes onto everyone they can.

What is up with the Mormon Church & sex? Their horn dog founder created a religion whose god, apparently, has to have an orgasm every 4.6 minutes to create 107 billion people in one million years.

107 billion people may have lived on Earth so far:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2097038/Are-really-people-alive-today-lived-Earth.html
...and that number doesn't account for "worlds without end."

Perhaps the Mormon God is rather like a giant space termite:
http://www.termite.com/images/queenking.jpg
...that would be more fitting.

Is your god an alien?
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/kolob_tract.htm

...and yet, now they want to very much control even the mere thought of sex in their members. Why? Because once a person actually allows themselves to be open to the possibility of sex being fun, normal, natural, empowering, and liberating, they can more easily find they have no use for the Mormon God or for the supposedly good feelings you get during Mormon Church meetings or from reading the lies of Joseph in the form of the Mormon scriptures.

The Mormon Church tries to hijack people's basic emotions, and to subvert & control & misinterpret them for their own nefarious ends. Some other religions do this also.

In any case I get much better feelings of validation from the love of my wife & new son than I ever got in mostly boring Mormon Church meetings, and from the occasional good feelings they claimed "proved" their church was correct. There's a price to be paid for pretty white shirts and pretty buildings.

If feelings can be used as a form of validation, then that means the much better feelings I've had since leaving indicates that their lies were incorrect.

Jonathan

Current blog: http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/
Legacy website: http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/one/jonathan.html
Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/chinadreams888

We were all just sperm in god's balls - a song parody

We were all just sperm in god's balls - a song parody

We were all just sperm in god's balls - a parody of the song "Seeds."
Other song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61D5AU3SG7A

In the Mormon Church they teach that their god, Elohim, has many wives in heaven. They have endless sex to produce spirit babies for worlds without end.

This song parody is by a former Mormon missionary & temple worker.
More info:

http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/

Launch a Mission to Kolob, and blow the place up!

Three videos expressing an interest in launching a mission to Kolob, the Mormon God's homeworld, and blowing the place up:

December 14, 2012:

December 17 version & addendum:

December 18 reprise:

Let's launch a mission to Kolob baby, and blow the place up. Launch a mission to Kolob honey, before it's to late. There's no oral sex on Kolob, and no one named Rex. There's also no masturbation, and no one named Nate. The Mormon God lives on Kolob, with his many wives. The Mormon Jesus is there too... Hostile aliens all. Joseph Smith is there also, with his 14 year old wife & the wives of other men. Brigham Young is there also, with his 15 year old wife & also wives who are still wives of other men. Spencer Kimball, that fucking old fart, is there also, helping everyone know the evils of oral sex, masturbation, petting, and "heavy petting" (OMG WTF LOL). They're all there on Kolob my friend, with the Mormon God. So let's launch a mission to Kolob, before more people's core being is quashed & destroyed.

More info:
Is your god an alien?
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/kolob_tract.htm

More info on Mormonism from a former Mormon Missionary & Mormon Temple Worker:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm

More recent thoughts, observations and rants:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com

The principal crime of Mormonism - subverting normal human sexuality:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/subverting-normal-human-sexuality.html

Kolob homeworld meme set initiated message prohibiting oral sex:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
page two:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

Responses from others on the issue of the Mormon approach to sex:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-of-Forgiveness-ebook/product-reviews/B002JQK1VG/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

So, it's not all about "white shirts" and "family." If you reject having to kiss the ass of their leaders & their hostile alien god, you may well get kicked out of & rejected by your "family." They put their church & their god above family - so that's not real & true family values my friend.

Subverting normal human sexuality: Mormon Church's principal crime

Problems with Mormonism that the never-been-a-Mormon media has no concept of & needs to be educated about:

"The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."

http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
page two:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

The author of the above policy wrote the following book:
http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt

In mobot distribution centers they have, in several prominent languages, the Book of Mormon, maybe the family home evening manual, but always this POS book.

"...Steps to Fornication
Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, pregnancy, and abortions all ugly sins but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Paul wrote as if to modern young people who deceive themselves that their necking and petting are but expressions of love: 'Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves.' (Rom 1:24.) How could the evils of petting be more completely described?"

"Too often, young people dismiss their petting with a shrug of their shoulders as a little indiscretion, while admitting that fornication is a base transgression. Too many of them are shocked, or feign to be, when told that what they have done in the name of petting was in reality fornication. The dividing line is a thin, blurry one, and Paul probably referred to these sins ranging from petting to fornication when he said: 'For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.' (Eph. 5:12.) And the Lord perhaps was referring to this evil when in our own time he was reiterating the Ten Commandments: '... Neither commit adultery, nor kill, nor do anything like unto it.' (D&C 59:6.)
Our young people should know that their partners in sin will not love or respect them if they have freedom in fondling their bodies. Such a practice destroys respect, not only for the other person but for self. It destroys the ultimate respect for virtue. And it ignores the oft-repeated prophetic warning that one should give his or her life rather than to yield to loss of virtue."

"Too many have lost themselves completely in sin through this doorway of necking and petting. The devil knows how to destroy our young girls and boys. He may not be able to tempt a person to murder or to commit adultery immediately, but he knows that if he can get a boy and a girl to sit in the car late enough after the dance, or to park long enough in the dark at the end of the lane, the best boy and the best girl will finally succumb and fall. He knows that all have a limit to their resistance."

"Those who have received the Holy Ghost after baptism certainly know that all bodily contacts of this kind are pernicious and abominable. They recognize too that the God of yesterday, today, and tomorrow continues to demand continence and to require that people come to the marriage altar as virgins, clean and free from sex experience..."

"...Almost like twins,'petting' and especially 'heavy petting' and fornication are alike. Also like twins, the one precedes the other, but most of the same characteristics are there. The same passions are aroused and, with but slight difference, similar bodily contacts are made. And from it are likely to come the same frustrations, sorrows, anguish, and remorse."

"All those who have slipped into the disgraceful and most reprehensible habit of transgressing through petting should immediately change their lives, their habits, and their thought patterns, repent sorely in 'sackcloth and ashes,' and by confession get so far as possible a clearance from the Lord and the leaders of his Church so that a measure of peace may accompany them through their lives. To those who have been properly taught and who have properly appraised the evils and have restrained and protected themselves from these foul acts, God bless them and help them to continue their virginity and cleanness, that they may never have the remorse and anguish which has or will come to their brothers and sisters who have indulged..."

...what a load of hate filled human spirit destroying garbage.

Apt responses found online from your fellow humans:

"Because this book is a crime against humanity and he should have been tried for ever releasing it upon the world. Hundreds of thousands, perhaps a million or more people have suffered terribly as a result of being A) Human and B) manipulated or in some cases forced to read this pile of filth. Save yourself the 8-10 hours it takes to read it cover to cover and go to your nearest Mormon 'priesthood' holder and ask them to punch you in the face several times. It will be less painful."
http://www.amazon.com/review/R18WLDDC75NVFK/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R18WLDDC75NVFK

"I want to burn this book... This is by far the most deplorable book i have ever read. I wanted to burn it so no one else could ever read it, but instead i keep it hidden as a reminder to why i have no desire to ever be a lds, morg bot... My husband was born and raised lds i was seriously considering a full conversion and having our marriage sealed in the temple... That is until i found this book amongst his things..."

"The sin next to murder are you serious!!! 'A woman who has be raped should wish herself dead.' 'A parent should wish their child dead rather than have them commit the sin next to murder'"

"As i woman how has been through a rape I feel it is deplorable that anyone would ever suggest such a heinous thought to someone who is already struggling and dealing with the emotional ans psychological damage that last forever... Shame on you spencer kimball shame on anyone who would ever recommend or even suggest someone read this book..."

"I am human therefor i have sinned... Not one person on this earth Spencer Kimball included is with out sin..."

"I am worthy and i don't need to pay the lds corporation 10% of my gross income for their stamp of approval, nor do i need to enter the waste of money temple and buy their magical underpants..."

"Thank you Spencer Kimball. Had it not been for this horrific book i most likely would have become another lds drone."
from http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-of-Forgiveness-ebook/product-reviews/B002JQK1VG/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

"Destructive fear- and hate-mongering...
In Kimball's book, everybody is evil, including the coffee drinker, but none more so than the homosexual. Kimball finds it regrettable that today's society is more tolerant towards homosexuals than in Old Testament times when homosexuals and other fornicators were stoned to death. No wonder gay mormons are driven to suicide, and not only gay mormons, but all mormons will inevitably fail to live up to Kimball's impossible moral standards (one possible reason people in Utah consume so much antidepressants). This book is guaranteed to cause lots of despair, hopelessnes and crushed self-esteem among many readers. It's just about the worst book you could give to someone who's struggling with any type of personal problem (statements like "one should give his or her life rather than to yield to loss of virtue" could even be interpreted as to encourage suicide, althouh that, too, is a sin as we learn in a later chapter). He also describes 'sins against the Holy Ghost', which are unforgivable, even if repented."

"'The Miracle of Forgiveness' is an example of religious propaganda at its worst. It is designed to keep the flock in line by preventing critical thinking (which is denounced as the sin of rebellion) and demanding obedience to religious authorities (ie the LDS church leaders, including the author); even failure to pay tithes is a sin. The author also spends a lot of time complaining about the declining morals of modern society, where women wear shorts in public and work instead of being housewives and people play golf instead of observing the Sabbath. It's written with a holier-than-thou attitude and the author's contempt and dislike for humanity in general and "sexual deviants" in particular, is evident throughout the whole book. Kimball likes to give examples of people who have come to him seeking help and these meetings inevitably end with him giving them a condescending lecture about their moral failings. I knew the LDS church was strict but I didn't know they had the type of misanthropic, cold-hearted, taliban mentality they must have to promote this fear-and hate-mongering book."

also from amazon.

And another:
"Criminalization of all things sex...
This book almost killed me. I became suicidal because of ordinary masturbation instincts because I believed in this charlatanism.
The author is preoccupied with sex. Actual criminal conduct is given token mention, then the book dives into the deep end of an anti-sexual preoccupation that would make Kinsey turn over in his grave. It equates homosexuality to beastiality, and makes clear that sexual "sins" are next to murder in severity. This book is the source of the infamous lore in Mormonism that they'd rather bury a child than see them lose their purity."
"Thousands of mormon youth and gays have committed suicide because of sheer psychological malpractice like this. I denounce this book in the strongest terms I can. I have no doubt whatsoever that this book has cost lives. Mine was spared by only seconds.
Shame on you who recommend this book to anyone, but especially youth where it does the most damage."

This page,
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-of-Forgiveness-ebook/product-reviews/B002JQK1VG/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0
is a great example of why W-H-Y there are problems with being an adherent Mormon. Read it closely when considering the costs to having pretty white shirts and pretty buildings.

Some have even died as a result of Kimball's toxic dogma:
http://web.archive.org/web/20120701205227/http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml

And yet, horn dogs Joseph & Brigham got to have all the wives they wanted, 14 & 15 year olds, even those who were married to other men:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives

my own related pages:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm
and
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/
and
http://www.youtube.com/user/chinadreams888

and for this topic, here's a relevant video found:

Keep your Jesus off my penis...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHjsaEK4vnw

Rationalism, Naturalism, Cultural Relativism, and having an accurate view of the world

The rationalist may not enjoy admitting to the biological evolutionary naturalistic roots of what he concludes is "rational." A good analogy is how Spock was portrayed as viewing the world: logical until mating season came around, but even then his actions were in the end logical to him.

It's is indeed rational to eat, breath, have sex, love, make babies, have fun, and so on - so the rationalist will naturally conclude because his brain and being are coded to conclude as much. So be it. Humans aren't fully rational though, whatever the fuck rational may actually mean.

In any case, the idea that we can divorce ourselves from emotion is an illusion and is in many ways a potentially damaging self deception. Go without food long enough, or other of our primary biological needs, and the supposedly strict rationalist will very quickly go right off the rails. Pretend like you've got a "rational mind" divorced from your "emotional mind" and you're frankly drive yourself and others crazy.

On cultural relativism: I don't have a problem with judging how people acted in the past. There's a limit to my own tolerance regarding past behavior, and I believe everyone has a limit. My mentioning of Mohamed's 9 year old wife was to show one example. Maybe people did marry at 14 in the past more, but there's all sorts of things that used to happen which we now have concluded were incorrect actions. Incorrect now, and, incorrect then. For example: slavery, the oppression of women, having kings rule with an iron fist, and so on.

Pinker has spoken of an progressing moral zeitgeist as has Dawkins. Also Harris has some good ideas on a science of morality. Thank goodness we now have a much wider scope for our in group morality.

Down at BYU in the psychology & religion departments, they may strongly decry the "hedonistic" nature of "the world," and try to get their students to be wary. They go to their churches on Sunday where Mormon bishops interrogate youngsters about masturbation, and where all the youngsters learn to fear normal natural human sexuality. But, meanwhile, their founding prophets have been reasonably documented as doing things which the Mormon Church would excommunicate people for. So that's the point. Hypocrisy.

Don't masturbate Johnny, but meanwhile worship a god who had literal sex with the wife of another man. Don't have oral sex, Julie and Jim, but meanwhile Brigham & Joseph got to have sex with the wives of other men and with under age girls.

My own experience with Mormonism has made me more of a strong naturalist, on both sides of the cultural spectrum. So for example I'm all for people having as many babies as they want - if that's what deep down they feel like doing. The exuberance of the gays has a companionship with the exuberance of a large family. I try not to disparage either course of action because deep down people are doing what they feel included to do as animals. So be it. And, as rather intelligent animals maybe in the long term we can engineer and way to stay alive when the sun gets 10% hotter.

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2010/12/funeral-talk-that-i-gave-in-february.html

The bottom line is that I don't think everything is relative. All societies past & present can for example be evaluated against the following yardstick: How well did each help humans be happy & thrive, and how much did each hold people down & make them unhappy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_of_morality

What was it like, when God had sex with Mary?

Today I found a Family Guy clip about the conception of Jesus, and that reminded of the following question:

What was it like, when God had sex with Mary?

Even in Catholicism, how did the Holy Ghost overshadow Mary's vajayjay?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajayjay

Here's Mormon references for your spiritual and humor-bone edification:
http://www.mormonwiki.org/Conception_of_Jesus
http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon385.htm

Here's the relevant Family Guy clip:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2fhb16QP-dA

And my own video commentary is attached below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OymNAUmVUBY

Relevant clip from an older film, showing Elohim knocking on the door of Mary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgBNVcY6ro8&t=2m58s

Also, whodathunkit, Joseph Smith thought Jesus was married also?

The whole video is interesting and is mostly accurate.

Here's more on the Catholic version, where a guy in a sheet gets to have sex with her...
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_life_of_jesus/jesus_is_born_02/lk01_35.html

The Mormon oral sex letter stating it's bad:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

And yet, Joseph & Brigham had 14 & 15 year old wives & also wives who were still married to other men:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives

---

Additional thoughts, regarding the issue of marrying young & whether people in the past married at 14 or 15:

In this case I would have a slightly easier time sympathizing with 17 or 16. There are some older looking 14 year olds. Both Joseph & Brigham took other men's wives as brides. Also consider Aisha:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
and the lego version of Moohamed's meeting with her at age nine:
http://mattseanbachman.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/mohammed-lego.png

Relevant quote: "...According to traditional sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated..."

Maybe on a Fiddler on the Roof type of scenario 14 is ok, if one or the other are 14 or 15 are they are in love. But some older cult leader took taking a 14 year old to wife, that's when the icky poo factor comes in more. Also Moohamed having a 9 year old one was not so good.

Moohamed was a great man though, nine year old fully consummated bride and all, according to the national Unitarian organization:

http://www.isna.net/uploads/1/5/7/4/15744382/uu_muslim_interfaith_guide.pdf
[previously at: http://www.uusc.org/files/BBToolkit_uu_muslim_interfaith_guide.pdf ]

But Islam is about social justice, right? According to muff brained Unitarians, Amy Goodman, and Reza Aslan. Sometimes we go to Unitarian meetings, but we don't go to the congregation where they said Mohamed was a "great man who cared about women & treated them well," and for the one we do sometimes go to we'll be monitoring any religious education curricula to ensure it's not whitewashing dogma. Liberals can have dishonest religion too...

Related blog post:
Unitarian Universalist fawning appreciation of Mohammad and Islam:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2010/12/unitarian-universalist-fawning.html

I'm personally all for "marrying young" and evening having babies young if a couple feels so inclined, but when when at least one of the parties is under say 18 or 21, then the age difference should be less than can be common for people over 18 or 21. And the whole cult or warlord leader taking yougin' to wife is a different scenario from similarly aged youngsters hooking up.

Crazed old fart virgins don't know shit - and keep them away from your children

From the BBC today:

"...Pope Benedict reaffirms the importance of the Christian belief in the virgin birth, that Jesus was not conceived through sexual intercourse but through the Holy Spirit."

Isn't that nice.

Back to the sex is evil gig of a bunch of crazed old farts.

An apt response from Andrew Sullivan:
"...The Catholic church does not condemn a whole class of human beings, regardless of their acts, as deemed inferior by God for all time because of their biological nature, having to wait even in the hereafter behind all other groups to become gods themselves. It condemns non-procreative sex for all, and by that teaching uniquely singles out gays for lives of loneliness, celibacy and repression, while permitting the infertile and the elderly to be full members of the church even as they too have non-procreative sex..."

Also check out:

http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2010/04/its-celibacy-stupid/188420/
and
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2010/apr/01/why-celibacy-should-be-abolished/

Now, then there's the perverse alternative from Mormonism, where we learn that God the Father (Elohim) had sex with Mary the Mother of Jesus.

Didn't they teach you that in Sunday School?
http://www.mormonwiki.org/Conception_of_Jesus

And, once again my friends, Joseph & Brigham, they like'd'em young, and also women who were simultaneously married to other men:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives

But then, later, it's the f-ing old farts again, who screw things up. Spencer Kimball's hate filled book: http://www.amazon.com/review/RTF9W8850RNTE

Boyd KKK fudge Packer comes out with his anti-masturbation little factory pamphlet:
http://www.lds-mormon.com/only.shtml

Spencer Kimball tells Mormons that oral sex is bad:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

So, what's the bottom line?

Crazed old fart virgins don't know shit, AND keep them away from your children.