My Journey to Conservatism

The Aristotelian-Ptolemaic model of the universe ended up being wrong:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocentric_model

Galileo helped correct as did others.

Newton wasn't wrong, but his concepts didn't include Relativity nor Quantum Mechanics nor  Quantum field theory.

Jeffersonian Deism's clockwork universe with a Supreme Architect was the most reasonable one at the time, but in light of current observations such a stance can no longer be reasonably supported.

Questioning dominant paradigms is actually quite a useful activity. And questioning and sometimes lampooning sacred cows. It's essential.

Enlightenment Values are worth preserving. America is the best example of a country which exemplifies Enlightenment values.

Values not given by any god. But rather given by 13.8+ billion years of evolution by natural selection, and by our history & choices.

The religious right denies the facts of evolution, while living lives which are often in fact 'most true' to it.

The dogmatic de facto religious left claims to believe in evolution, while often living lives which are essentially traitorous to evolution.

"...Although the initial development of moral foundations theory focused on cultural differences, subsequent work with the theory has largely focused on political ideology. Various scholars have offered moral foundations theory as an explanation of differences among political progressives (liberals in the American sense), conservatives, and libertarians, and have suggested that it can explain variation in opinion on politically charged issues such as gay marriage and abortion. In particular, Haidt and fellow researchers have argued that progressives stress only two of the moral foundations (Care and Fairness) in their reasoning, and libertarians stress only two (Liberty and Fairness), while conservatives stress all six more equally."
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory

Religion is a natural phenomenon, a fact which cuts several ways. Yes it's another reason for the mystical claims to be debunked. But it also means that fully natural evolved human moral codes of conduct are often couched within religious contexts.

Dennett on religion being natural:
https://youtu.be/56VAZNx8HBQ

...a fact also mostly fully lost on all dogmatic leftist atheists who still have a chip on their should regarding being lied to in their former conservative religions.

Being wrong can be a virtue, if we're willing to change our minds upon new evidence.

Was born an atheist.

At age 5 learned there was a sky god. Seemed strange to me, but ok.

At age 9 learned I was a sexual animal. Whodathunkit.

At age 11 learned that the sky god was more than a bit upset at my being a sexual animal. The natural man, and 11 year old kid coming of age, is an enemy to god after all, right?

Between the ages of 19 and 21 I spent 2 years making maps on 3x5 cards, taking pictures of sunsets, and avoiding a proper admission that I was a normal sexual animal.

While at BYU at the age of 23 I started questioning the shaming the sky god likes to do regarding being a normal sexual animal.

While at Weber State I learned about physics and evolution. What I learned filled a hole left by my increasing rejection of the mysticism learned in my youth.

At age 26 I fully rejected the mysticism, and I resigned from the religion of my youth (Mormonism).

Between the ages of 13 and 23 I was a socially (religiously) conservative Democrat, because my father was a somewhat rare Democrat within a sea of Republicans within his religion.

At 26 I became more socially liberal, an ultra-liberal essentially. Drafted an exit journal.

In response to leaving an ultra-conservative religion, I switched to being an ultra-leftist socially.

Participated in a few nudist events, until I realized they were hypocritical.

Fully bought into Bruce Bagemihl's theory that because there's gay animals therefore gayness must be valued as a primary trail which is being selected for - which I now realize is completely & utterly wrong. Homosexuality is an outlier effect of the way sex gets set up in humans & in all animals which exhibit the treat. A side effect which is not being selected for. What's selected for is reproduction & survival, period. The machinery of biological evolution produces outliers. Doesn't meant the outliers have inherent value. Also doesn't mean they should be thrown off buildings, except for outright pedophiles and psychopaths.

Was a fat bastard living in my parent's basement. Developed cataracts. Had cataract surgery. No more thick glasses. Lost 110 pounds. Lived in Portland, Oregon for a year and a half. While in Portland visited a swingers event once. Didn't witness anything explicit & didn't participate. But I saw basically how they operate. And my assessment was that the way they organized themselves was strange & basically abusive.

After leaving Portland I married a socially conservative atheist from rural China with zero connection to the Book of Mormon, Bible, or Quran.

Took in via videos & lectures much of the work of the following people:

Christopher Hitchens
Richard Dawskins
Daniel Dennett
Steven Pinker
Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Events like 9/11 happened. The Denmark Mohamed cartoons & the stupid & crazy responses. Theo Van Gogh being killed after he released a film about how women in Islam are abused. The Charlie Hebdo massacre. The Garland, Texas Draw Mohamed contest which two Islamic people tried to shoot up.

I examined the response of the left, of the Democrat part of my father, of all the stations & people who liked & listened to & would have listened to. As an ex-Mormon, I examined who exactly supported drawing Mohamed. Who supports ex-Muslims? Who supports Muslims leaving Islam? It's not he left. It's not the Democrats. So, I realized I was wrong, about politics.

My socially conservative atheist wife helped me question the socially leftist paradigm I had bought into as an ex-Mormon with a chip on his shoulder about the lies of Mormonism. Daniel Dennett's talks about religion being a natural phenomenon helped also. Plus I had years of experience of engaging in first hand observational de facto studies of what the left has to offer socially. The nhilism of narcissism of gay culture. What being 'childfree' really means: slow motion suicide. That the left is in denial regarding the roots of homosexuality. And when I told an atheist group in Salt Lake that I liked Duck Dynasty, they booted me in a worse way than I ever experienced when leaving Mormonism. A very religious way of booting.

The children of breeders will inherit the Earth. The 'childfree' will not, and neither will the non-breeding gays.

In the past I used to hate Ayn Rand. Now I'm willing to check out some of her ideas, because mostly *only* libertarians support drawing Mohamed nowadays, and a very few lonely leftists who're mostly in denial regarding how the left has left them behind.

Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, really was a eugenicist. And Christopher Hitchens has rightly pointed out that the unborn do have some rights. The left is wrong about these points also.

While a member of another leftist atheist group, Salt Lake Valley Atheists (now defunct), I observed how they kicked out of their midst a pro-life atheist woman. That experiencing was eye opening for me. Prior to that I thought that atheism equaled skepticism & reason. Now I realize it doesn't, not automatically. Leftist atheism is just another f-ing religion, a cult.

So I'm in recovery from leftistism, politically & socially.

The conservatism I embrace is not that of Glenn Beck, nor of establishment Republicans. I reject religios conservatism which seeks to shame people for masturbation & oral sex & an appreciation of art which falls into the nude and erotic spheres. There is no god who gets upset when gay people meet up. But, from an evolutionary perspective, they'd probably be happier if they lived straight lives.

Heresy, heresy, heresy, for your average leftist atheist who is just so upset with the conservative religions of their youths & etc.

Not throwing out the baby of good evolved highly valuable human values with the bath water of mysticism is a very hard task. Most just assume that 'without god everything is permitted.' But it's not. Not because there's no god, but because we're highly complex evolved moral animals. Evolved moral codes act as counter weights to also evolved proclivities which can lead to destructive dead ends.

Current people on my appreciation list:

Trump - what swayed me to his side after some initial skepticism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiA0P9iELAA
(Milo Y talking with Rubin)

Christopher Hitchens - provided initial key skepticism regarding the Clintons, and regarding some leftist doctrinal tenants. No one left to Lie To, book info.

Daniel Dennett - a much better philosopher than Sam Harris (Harris is I realize now, a myopic hack)

Steven Pinker - debunked the 'blank slate' concepts of social constructivists. Related videos, longer part 1, part 2. And a Ted talk.

Bosch Fawstin - an ex-Muslim who won the Draw Mohamed cartoon contest in Garland, Texas. Talk to Children of Jewish Holocaust Survival. Cartoon contest talk.

Mark Steyn - skepticism regarding the 'hockey stick' concept regarding climate change. Very honest regarding the facts & impacts of Islam.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali - an ex-Muslim truth teller. Colleague of Theo Van Gogh who got killed as noted above. She needs round the clock security, and in America only a conservative think tank would help pay for that security. Leftists consider her to be racist & bigoted - so this is a key reason also why I'm no longer a leftist.

All Enlightenment thinkers, and the Enlightenment-based founders of America.

Roger Stone - a long time truth teller who I've newly found

Dinesh D'Souza - a debate partner with Hitchens. Hitchens told the truth about the Clintons, and Dinesh has a great movie about the issue now. Dinesh may be wrong about whether a god exists, but he's right about the impacts of leftist atheism (very negative nhilistic impacts).

Rush - a valuable truth teller who for too long I discounted & hated. He was right all along. I was wrong for many years.

Sean Hannity - a guy with 20 years of real work experience who hasn't forgotten what it's like to be a regular working Joe. Truth teller.

Milo Yiannopoulos - a brash conservative gay Brit who helped me see the high utilitarian value to a Trump presidency.

Doug Mainwaring - a guy who came to his sanity and returned to be with & support his straight family, AKA his family. My uncle wasn't so lucky, and was a victim of the ultra-right and the ultra-left.

Added August 2017:

Jordan B. Peterson - great info on the problems of neomarxist postmodernism.

Gad Saad - great evolutionary behavior scientist.

---

Related posts:

Lies present in conservative religion force children into the abusive arms of the denialist myopic left.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2016/02/lies-present-in-conservative-religion.html

Where does social conservatism come from? From human nature.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/11/where-does-social-conservatism-come.html

Humans are not Bonobos - Response to Darrel Ray and his brand of so-called Secular Sexuality - Commentary about abusive leftist confusion regarding human nature, and the evolutionary roots and benefits of some degree of sexual shame.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/10/humans-are-not-bonobos-response-to.html

Lives and families are destroyed by Tranny and Gay acceptance and promotion - LGBT abusive outliers are not equal
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/07/lives-and-families-are-destroyed-by.html

Homosexuality occurs in nature? So what. Can I be a "black atheist" too?
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/homosexuality-occurrs-in-nature-so-what.html

On American exceptionalism: the left's hatred of America
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/02/on-american-exceptionalism-left-hatred.html

Thank God for the Crusades - speaking as an atheist
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/02/thank-god-for-crusades-speaking-as.html

And the worst of these is Islam: Foolish bleeding hearts helped birth Islamic State
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/02/and-worst-of-these-is-islam-foolish.html

Naked women protesting: The EXACT response needed, to Islam in general, Islamic State, and censors of Charlie Hebdo cartoons.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/02/naked-women-protesting-exact-response.html

Comments in response to the general Mormon stance on marriage
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/02/comments-in-response-to-general-mormon.html

Latest thoughts on the pressing issues of the day
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/02/latest-thoughts-on-pressing-issues-of.html

Leftist religion loves Islam and hates the West and the fruits of the Enlightenment
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/01/leftist-religion-loves-islam-and-hates.html

The Atheist Movement needs move laxative - Making room for social & political conservatives!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-atheist-movement-needs-move.html

John Harvey Kellogg: what a fucker. Masturbation prevention is evil.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/10/john-harvey-kellogg-what-fucker.html

response to Rory Patrick's 100 day masturbation abstinence - the pain and sorrow of having genitals
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/10/response-to-rory-patricks-100-day.html

Balkan Erotic Epic - part of the set of short films in Destricted - commentary & review
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/10/balkan-erotic-epic-part-of-set-of-short.html

Liberal anger at being human - Criticisms of California Senate Bill SB 967
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/10/liberal-anger-at-being-human-criticisms.html

whitewashing history -- sex obsessed ancestors -- nudist hypocrisy
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/09/whitewashing-history-sex-obsessed.html

Are Mormonism & Catholicism homosexual & pedophile generators?
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/are-mormonism-catholicism-homosexual_24.html

Questions for Mormon Missionaries - God, Sex, and honesty | 16 questions for Mormon Missionaries
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/03/questions-for-mormon-missionaries-god.html

Repackaged bullshit: Porn The New Tobacco | Jack Fischer | TEDxBinghamtonUniversity
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/08/repackaged-bullshit-porn-new-tobacco.html

The best part of social conservatism advocates for family & life & children & what leftists derisively call 'breeding.'

Breeders will inherit the Earth. Problems with "recovery" from religion
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/06/breeders-will-inherit-earth-problems.html

Really the children of breeders will inherit the Earth.

The worst part of religious-based 'conservatism' comes from religions which use fear & shame to teach children & adults to hate the evolved sexual systems in their bodies. But this 'conservatism' doesn't conserve anything. It just tends to churn out destructive ultra-right and ultra-left abusive extremists. The ultra-right religionists who stay in their religions & who continue teaching their children to hate their bodies & the fact that we're sexual animals. And the children who reflexively rebel, turning into non-reproductive outliers & 'childfree' wastrels.

Liberals have a strange alliance with ultra-right religious 'conservatives.' Leftists hate human nature just as much as the ultra-right religionists seems to. The combined human-nature-hating team consists of: Islam people, some Mormons, some Catholics, and leftists who a.) love Islam, and b.) hate the fact that human males are evolved to enjoy good looking women - and who hate 1.2 billion years of evolutionary sexual history just as much as the ultra-right religionists do. Leftists also hate the fact that humans are sexually dimorphic, and they actively ignore that we're not 'blank slates,' as Steven Pinker has commented on.

I'm for good women and men who put family & children first.

I'm proudly voting for Trump. He's my kind of Republican. Not a highly shaming human-nature-hating right-wing religionist, nor a human-nature-hating leftist.

Conserving through truth telling. Conserving through advocacy for family. Conversing through de facto advocacy that the Western Enlightenment continue - which also means conserving and protecting America & traditional American values.

Perhaps where I'm at is a socially moderate / conservative / pragmatic libertarian. But I strongly maintain that pot does rot your brain. And I don't dogmatically follow all libertarian principles. Libertarianism can be a de facto religion too, and I don't wish to join any religions.

I probably aspire to the conservatism Jonathan Haidt mentions, with more equal alliance to Care, Fairness, Liberty, Loyalty, Authority, and Sanctity. The Sanctity of life, not the Sanctity of sacred cows. Loyalty to the Enlightenment and Enlightenment principles. The Authority of the Rule of Law. Care, but not through the Dole because the Dole helps no one mostly. Fairness, but not 'social justice.' Fairness through a fairness of opportunity - but not opportunity at the cost of group rights hierarchies nor identity politics.

Repackaged bullshit: Porn The New Tobacco | Jack Fischer | TEDxBinghamtonUniversity

November 2017 addendum:

My views on the matter of porn have evolved some. From Pompeii onward there's many examples showing that humans have enjoyed watching portrayals of human sexuality. The ideal expression of sexuality is within marriage. Before marriage, masturbation should be used, but prudently so that you still have enough sexual energy for dating.

Yes, regular porn is crass and stupid, and even abusive. And the industry is a sink hole of abuse. Harlotry & whoring, on film.

Yes it's useful to see how sex works.

Yes, it can be fun. But, don't have too much fun. Seek out people in real life.

Balance.

Prudence.

What would be the solution? Well, I would now lean toward keeping kids away from the stuff completely of course. Completely. And adult should should be, well, as f-ing minimal as possible, with a very strong preference being given toward real in person interactions.

Dating and marriage in other words. Marriage. And yes marriage with children, and that's the point of sex: children!

-----------------------

Ultra-right religious bullshit, repackaged via TED(x) morons:

Porn The New Tobacco | Jack Fischer | TEDxBinghamtonUniversity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9pPgIraoOM
My video response:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZDHeKDieAc

Human interest in watching open expressions of human sexuality isn't fucking the new tobacco.

And neither is the darker side of porn 1.0, where people crassly sell a very poor and inaccurate portrayal of human sexuality.

Porn 2.0 is a step up, where people organically share more honest expressions of intimate activities. Sites such as xtube.com have such expressions, but sadly sites with some porn 2.0 content are fully funded via crass & abusive porn 1.0 content.

Porn 3.0 would be where humans can share full & honest expressions of human sexuality without the abusive harlottry of porn 1.0 being around at all.

Also Porn 3.0 would mention how sex results in babies! Perish the thought!

Can the two concepts be merged? Porn 3.0 would leave the whores in the dust, but still would share honest expressions of human sexuality.

Now, back to Jack Fischer: This "nofap" business of ascribing nobility to abstinence from masturbation: That is abuse - the very quintessence of it.

My own experience with masturbation in the Mormon Church:

Mortal Mormonism: How Mormons are taught to do right, then betrayed and shamed by their upper leaders. By Jonathan , a former: temple worker, full time missionary, Sunday School president, priesthood holder, and member of the Mormon Church. A personal journal & explanation.

http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/Mortal_Mormonism.htm
or http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/Mortal-Mormonism-November-26-2005.pdf

In Mormonism they teach young children from at least the age of eleven that masturbation is evil. They also readily share a terrible book called Miracle of Forgiveness by past Mormon prophet Spencer Kimball about the evils of masturbation, how masturbation can destroy your life, may turn you into a homosexual, and is a sin which must be confessed to a Mormon Bishop and is a sin which makes it so you cannot visit the Mormon temples.

Related previous posts:

Jesus wants me for an asshole: the song of LDS missionaries, bishops, and prophets
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/03/jesus-wants-me-for-asshole-song-of-lds.html

lds.org : discover the perversity or Mormonism
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html

Advice for TBMs on porn: Why society accepts pornography but not littering?
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/advise-for-tbms-on-porn-why-society.html

To the Mormon wife whose husband is 'addicted to porn:' 12 *real* steps that will help!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/07/to-mormon-wife-whos-husband-is-addicted.html

---------------

Now it's true that there's "dangers" with uneducated exposure to crass harlotry. But on the other hand we can go too far with the shaming.

So take with a huge grain of salt advise from fuckers like this guy:

The great porn experiment | Gary Wilson | TEDxGlasgow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU

Why be wary of advise from people like this guy? Because there's a very easy abusive slope and connection between ultra-right type abusive sexual shaming, and the supposedly secular repackaging of these ideas. The "secular" supposedly "scientific" repackaging of ultra-right religious shaming regarding human sexuality - is by it's very nature inherently problematic.

As for all this, and especially regarding shaming for masturbation:

You CAN and you WILL teach children to hate their own bodies!

You CAN and you WILL teach children and adults VERY unhealthy ideas regarding masturbation and the value of self-touching and self-exploration.

You CAN and you WILL teach adults they should be AFRAID of having too much sexual energy present in their lives, and in their relationships!

Teaching people to be afraid and fearful of the SEXUAL SYSTEMS built into them by billions of years evolution by natural selection: THAT IS ABUSIVE!

So there is ZERO nobility in abstaining from masturbation.

There is value in having enough sexual energy and motivation to go on a date, or to love your wife more often. That's true! But the easy-ready slope to teaching people to hate their own bodies just because we're inherently sexual, that is something we need to be very careful about doing.

So you abstained from masturbation for six months?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzterc3NqeU

You stupid dumb fuck: Prostate cancer awaits.

Also you are cheating yourself by doing such a moronic thing!

What a moron you are - you "nofap" fool!
Secular repackaging of ultra-right religious shame is really just lipstick on an otherwise abusive pig.

Sorry to see that the TED / TEDx effort has been hijacked by all this. Rich snobs can be dumbshits too.Joycelyn Elders on masturbation:

"...Masturbation, practiced consciously or unconsciously, cultivates in us a humble elegance -- an awareness that we are part of a larger natural system, the passions and rhythms of which live on in us. Sexuality is part of creation, part of our common inheritance, and it reminds us that we are neither inherently better nor worse than our sisters and brothers. Far from evil, masturbation just may render heavenly contentment in those who dare..."
http://web.archive.org/web/20041019084748/http://www.uno.edu/~asoble/pages/elders.htm

And remember that Bill Clinton fired her for stating this type of thing.

Clinton Fires Surgeon General Over New Flap
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-12-10/news/mn-7305_1_surgeon-general

...while at the same time Clinton was having oral sex in the oval office.

A good response from Hitchens:
No One Left to Lie To: The Triangulations of William Jefferson Clinton
http://www.amazon.com/One-Left-Lie-Triangulations-Jefferson/dp/1455522996

Bill Clinton, Womanizer and Adulterer In Chief, fired a surgeon general who advocates for the value of masturbation.

Past Mormon Prophet Spencer Kimball tells married couples they should not engage in oral sex, and that masturbation is a great evil.

Oral sex:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
page two:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

Masturbation:
http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/masturbation.htm

Mormon leader Boyd Packer comes out with an incredibly abusive anti-masturbation pamphlet which is shared very widely with all Mormon boys.

Text in pamphlet:
http://www.lds-mormon.com/only.shtml

Evangelical Christian fuckers buy into the same abusive bullshit.

And then fucking TEDx allows repackagers of ultra-right religious shame in a supposedly "secular" form.

Thanks TEDx & TED, and go to hell.

--------------

Keep masturbating!

Share your masturbation experiences with your partner!

Help your partner start masturbating!

Even be so bold as to search for porn 2.0 on the internet (real people engage in real sex, not whores showing a false view - hard to find, but may you can find it).

Use that you find to help to expand your repertoire with your real life partner!

Your brain isn't being hijacked, no more than breathing hijacks your body. Sex is a key part of who we are - inseparable. That's why people who teach us to feel bad for being sexual animals are evil, even sexual repackagers of such abusive shame.

Yes there's some value in limited amounts of shame if a given activity leads to a dead end. But medium or long term abstinence from masturbation is an inherent abuse.

Religions like Mormonism & Evangelical Christianity DO hijack human sexuality, for their own nefarious ends. They subvert normal natural humanity for their own evil ends. And "nofap" is a supposedly secular apology for this subversion.

Suicide in Mormonism from anti-masturbation bull, as in the The Godmakers documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm1oS00F4n4&t=23m15s 
...start at or fast forward to time index 23:15, and especially continue through past 24:33 to learn about a young man who killed himself because he was taught within Mormonism to hate his own body.

More info:
http://web.archive.org/web/20131021180407/http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml

------------

Additional links:

Mormon Bishops Are Child Abusers | Brain washed pretentious pompous claptrap, from a bunch of retrograde old farts: Thomas S. Monson, Spencer W. Kimball, Boyd Packer
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/03/mormon-bishops-are-child-abusers-brain.html

Thanks Masturbation!
http://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/32jfqh/thanks_masturbation/

Mormon Bishop shows first hand how they interrogate children on the topic:
http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/Email-exchange-with-bishop-regarding-masturbation

No More: End Mormons' Sexually Invasive Interviews of Children - facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/pages/No-More-End-Mormons-Sexually-Invasive-Interviews-of-Children/503622079732706

Time To Ask Romney About LDS History Of Sex Abuse Cover-ups
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/time-ask-romney-about-lds-history-sex

#MORMONS allow their children to be interrogated by #LDS Bishops about Sex/Masturbation behind closed doors.It is Child Abuse #twitterstake
https://twitter.com/cwillardsmoot/status/586191864732192769

Masturbation 'cuts cancer risk'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3072021.stm

Lives and families are destroyed by Tranny and Gay acceptance and promotion - LGBT abusive outliers are not equal

Tranny culture RUINS lives and families
LGBT outliers are not equal

 (YouTube banned this video four years after it was posted, so I put it on BitChute. Hey Google & Youtube: Fuck you.)

  


Youtube banned link:  Tranny culture RUINS lives and families - LGBT outliers are not equal

https://youtu.be/YWPnt9-Urzk

Start with 8 (children), as an ultra-hard-line Mormon family.

Later 3 get sucked into a man-hating crazy-woman-led cult. The 3 all change their last names to that of the cult leader (the Cropper cult of Logan, Utah). 1 of the 3 Cropper cult converts later decides he's gay, while still working at BYU.

More recently 1 of the 8 decides to "change" from a man to a woman (not a Cropper cult 3, but another of the 8), leaving his children homeless and a broken home.

1 commits suicide (also separate from the 3 Cropper cult ones - probably because of irritable bowel syndrome in part, and who knows why else).

What are the causes? Why all this chaos in an ultra-right ultra-hard-line Mormon family?

Here's some theories:

A. Too much cheap ground beef as a child, and too much rice and beans? Cheapy poor-person possibly-third-world style nutrition as children, for all 8.

B. Parents too strict ultra Mormon. Father very angry and sometimes violent. Mother extreme passive aggressive my way or the highway type person re being a strict Mormon.

C. Related past thoughts:

Are Mormonism & Catholicism homosexual & pedophile generators? | Connections between homosexuality & pedophilia
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/are-mormonism-catholicism-homosexual_24.html

D. An omnipresent abusive leftist permissive culture which claims "anything goes," when it doesn't?

Related thoughts:

Advice for Social Conservatives & Moderates, from a Family Values Atheist
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/advice-for-social-conservatives.html

Embracing true honest naturalism: Marriage is about children
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/embracing-true-honest-naturalism.html

E. Ultra-rightist cults can spawn new sub-cults. A woman named Cropper in Logan, Utah started.a sub-cult branched from ultra Mormonism. She hates men and does laying on of hands, and has visions where she tell her adherents that all men are evil.

Three of my brother's children were sucked into this strange sub-cult in Logan. They all changed their last names to Cropper, and they now have zero contact with my brother or anyone in my "normal" regular family.

F. Ultra-right religion can cause a worse abuse when a child or adult rebels and becomes a permissive relativist ultra leftist.

See item C for more details.

G. Memetic diseases of the left can at times be more abusive and destructive than those of the right.

Families and lives are destroyed by leftist meme sets.

H. To have all this chaos, my ultra extreme angry passive and non-passive aggressive (sometimes violent) brother and his wife have set up a meat grinder somehow. Many of their children have been fucked up and damaged by the "my way or the highway" type of upbringing.

But on the other hand permissive relativist liberalism is also a meat grinder.

In the past I had a gay uncle who turned his back on his straight family, and he died of AIDS as a result. He was a victim of both the extreme right and the extreme left.

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/gay

So with the latest news that one nephew of mine just destroyed his family because he's chosen to "change" his sex: this man IS a fucking victim of moronic leftist culture which claims that whatever damn fool thing pops into your head should be acted upon.

A marriage and family, destroyed.

Two wonderful little girls, ages 4 and 1, out on the street.

Permissive gay and tranny accepting leftist culture IS to blame for this! But so are his  my way or the highway parents, AS IS anti-heathy-sex Mormonism.

Related thoughts:
Jesus wants me for an asshole: the song of LDS missionaries, bishops, and prophets
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/03/jesus-wants-me-for-asshole-song-of-lds.html

Open ended acceptance of all things ，LGBT results in the destruction of lives! Bruce Jenner for example is a moron who's also a victim of permissive leftistism.

My uncle who jumped from ultra conservative Manti, Utah style Mormonism  to San Francisco put your John Thomas in a glory hole liberalism was a fool and a victim of both the left and the right.

My longer standing pedophile-friend-accepting gay nephew is s victim of the anti-masturbation anti-positive sex Mormonism, AND permissive leftistism.

My newly transgender nephew and his children and his now destroyed family are victims of the meat grinder nature of his patents' ultra conservative strict angry violent Mormonism, and also of permissive relativist leftistism.

Lives are destroyed by ultra rightism and ultra leftistism. A ping pong game that grinds people down to dust.

------

Additional:

'Where does social conservatism come from? From human nature.'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2015/11/where-does-social-conservatism-come.html

'Embracing true honest naturalism: Marriage is about children'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/embracing-true-honest-naturalism.html

'Banned from a conservative atheists facebook group: conservatives who aren't conservative.'
https://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2017/08/banned-from-conservative-atheists.html

Comments in response to the general Mormon stance on marriage

Comments in response to the general Mormon stance on marriage:

I loath Oaks and Kimball and Packer. However it's hard for an exmo to admit that the cultural left is in denial about human nature also. Advocacy for all things "childfree," and not having kids because people in foreign countries supposedly have too many. It's the same logic as eating one's peas because people on China may not eat theirs. The Mormon Church also abuses people by pushing them too far to the left in response.

One of my uncles from Manti had this happen to him - sucked into the equally abusive glory hole culture of San Fran. And one sister who's spent her life traveling and playing and not having kids because of environmental concerns and supposed overpopulation in general - a victim of the left also. Margaret Sanger's life work turning my sister into a near zero on the great mandala.

So it's tough to see value in the cultural middle or right for an exmormon, that's for damn sure. But Dennett's dangerous idea that religion is a natural phenomenon cuts both ways.

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/atheism%20is%20a%20religion

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/childfree

All these things are good:

Having kids.

Masturbation.

Oral sex.

Web 2.0 amateur porn.

Monogamy.

Nudism which does not lie about nudism among adults always having a sexual component.

Being true to our heritage as 13.8 billion year evolved sexual animals who can finally understand how we got here.

Drawing Mohamed and helping free people from cults like Islam and Mormonism.

Showing leftist and rightist Emperors all have no clothes.

response to Rory Patrick's 100 day masturbation abstinence - the pain and sorrow of having genitals

A man (Rory Patrick) abstains from touching his penis for 100 days. Supporters then express solemn tearful solidarity with him.

An interview of the man:

http://www.vice.com/read/our-interview-with-a-guy-who-didnt-masturbate-for-100-days-722

Quote from interview: "...On April 5, 2014, Rory Patrick announced to his Twitter followers that he was going to stop masturbating for 100 days. Soon, a hashtag was started: #Rory100. Friends and supporters cheered him on, sent him messages of encouragement..."

Respondents from his supporters as found at #Rory100: "...solidarity. we love you..." "...I believe..."...in my heart I believe in u & ur miracles..."

My response to all:

Oh the pain & sorrow, of having genitals. The great solidarity raised by three fingers, of others, offering great & wonderful support to the protagonist.

As I viewed the people's responses at #Rory100 I felt amazed, annoyed, and sick. My fuck what did the guy do? Abstain from touching his penis for 100 days? That warrants tearful wondrous support for the guy? WTF?

In any case:

The left bemoans the fact that we have genitals at all, nearly as much as the right does.

The left is unhappy that genitals can be used to make babies.

The right is unhappy that genitals can be used for things other than making babies.

And both seem to get pretty upset when your average sexual urge interferes with your ability to do other activities.

Oh, if there were just a way to separate out this part of our brain, right?

But, to do so is IMO abusive. For example the Mormon flavor of abusiveness:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/Mortal_Mormonism.htm
and http://mormoncurtain.com/topic_markepeterson.html
and http://www.lds-mormon.com/only.shtml

And then there's Islam:
http://nowscape.com/islam/Islam_masturbation.htm

These religious prophets, leaders, and scholars hear you Mr. Patrick. They've got their three fingers up in solidarity with you. So do the Victorians and Puritans.

100 days without masturbating? Who gives a flip (rephrase in the common Internet colloquialism as you please).

I fully agree there can be some value in abstaining say for a few days, or maybe for up to two weeks. So that you can, for example, focus on finding a real in the flesh date or mate. But concepts like Karezza are in my view dangerous and abusive.

And the "solidarity" expressed sort of reminds me of World Hijab Day supporters. An excellent response: http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2013/02/01/world-hejab-day/

And then there's cancer:
Masturbation 'cuts cancer risk'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3072021.stm

And more recent health benefit articles:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2518802/Masturbation-good-health-prevents-cystitis-diabetes-cancer.html

Yes perhaps our moods would be more even if we didn't have genitals. But if we didn't have them we wouldn't be here. So don't look too closely at the mouth of this wonderful gift horse (if that's a good analogy - whatever).

Yes it's good that sex results in kids, and it should. The childfree life has a higher probability of being an empty one.

But it's also mostly ok that outliers like gays can have sex. They can contribute to society, and sex can help their lives be more happy. That's fine too. So both sides are wrong, and right, on these issues.

Potentially related posts:

Self-hatred in the "skeptical" community via angry neurotic so-called "feminists"
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/07/self-hatred-in-skeptical-community-via.html

Subverting normal human sexuality: Mormon Church's principal crime
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/subverting-normal-human-sexuality.html

whitewashing history -- sex obsessed ancestors -- nudist hypocrisy
and explorations & activities after leaving Mormonism: nudism, & Temple Square protests
at http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/puritan

Karezza is dangerous & abusive - reuniting.info: teaches us to be afraid of orgasms, very afraid
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/03/karezza-is-dangerous-abusive.html

Issues with being "childfree:"
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/childfree

Announcement: Ok, I'm not opposed to gay marriage and gay adoption
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/09/announcement-ok-im-not-opposed-to-gay.html

Resignation from the FB group Uncensored LDS/Mormon Discussions

Today I resigned from the group Uncensored LDS/Mormon Discussions.

Why, might you ask?

Oh my god. The answer is so easy: Because the group has censorship!

Here's a copy of the letter I posted:

Ok I'm out of here. I returned to the Mormon pie for a while. Now it's time to leave I can see.

Previously I had mostly moved passed the need to constantly chat about the Mo church. Then I was invited to join this group. I was attracted by the "uncensored" label, and found some joy in being in a place which I thought was truly uncensored. An open forum. And so on.

My experience here was not fully pleasant. Personal attacks - once I questioned some people's dominant paradigms. Then having to block several people who either were directly offensive, piling on, and then as a defense to block a few others who looked to me like they probably were good candidates (because they probably wouldn't like hearing from the "other side" of a given issue as per their own profiles).

Many admins are still too "new exmo," or they've landed in a place where their whole being cannot easily tolerate criticisms of where they've landed.

I have no idea why I blocked one of the admins. But at the time I probably had a good reason. Maybe it's time to search for forums outside the scope of FB again. More anonymity. More freedom. Less control, in general. But mainly more freedom to speak.

FB does have a "blocking" feature. IMO it's generally an abuse to force people to refrain from blocking "all admins" on a given forum (especially when a given forum has many admins), if some of those admins are either a.) the attacking type, or b.) engage in admin-enabled pile ons, or c.) appear to be a person who probably would engage in an attack based on their own strong positions unyielding positions on a given issue.

Ok, so we'll see you on the flip side. Enough of the Mormon pie.

Recovery from Mormonism.

Recovery from the Exmormon Foundation.

Recovery from the Unitarian Universalists.

Recovery from the "PostMormon" coffee group.

Recovery from Atheists of Utah.

Recovery from naturalist & humanist groups who are religions unto themselves.

Recovery from a temporary wade back into the deep waters of Mormonism via this forum. Time to depart...

Don't stay too long w/recovery groups - for your own well being. Move on to greener pastures... That's my advise. I have. I need to remember that. Bye.

-----------------------

Anyway it's quite sad really. When Mormons leave the Mormon Church they easily retain their propensity to control & censor others. Is the reason for this that religion is a natural phenomenon? Perhaps. Perhaps it is simply natural to try to control other people. To try & force them to your own meme set's rules & ideals.

The "Uncensored LDS/Mormon Discussions" group is still hierarchical. Thus they MUST censor to maintain their hierarchy & leadership. Disrespect (or block for whatever reason) one of five admins, and you're out. That's censorship.

Also the group constantly chats about Mormon stuff. Really, I was mostly past the need to chat about Mormon minutia. I've got bigger fish to fry & better things to spend my time responding to. So really, it's perhaps a blessing in disguise that these ex-Mormons acted exactly like many ex-Mormons do: They act exactly like Mormons. So, time to move on past these people. And by the way, many other religions act like Mormons too. Heresy trials. Excommunication. Even liberal groups do this! That's why it's important to try & move beyond religion, where possible. To embrace fully free speech. Even free speech for those who hurt the feelings of others.

Honesty must take precedence.

The Mormon Church is not pro-family. | The old farts cannot stop us! | Moving forward.

Quotes from the Church of the Fridge

Under the Pretense of Love

"Yesterday the NY Times reported the purge of three notable voices who spoke out on real Mormon Issues from within the LDS church. John Dehlin of Mormon Stories, Kate Kelly, founder of the Ordain Women Movement, and Alan Rock Waterman of Pure Mormonism were delivered letters summoning them to church disciplinary councils where they are to be tried for apostasy. The news hit me harder than I expected it would. I have not met any of these people. But I know intimately the emotions they are facing in this moment..."

----end of quote
http://churchofthefridge.com/blog/2014/06/12/under-the-pretense-of-love/

Tearing families apart, while claiming you're trying to help them be together forever.

Directly putting a wedge between husband and wife, when one or the other aren't in.

Agreed. The Church is not about love. It's about control, hate, and money, and using the great & huge lie of "we love you" as a primary means of control.

Hearing that shit like this happens today reminds me that the cancer known as Mormonism is still fully alive. The old farts can still pull the levers.

The Mormon Church is not pro-family. Not fully. Not honestly. Yes families are produced. But they're families split right down the middle.

Attention Spencer Kimball, many of my nieces & nephews are out & free. Attention Boyd Packer, you couldn't keep us in. Our little factories are none of your fucking business. Attention, all the old farts at
https://www.lds.org/church/leaders?lang=eng
... you will not hold us down. Not any longer. The net has made us free. Excommunicate a thousand people, and you won't stop us. Our brains, bodies, and souls are no longer yours to command, nor control, nor abuse.

------

Initial exit journal created when I was more leftist, in response to being in recovery from the ultra-right:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm#history

Subsequently moved more toward the middle, after "recovery from recovery:" Also after finally starting a family, and meeting a socially conservative atheist woman from a completely non-Biblical culture.

Families Can Be Together Forever... Through Evolution!
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/families-can-be-together-forever.html

Has your life been happier after leaving Mormonism?

Questions: "...How has life been since you left the LDS church? Do you feel like you're happier?"

Yes, I'm happier, for many reasons.

I'm also upset, for other reasons.

Happy because:

1. I have a wife & kid who aren't Mormon.
2. I'm out.
3. I can touch my John Thomas.
4. I can engage in oral sex.
5. I can drink coffee, tea, and cabernet sauvignon wine.
6. I can watch Destricted, or Caligula without shame or guilt.
7. My kid won't be a Mormon.
8. I'm more intellectually honest.
9. I'm more emotionally honest.
10. I'm no longer in the soul-destroying culture of Mormonism.

Upset because:

A. The "recovery" groups like Atheists of Utah, Unitarian Universalism, CFI, Humanist groups, Minnesota Atheists, Atheism Plus, and even your local Stonewall center (for those so sucked in), are all de facto ultra-leftist religions, with their own unquestionable dogmas & doctrines. Denying human nature & human history, while claiming to be skeptical. Assuming that everything IS permitted when there is no god, even though it's not.

B. The defeatist Krausian mayfly theory of human existence is out there in the secular community, teaching atheists to be just as nihilistic as your average evangelical Christian.

C. Finding that the left can be just as abusive as the right.

D. Finding that the left is so incredibly myopic about the entire scope of human experience. Only the hippie tribes are valued. But desert tribes, or even Chinese tribes, oh, we must ignore them. Hippie colored glasses slant their view.

E. On the other hand, I'm also upset that the Mormon Church continues to destroy the lives of children & adults, via wide publication in many languages of incredibly abusive books like Miracle of Forgiveness. I'm also upset that sexually intrusive interviews still happen with children & adults.

More: http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/

Are Mormonism & Catholicism homosexual & pedophile generators? | Connections between homosexuality & pedophilia

Adam Carolla makes a quick transition in his commentary, from gays to pedos.

http://www.salon.com/2014/05/19/adam_carolla_where_are_all_the_jewish_roofers

"I don’t even know who’s gay and who’s not gay nine times out of 10 — why do you even need to know? Your skin color and gender one can see, if one wanted to discriminate. In terms of sexual proclivities, I don’t know what someone’s into! You could work with someone who’s into kids — how would you know?"

Clearly not every gay is a pedo. But is the link nonexistent?

Item 10 at
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/family-values-atheism-questioning.html

Which links to more info
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/response-to-site-claims-attack-by-lds.html

Sickening and abhorrent to know that human nature allows for such trash as pedos to be produced. Defects that should be locked up for life. Why is such trash picked up and valued by at least some gays?

Not fun to talk about. Liberal heresy to think what I saw was not a one off - that the observation has significant relevance.

---

Oh, and yes the Mormon Church does abuse kids.

http://web.archive.org/web/20131021180407/http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml

In my estimation there may well be deeper contributory expression-promotion synergistic links between Mormonism, gayness, pedos, and apology for pedos.

By comparison, the Catholic Church complains mightily about gayness, and they also have many pedo and/or gay priests.

Convicted pedophile who is friends with 5+ Salt Lake City area gays, and attendee at gay house parties and bars (saw first hand):

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695261750/Secret-shame-Predator-was-coach-Scout-chief.html

The truth sucks sometimes, but the non-truth sucks more.

Yes I imagine there's gays with more brain cells and morals. However sex with boyz (their spelling) is a common reference. Heard it first hand with my nephew and his friends many times.

I was the first leftbot chump my nephew came out to. In hindsight I wish I had referred him to other options than to hook up with gay culture.

-----------

Are Mormonism and Catholicism homosexual & pedophile generation machines?

In part I believe they are. For similar & different reasons, and for reasons having to do with expected responses to rightist extremism: leftist extremism.

Those "recovering" from those religions can also become abused & abuse themselves as they go way too far over to the other side, Both "sides" of the same coin playing off each other. Fighting each other. Helping each other be more extreme and frankly denialist.

Who introduced Mormon children to the concept of homosexuality? Past Mormon Prophet Spencer Kimball & related cohorts. So Kimball, by his extremist actions of linking innocuous masturbation with dead-end homosexuality, did both abuse children by helping them fear masturbation, plus he first placed in the minds of children the "option" for being a homosexual - so that when the child rebels against the retrograde idea of shaming for masturbation, he may look to homosexuality as a sort of "refuge" from the abusive nature of Mormonism.

A thesis.

A theory.

An opinion.

But also an observation: as noted I have a gay nephew who I spent many years with going to parties. He "came out" to me first. I observed his actions first hand. I know how harsh his father was & strict & ultra Mormon.

"Rebelling" against the abusive ultra-conservatism of Mormonism, meant, for my nephew, becoming a petty ultra-gay sexual-dead-end narcissist - abused so much by both sides that he readily accepts a convicted pedophile into his friend circle.

Next, we have my supposedly-bi uncle from Manti, Utah. Again, in response to the abusive nature of Mormonism in Manti, he moves to San Francisco, gets AIDS, dies, and leaves his straight family with no father. A multi-year process admittedly. But still this was the net result.

Then, we have groups like Atheists of Utah, who see themselves as the "answer" to Mormonism. Their "answer" is gayness, whosale embracing of the "gay agenda." No questions. No dissent. No other ideas. No other concepts. No other politics than ultra-left. No other thoughts allowed in their group. Just the most extreme leftist agenda, period. Their "answer" to Mormonism is: homosexuality.

So, a huge homosexual generation machine: Mormonism, and respondents to Mormonism. Linked together & a de facto gay and gay-agenda-apologist generator.

As for Catholicism, they also help generate more homosexuals and pedophiles by having forced celibacy of their priests. Their doctrines preach great fear about homosexuality. Their leaders talk about this again & again. So in Catholic households they are constantly telling their children about gayness. And the priests are often just a bunch of fucking pedophiles. So, in such an environment, what do you think will be the result?

When children rebel, they *may* more easily become gay, or a pedo, or both - and thus be tarred by the abusive stance of Catholicism on sexual issues. The first answer for Catholicism is to require all their priests to be married, to a woman. And secondly to allow women priests, women who are married to men.

For Mormonism, they should stop distributing the abusive book Miracle of Forgiveness. Stop interviewing children & adults about masturbation, and about sex before marriage. Tell children that masturbation is ok. Trying to wait to have sex in marriage is ok - but sometimes having sex with a person you'll most likely marry is ok too. Plus tell them that oral sex is ok - tell that especially to the adults (as oral sex was banned in Mormonism in the past).

Sex sex sex. When you try to press it down too much, you may just end up having a gay-person generation machine.

Now, I have to keep saying this I know. I realize there are service oriented gay people who are more level headed. More ethical. More moral. Less petty.

However, there are huge problems with "gay culture." Direct links to pedophilia which are not easy to dismiss. Not every gay person is such a "link," but the de facto links are there, at the parties, at the bars, on the Internet, and so on.

How to move forward? With honesty. Honesty about abuse on the right and the left. Honesty about how harshness on the right can well lead to a petty destructive narcissistic culture on the left in response. Playing off each other.

There are "answers" to be found on both sides, left & right. What answers come from the left? To not shame children too much for things like masturbation. To not be too controlling. To have systems in place which provide a social safety net for people. To help keep "cheats" in control, rich sociopathic cheats who would screw everyone over if it weren't for proper regulation.

The "answers" to be found on the right are that shaming for some forms of sexual expression does help protect us, from AIDS, from petty narcissism, from dead end tail chasing, and so on. That normal family life, with a mommy, and a daddy, and children, is the ideal center for humanity, it has been, it is, and it must be the center. When a male-female parent with child structure is not the center, the right is "right" to say that we're about to go right off the fucking rails.

As for gayness, gays have a right to jobs, apartments, and to not be harassed per se for having sex with other gays. But, on the other hand, children have a right to a mommy and daddy (!), including adopted children!

In my view both single women, and lesbians, should be barred from sperm bank use, period. A legal framework should be put into place to ensure that artificially facilitiated reproduction more closely mirrors what happens with more natural.

It's dangerous to fuck with how 13.8 billion years of evolution have set up. Humans are not blank slates (ref. Steven Pinker). We have a long sexual, not asexual, not homosexual, just sexual history.

Sex. The left fear it as much as the right. Don't be afraid of sex. Celebrate it. It's where life comes from! It helps you be wisely selfish. It helps you not to live a petty, stunted, dead end life - if you allow it to work normally. If you honor it's history.

A man.

A woman.

Babies.

Life!

Children may need a mommy and a daddy - even adopted children.

There is no such thing as "gay marriage" because two gay people cannot make babies, naturally with each other, period.

Only naturally sexually reproducing couples (ie: male & female couples) should have access to children.

Crazy defective destructive dangerous outlier men who're attracted to children should be locked up for life

Not everything is equal: gay's cannot produce babies naturally with each other, men with men, and women with women. Cannot, naturally, via the method which came from 1.2 billion years of evolutionary sexual history.

Yes there are service oriented gays who're more moral. But, things aren't so cut and dry as to assume that gay culture is a healthy panacea "answer" to right wing religion. It ain't.

Daniel Dennett's dangerous idea: Religion is a natural phenomenon. This fact cuts both ways. Fully natural, normal, valuable, and useful human morality can and does exist within religious frameworks. A damn hard thing for a liberal to admit! In fact many liberals are in active denial.

Sometimes the nuttypots DO know something. Fuck. That's a damn fucking hard thing for an ex-Mormon, or liberal, to admit. But most liberals are so naive and victims of fearful politically correct culture, they don't dare investigate whether their own presuppositions are flawed or not.

Is the "right" right, sometimes? Yes. Often they go way too far with their responses. AND their responses can push people right over the edge, right into the destructive cultures the right is so fearful of. That's the damn sucky thing about the whole situation (from the perspective of your average PC liberal who would prefer that things be otherwise).

Lefties can be as abusive as righties. An ultra-rightie can easily become an ultra-leftie - with an equal level of abuse being present. But often such people are too naive to recognize what is happening or what has happened.

Been there, first hand. Seen it happen to others, again and again. Seen the costs. So now, I'm more for honesty, than for 100% advocacy for leftist agenda.

========

Additional links:

Family Values Atheism: Questioning liberal dogma -- the Gay Flag: Freaks Welcome Here -- questioning gay marriage -- secular reparative therapy (choosing to live straight)
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/family-values-atheism-questioning.html

response to: 'Porn site claims attack by LDS Church servers' and questioning sex with 'boys' in gay culture
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/08/response-to-site-claims-attack-by-lds.html

Brief history of the modern childlove movement
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1794584/posts

The Pedophile Elephant in the Gay Activist Closet
http://www.voiceofrevolution.com/2011/11/15/the-pedophile-elephant-in-the-gay-activist-closet/

A Secular Case Against Gay Marriage?
http://secularright.org/SR/wordpress/a-secular-case-against-gay-marriage/

'Severing Love From Diapers': The Other Case Against Gay Marriage
http://www.npr.org/2013/03/20/174848127/severing-love-from-diapers-gay-marriage-opponents-make-their-case

A Non-Religious Case Against Same Sex Marriage
http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2013/04/a-non-religious-case-against-same-sex-marriage.html

Read the "yes" side at:
http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-there-any-good-secular-arguments-against-gay-marriage
if you're a self described liberal you already know the no side. So read the yes side.

A secular case against same-sex marriage
https://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/a-secular-case-against-same-sex-marriage/

The Political Brain
A recent brain-imaging study shows that our political predilections are a product of unconscious confirmation bias
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-political-brain/

Michael Shermer on confirmation bias, on the left:
http://www.michaelshermer.com/tag/confirmation-bias/

Homosexual Sentenced to 40 Years in Prison After Offering ‘Son’ to International Pedophile Ring
http://christiannews.net/2013/07/06/homosexual-sentenced-to-40-years-in-prison-after-offering-son-to-international-pedophile-ring/

Man who's friends with 5+ gay people in Salt Lake City, and an attendee at local gay house parties & bars:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695261750/Secret-shame-Predator-was-coach-Scout-chief.html

Advice for Social Conservatives & Moderates, from a Family Values Atheist
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/05/advice-for-social-conservatives.html

Religion is a natural phenomenon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WhQ8bSvcHQ

Human Nature: A Conservative, Classical Liberal & Libertarian View
http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/library/philosophy/human-nature-conservative-classical-liberal-libertarian-view

My own additional thoughts:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/homosexuality