Response to a brainwashed Mormon woman from Oregon

On Facebook I found a post by a current Mormon who lives in Oregon. Below I've drafted her questions & my responses. The text next to the Q for question items is her text. And my responses are next to the A for answers.

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Howdy.

Your profile doesn't look like a one-off troll type account, and so I'm going to respond in more detail:

Q. Why is it so important for non LDS people to tear down the LDS religion?

A. Normally when people act in this regard it's for reasons they feel are good & valuable.

There is a substantial difference between the Evangelical protestors outside of the Great & Spacious Building & Temple Square during Mo. Conference, and why we wish to "tear down the LDS religion."

I also don't put much stock in people who're unhappy with Mormonism because the Mormon Jesus is different from the Baptist or Protestant or Catholic Jesuses. I could care less about such differences.

However there are many valuable, good, reasonable, valid, cogent, evidence-based, experience-based, fact-based reasons we can give as to why we express concerns, and why we use the tonalities we use as we express our concerns.

Do you REALLY want to know the answer, or are you just claiming there CAN BE NO answer which contradicts the validity of Mormonism? If your approach is the latter, then there's not much use in proceeding further. However if you really want to know the answer, here's where to find out more:

1. My own exit journal: http://corvus.freeshell.org/corvus_corax/two/life_path/life_path.htm#history

2. The exit journals of hundreds of others:

http://www.exmormon.org/stories.htm

3. Specific exit journals by others I find particularly valuable:

Simon Southerton - http://www.exmormon.org/whylft125.htm
audio form his speech during his 2006 appearance at an exmo conference:
http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/audio2006.html

Additional conference audio files: http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/conference-archive.html

Q. I don't see anyone trying to do this with any other religion.

A. Are you sure? Atheists tend to know the most about religion.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/28/nation/la-na-religion-survey-20100928

http://bigthink.com/videos/reading-the-bible-or-the-koran-or-the-torah-will-make-you-an-atheist

Scientology criticism: http://www.xenu.net/

JW recovery: http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/jw-sites.html

Unitarian Univeralist recovery: http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-new-creed-of-unitarian-universalism.html

Catholic: http://bishop-accountability.org/

Islam: http://ex-muslim.org.uk

Q. Belief is belief

A. What a person believes in makes a difference. Not all beliefs have equal value. Some beliefs hurt people & destroy lives.

Q. belief in something is better than belief in nothing.

A. We don't believe in "nothing." We just don't believe in Joseph Smith's alien Kolobite god.

http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/kolob_tract.htm

Q. Like all religions it is not for everyone

A. Abusive controlling brain washing iron fisted destructive religions should be for no one, ideally.

Q. should remain a personal choice.

A. Children cannot choose. Most children are sucked into the religion of their parents. They don't have the ability to choose. Even adults can be sucked in though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

Q. If you make the choice to remain a non believer in the LDS religion

A. A non-believer is no longer in the religion.

Q. then you have no right to tear it down.

A. We have EVERY RIGHT (!!!) to speak our mind, and we shall continue to do so. It is a terrible offense and abuse to request that we do otherwise.

Your church did this (among MANY other abuses):

http://web.archive.org/web/20131021180407/http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_info/sin_and_death_in_mormon_country.shtml

"On March 2, 1982, Kip Eliason, age 16, distraught and filled with self-hate over his inability to stop masturbating, committed suicide..."

Good job there, Mrs. Mormon. Good job, Spencer Kimball, Boyd Packer, and parents like you (presumably). You helped Kip stop playing with his "little factory" such that he felt it necessary to kill himself.

More appropriate responses:

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/boyd%20packer

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/search/label/Spencer%20Kimball

Yes, they couldn't keep their Jesus off my penis. But, there's many other abuses that happen.

Abuses of power. Telling members they cannot question the leaders, and if they do they'll be kicked out. Being kicked out may also be turned out onto the street from your family. Complete exclusion from your own family. And even for more "nice" Mormons it will still mean exclusion from temple marriage ceremonies & other things.

PART-Member family. PART, part, part, part, member family. Which "part" is the good part and which part is the evil part? Which part is the good wing, and which part is the damaged wing that one would be better off cutting off? Member. Non-member. Apostate. Enemy of the Church. And so on.

These are ALL expressions of OUT GROUP morality. Not nice. Not good. Yes fully natural. But best worth discouraging where possible.

Thank goodness for the Internet for increasing all the scope of all of our in-group morality. The 'net is hurting Mormonism & other expressions of destructive out-group morality - and that's a good thing.

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/genocide-in-bible-ingroup-outgroup.html

http://edge.org/conversation/mc2011-history-violence-pinker

Q. If you are an inactive member due to some wrong you think you suffered then that is also your choice.

A. When a church leader acts as as an instrument of abuse (which they do by default), is that their choice?

When Joseph Smith slept with a 14 year old & with the wives of other men, was it his choice? Or is it only an even-choice when someone decides they don't like the abuse? A choice that can be easily discounted?

Yes, people use their brains to make decisions. To get away from the abusers, the cult, the brain washing, the control, and to be more free. And that's a good thing.

Q. It doesn't make the religion wrong

A. Yes it does. What else would? History, or revisionist-history? Facts, or just faith-promoting-pseudo-facts? The real life experiences of people, or just those interpreted in a way to never criticize the Mormon Church or it's leaders?

Q. It just makes it wrong for you as an individual.

A. No, not everything is equal. Not everything is relative. Not all churches are of equal value. Not all churches help and/or hurt their followers in the same way.

Q. I am an active member and devout in my beliefs

A. Which is exactly why you're saying what you're saying. Meme set defense mechanisms. Amazing, but very sad. Mormon Brain Software. Yes, I had similar software running in my brain, and I'm quite familiar with how it works. The Church is always right, everything else be damned. Joseph the charismatic charlatan has shown you the way.

Q. It was the right choice for me and my children

A. You are actively abusing your children by allowing them to remain within Mormonism.

Q. and we are happy.

A. Happy in the gilded cage?

Happy in the black & white world of Pleasantville, or the color version? Happy in the dream world of all-encompassing all-encircling Mormonism, or in the real world of reality? Is ignorance bliss? It can be for a time. But in the long term being forcibly ignorant keeps a person's brain & soul in a type of prison.

http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/Redpill

Q. No one really knows if religion is true.

A. We know it isn't. 8 year olds at fast & testimony meeting, and their brain washed parents, know it is.

Q. No one really knows if there is an afterlife.

A. There isn't.

Q. My chosen religion has made me a better person

A. You don't sound like a better person so far.

Q. and has given me a standard in which to live my life.

A. Your standard for living should not come from old farts who want to get your money & keep you down. Humans have built-in morality, instilled by evolution by natural selection, and by the "neck-top" apps given by culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blank_Slate
http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_chalks_it_up_to_the_blank_slate

your neck-top: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q_mY54hjM0
and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXvldBqYjGM

Q. I have peace in it.

A. The peace that comes from ignorance. The peace that comes from ignoring the pain of others. The peace the comes from putting your head in the sand. The peace that comes from letting your children be grilled about masturbation, and putting your children's genitals into the hands of fucking old abusive farts. The peace that comes from forcibly excluding others. The peace that comes from being a cult follower.

Q. Just because you have chosen not to believe doesn't mean the religion is wrong,

A. Are your beliefs falsifiable? If not your brain might be in a box. You need to let it out. Science shows us the way: Criticism & skepticism in the first instance. And then later truth & fact finding after cogent theory development, testing, peer review, and so on. But being willing to trash the ideas of your fellows, in good faith, all in an attempt to find out where the actual truth lies. Are you doing that now? No. Yes your religion is wrong.

Q. or that Joseph Smith (my ancestor) was a bad man.

A. OMG. Were I still a Mormon, I would now be in awe of you.

The progeny of JS has spoken, and is here before us. If you were a man you might be a G.A. today. But because you don't have a penis you're pretty much excluded from any real leadership roles. Damn. If you have some male children maybe they've got a chance.

Does a bad man sleep with a 14 year old and with the wives of other men?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives
http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

Q. It is the fastest growing religion in the world

A. No it ain't.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/09/survey-one-in-five-americans-is-religiously-unaffiliated/?hpt=hp_c1

"...The fastest growing 'religious' group in America is made up of people with no religion at all..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest-growing_religion#Overall_statistics

Damn. Looks like atheism or Islam, depending on which column you choose.

Q. in the Hispanic population

A. Less educated people in Mexico & South America are more easily sucked in.

Q. so there must be something to it.

A. Yes there is. Amway on steroids. A cult. A sink. A whirlpool.

Religion is a natural phenomenon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_the_Spell:_Religion_as_a_Natural_Phenomenon

Q. See it for what it is.......A CHOICE

A. I don't really know why you keep saying choice. Choice this. Choice that.

You don't seem to understand the subtleties or realities of how the human brain works. A brain can be sucked in and held down. When a brain is in Mormonism it engages in meme-set defense & maintenance activities. There's a lot less choice in this process.

While I do believe & maintain we have free will, I can see where Sam Harris is coming from:

Sam Harris's view on free will:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FanhvXO9Pk

Daniel Dennett's response:

http://www.naturalism.org/Dennett_reflections_on_Harris%27s_Free_Will.pdf
or http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/reflections-on-free-will

Harris's response to Dennett's review:
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-marionettes-lament

In any case we have more free will that a petunia or a carrot. Our neural networks are incredibly complex computers which has far more decision-making power than other animals. But we are animals, and built-in traits & proclivities have far more of an influence than many would like to admit.

Humans can be sucked into cults. They are sucked into cults. Children are sucked into the religions of their parents. If a child's parents believe in an abusive religion, then they will probably grow up and become an abuser themselves - unless they come to their senses as they become more psychologically adult, or if they're exposed to enough evidence (personal or otherwise) which finally dislodges them from the abusive-religion meme set.

Q. The ones who feel damaged and destroyed can go their own way and figure out what is best for them.

A. What's best for us is to do exactly what we're doing now.

Trying to help educate people like you about the problems with the cult you're in. Your brain & body have been hijacked, as have the brains & bodies of your children.

Here's a quote from a post I made back in 2012,
at http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/adorations_index.html/viewthread/35772/#561941

Recently I discovered that Miracle of Forgiveness is available at the mobot distribution centers, in several different languages. In each language section they have the BOM, maybe a bible, but always this POS book.
http://www.lds.org/braille/The Miracle of Forgiveness.txt

Very appropriate responses to this book can be found in the form of one star reviews at Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-of-Forgiveness-ebook/product-reviews/B002JQK1VG/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

Since the Mormon Church apparently considers this book to still be highly relevant, then every despicable thing Spencer Kimball & Boyd Packer have done relative to negative portrayals of human sexuality to the youth & adults in the church is relevant also.

On oral sex, Spencer wants to get into your bedroom:
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

On masturbation, Spencer & Boyd both want to have a look:
http://www.zionsbest.com/only.html
http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/masturbation.htm

Also Spencer really is concerned about "petting" and "heavy petting." Oh my, that f-ing old fart must really have been hyperventilating when he wrote his Miracle of Forgiveness book. Necking. Petting. Heavy Petting. Tell us more Spencer, about all the things you dream about at night but also hate yourself for thinking of.

But people say he was such a nice man. My father has said this, as did my mother who worked as a nurse in the COB. But the guy was really not so nice after all, after you read all hateful the trash he put out.

Here's a related blog post:
Subverting normal human sexuality: Mormon Church's principal crime
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/subverting-normal-human-sexuality.html

Anyway, with my new wife seeing the pretty white shirts and the pretty buildings, and with my more recent research into the issue of Kimball's trash book being widely promoted in different languages by the mobot church, I decided to put on youtube a reprise of a song I created some time ago:

We were all just sperm in god's balls, a parody of the song Seeds:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/we-were-all-just-sperm-in-gods-balls.html

And, with Joseph Smith's nutty view of heaven in the form of Kolob, and "Kobol" entering the common consciousness in the form of the much less campy newer Battlestar Galatica version, the following newer song came out of a recent morning shower singing session:

Launch a Mission to Kolob...
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html

Joseph gets to have a 14 year old wife & wives who are still married to other men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith's_wives

Brigham gets a 15 year old & wives still married to other men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young's_wives

But, Spencer & Boyd really were/are obsessed with that you and your children are up to at home, at night, in the privacy of your bedrooms. What's up with that? And since Spencer's piece of trash book is *very* relevant for the Mormon Church, as per their having it readily available in many different languages at their distribution centers, (and reportedly since it's required reading for new missionaries) it's clear that they are still very interested in transmitting this human spirit destroying set of memes onto everyone they can.

What is up with the Mormon Church & sex? Their horn dog founder created a religion whose god, apparently, has to have an orgasm every 4.6 minutes to create 107 billion people in one million years.

107 billion people may have lived on Earth so far:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2097038/Are-really-people-alive-today-lived-Earth.html
...and that number doesn't account for "worlds without end."

Perhaps the Mormon God is rather like a giant space termite:
http://www.termite.com/images/queenking.jpg
...that would be more fitting.

Is your god an alien?
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/kolob_tract.htm

...and yet, now they want to very much control even the mere thought of sex in their members. Why? Because once a person actually allows themselves to be open to the possibility of sex being fun, normal, natural, empowering, and liberating, they can more easily find they have no use for the Mormon God or for the supposedly good feelings you get during Mormon Church meetings or from reading the lies of Joseph in the form of the Mormon scriptures.

The Mormon Church tries to hijack people's basic emotions, and to subvert & control & misinterpret them for their own nefarious ends. Other conservative religions do this also.

In any case I get much better feelings of validation from the love of my wife & new son than I ever got in mostly boring Mormon Church meetings, and from the occasional good feelings they claimed "proved" their church was correct. There's a price to be paid for pretty white shirts and pretty buildings.

If feelings can be used as a form of validation, then that means the much better feelings I've had since leaving mean their lies were incorrect.

----------end of quote

Q. That doesn't mean it isn't good for those of us the religion is working for.

A. It's bad for you even if you think it's good.

Life in Oregon is rather substantially different than life in Provo (unless you live too close to the Portland Temple).

Q. I was a Catholic before I converted to LDS and I wasn't happy but I refuse to bash that religion.

A. Bash away. They need some bashing. Child raping priests? Sounds like a good reason to bash. Have at it!

Q. I have seen no evidence worth my time

A. It was worth your time to write. Is it worth your time to read the responses? If it's not, don't bother complaining in the first place.

Q. I do believe in the church and our prophets, the apostles and the corum of the 70.

A. It's spelled quorum.

Your post is a prime example of why you're not really a happy nor healthy person while being Mormon. Blind ignorance to the life experiences of others. Forcible ignorance to evidence, truth, fact, real history, and so on. You have been abused. You are being abused. And if your children are in the church, they are being abused, for many reasons.

Q. I believe in its teachings and how the church was restored by Joseph Smith.

A. More examples of your abused-status.

Q. All that evidence you talk about is made up and false.

A. More evidence of your being in a cult.

Q. This is a life style for active members, not a hobby or just something we do on Sundays.

A. We know damn well what life is like in the Mormon Church.

Q. We cannot be swayed by false propaganda and 'evidence' written by angry inactives or non-members.

A. More evidence that you're not a nice, happy, or healthy person.

If you want to have a dialogue with people who've left, you can have one, you can have a conversation. But NO we won't shut up at your request. We WON'T stop speaking. We WON'T stop calling out problems with the church of our youth. We WON'T stop trying to free people from the abuse - and that includes trying to free YOU from it.

Sincerely,

Jonathan

April 22, 2014

p.s. Regarding the process of science & how it works:

"Trashing" & "tear down" might imply that everything's up for grabs when it isn't. Yes it's the goal of all reasonable honest scientists to try to "tear down" existing theories. To disprove them. To show where they're wrong. But more often than not one theory builds upon another. Einstein's theories didn't destroy Newton's. It simply built upon the previous theory, showed where Newton's claims remain valid (for most of human experience & speeds & viewpoints), and where they fall apart (eg: close to the speed of light or when next to very massive objects). Same goes for other new theories, usually. But when a bigger part of a theory is overturned, we view that with joy, not concern. Cha-ching - we've now learned MORE about the Universe. Super!

The truth finding method of science is far more powerful because of this. Far more accurate results than other methods.

In science you get ahead by disproving or finding flaws with previous theories - and that is it's power.

Related article by Steven Pinker:

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114127/science-not-enemy-humanities

Happy Erection Day! Easter.

Today is a celebration of Jesus's **Erection***, Not Resurrection!

Today is a celebration of the first time in his existence when he had a boner. Nothing more.

Thanks Terence Koh for showing us the true Jesus, on his Erection Day:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/sep/03/religion.art

related:
http://aronnamenwirth.blogspot.com/2011/04/christ-on-cross-with-erection.html

Other religions on the subject:

http://www.cracked.com/article_16103_5-inspiring-religions-that-worship-penises.html

in Japan:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/07/japan-penis-festival-kanamara-matsuri_n_5106378.html
and
http://goo.gl/fbyVeY

OMG, I think Spencer Kimball & Mark E. Petersen's heads must have just exploded, after seeing what those Japanese people do to celibate spring & hopeful fertility.

Much more interesting than Jesus getting a boner. Jesus is a fucking bore. Lame. Pretentious. Pious. Angry under a thin mask of false pretense of being nice. Nice on the surface, but an asshole when you get to know him. An excellent model & mirror for most Mormons. Thanks Jesus, for BYU, the Church Office Building, and all your little nazi followers.

So, let's forget that and instead consider proper fertility festivals of other religions.

Remember the 1973 version of Wicker Man?

http://vimeo.com/65040858

Oh my, now they had some good fertility dances on that island... And they toasted the guy who wanted to impose his pious iron fisted prudishness onto everyone. Sounds good to me.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2010/apr/03/easter-pagan-symbolism

Photos from April 2014 visit to China

http://public.fotki.com/petcrows-April-2014/china-april-2014/

report on visit to American Atheists convention in Salt Lake City, April 2014

Report of visit to the Hilton on Friday 4-18-2014: Having not paid the requisite $300, we didn't have badges on. We walked around the cocktail hour socializers on the 2nd floor for about 5 minutes. Didn't see anyone we knew, except one person who didn't recognize us.

Didn't see any youtube celebrities.

Didn't see the bible beating protestors outside - they must have arrived later.

We also walked quickly through Comic Con down the street. No one checked for a pass, perhaps because I had my son in arm. We breezed through quickly and only spent about 1 minute inside a hall just seeing the overall layout. Overall it looked like a fun affair.

We thought the atheists would have even more fun it they visited the Salt Palace & Comic Con.

I imagine that attending national atheist conventions is an interesting experience. You get to see a few youtube celebs who you'd never otherwise see. You'll never see them again, and they'll never see you again. You'll also probably never see again 99% of the other people.

Not many kids present, if any, but we were only there for 5 minutes though that's also true.

In any case secular groups need to become more welcoming to having kids present at their meetings, if they expect more religious people to join up. I for one resent the Unitarian Universalist model of sending your kids away to some basement room while the adults stay behind, and that model should not be mirrored by secular / humanist / atheist groups, especially not in Utah.

http://www.atheists.org/convention2014/

"American Atheists fights to protect the absolute separation of religion from government and raise the profile of atheism in the public discourse."

"...unless you post a link to your own blog on our FB page - then you've gone too far. You're engaging in 'self promotion' by posting a link to your own blog, and we here at American Atheists cannot tolerate having speech present from others - speech which detracts from US!" ...reasonable paraphrasing & interpretation of their response.

Whatever. Just goes to know Groucho Marx said it best: I don't wish to belong to any group that would have me as a member.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Groucho_Marx

p.s. The policy at
http://www.atheists.org/convention2014/code-of-conduct
where they state "...This convention welcomes families with children and expects all participants to treat these families with courtesy and respect..."

Damn. That's a better statement than what the Exmormon Foundation stated on their website for their convention this year:

"...Due to the nature of the conference presentations and the serving of alcohol during the evenings, we have established a strict policy that no children are allowed except for nursing infants. In addition, since the presentations are recorded for our website, it's important that we control the ambient noise during the recordings. If you have any questions about this policy, please contact the Conference Chairman..."

http://web.archive.org/web/20130730052521/http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/conference2013.html

Hmmm. At least American Atheists states that their convention is supposed to be family friendly. That's a lot better stance than what the Exmormon Foundation does!

Why would a foundation meant to support former Mormons actively exclude those with children from attending? Strange, especially since in Mormon meetings they don't send their children away to some back room - during the main meeting, unlike some religions.

But, American Atheists is still too controlling on their own FB page. So no one's perfect.

Mormon Bishops Are Child Abusers | Brain washed pretentious pompous claptrap, from a bunch of retrograde old farts: Thomas S. Monson, Spencer W. Kimball, Boyd Packer

1. Mormon Bishops Are Child Abusers

Oh my fucking god, and Jesus titty fucking Christ, here's a Mormon Bishop describing first hand how he intends to abuse children within his sphere of influence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP4siTJiMFI
.


time index references as per original poster of the video:

Published on Jul 30, 2013

Recorded Aug 26th, 2012 from a special combined LDS meeting in North Ogden, UT. The topic is supposed to have come from a regional meeting, although it may have been inspired by my meeting with the bishop the week before when I protested the bishop talking about masturbation with my 8 year old for his baptismal interview.

The meeting was so important to them, that they took role of who showed up that Sunday, so that they could go visit the families in their homes who weren't present that day and give the presentation to them as well. 11:55 to 12:40 is where he talks how he explains to 8 year olds about their privates, but says that it may not be enough. He's concerned about how little kids don't know what chastity really is. 25:00-26:15 Questions for potential missionaries: same gender attraction, petting, masturbation, pornography. 26:35 Six month minimum waiting period after any of those sins are committed. 47:25-47:55 Apology to offended people, but excuses himself because of his "mantle."

...end of quote

--------------------------------------

2. Brain washed pretentious pompous claptrap, from a bunch of retrograde old farts:
Thomas S. Monson, Spencer W. Kimball, Boyd Packer

Examples of the abusive drivel from which the Mormon Bishop referenced above derives his fear-based diatribe against being human:

"We call upon members to renew their commitment to live the Lord’s standard of moral conduct. Parents should teach their children the sacred nature of procreative powers and instill in them a desire to be chaste in thought and deed. A correct understanding of the divinely appointed roles of men and women will fortify all against sinful practices. Our only real safety, physically and spiritually, lies in keeping the Lord’s commandments."

From https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/eternal-marriage-student-manual/morality-and-modesty/office-of-the-first-presidency?lang=eng

Jar Jar Binks, becomes a mormon leader:

"weesa call upon members to renew thesa commitment to live da lord’s standard of moral conduct.parents should teach thesa children da sacr nature of procreative powers and instill in them a desire to be chasta in thought and de.a correct understand of da divine appoint roles of men and women ganna fortify all against sinful practices.weesa on real safety,physical and spiritual,lies in keep da lord’s commandments."

Swedish Chef:

"Ve-a cell upun members tu renoo zeeur cummeetment tu leefe-a zee Lurd’s stunderd ooff murel cundooct. Um de hur de hur de hur. Perents shuoold teech zeeur cheeldree zee secred netoore-a ooff prucreeteefe-a pooers und insteell in zeem a desure-a tu be-a cheste-a in thuooght und deed. Bork bork bork! A currect understundeeng ooff zee deefinely eppueented rules ooff mee und vumee veell furteeffy ell egeeenst seenffool precteeces. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Oooor oonly reel seffety, physeecelly und spureetooelly, leees in keepeeng zee Lurd’s cummundments. Um gesh dee bork, bork!"

--------------------------

Also from the King of retrograde a-holes, Spencer W. Kimball, we have:

"Most youth come into contact early with masturbation. Many would-be authorities declare that it is natural and acceptable, and frequently young men I interview cite these advocates to justify their practice of it. To this we must respond that the world's norms in many areas: drinking, smoking, and sex experience generally, to mention only a few - depart increasingly from God's law. The Church has a different, higher norm."

"Thus prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice."

"While we should not regard this weakness as the heinous sin which some other sexual practices are, it is of itself bad enough to require sincere repentance. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation--practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality."

From: https://web.archive.org/web/20121024074759/http://www.lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20of%20Forgiveness.txt

Jar Jar Binks version:

"most youth comein into contact ear with masturbation.many would-be authorities declare da isa natural and acceptable,and frequent young men missa interview cita these advocates to justify thesa practice of it.to dis weesa must respond da da biiig empire s norms in many areas:drink,smok,and sex experience general,to mention onda few - depart increasing from biiig one s law.da church has a different,higher norm."

"thus prophets ancient and today condemn masturbation.it induces feelings of guilt and shame.isa detrimental to spirituality.it indicates slavery toda flesh,no da mastery of it and da growth toward godhood which is da object of weesa mortal life.weesa modern prophet has indicat da no young man should be call onda mission who is no free from dis practice."

"while weesa should no regard dis weakness as da heinous sin which some other sexual practices is,isa of itself bombad enough to require sincere repentance.what is more,it too often leads to grievous sin,even to da sin against nature,homosexuality.for,done in privata,it evolves often into mutual masturbation--practic with another person of da same sex and thence into total homosexuality."

Swedish Chef:

"Must yuoot cume-a intu cuntect ierly veet mestoorbeshun. Muny vuoold-be-a oothureeties declere-a thet it is netoorel und eccepteble-a, und freqooently yuoong mee I interfeeoo ceete-a zeese-a edfucetes tu joosteeffy zeeur precteece-a ooff it. Um de hur de hur de hur. Tu thees ve-a moost respund thet zee vurld's nurms in muny erees: dreenking, smukeeng, und sex ixpereeence-a generelly, tu menshun oonly a foo - depert increeseengly frum Gud's lev. Zee Choorch hes a deefffferent, heegher nurm."

"Thoos pruphets unceeently und tudey cundemn mestoorbeshun. It indooces feeleengs ooff gooeelt und sheme-a. It is detreementel tu spureetooelity. Bork bork bork! It indeecetes slefery tu zee flesh, nut thet mestery ooff it und zee groot tooerd gudhuud vheech is zee oobject ooff oooor murtel leeffe-a. Oooor mudern pruphet hes indeeceted thet nu yuoong mun shuoold be-a celled oon a meessiun vhu is nut free-a frum thees precteece-a."

"Vheele-a ve-a shuoold nut regerd thees veekness es zee heeenuoos seen vheech sume-a oozeer sexooel precteeces ere-a, it is ooff itselff bed inuoogh tu reqooure-a seencere-a repentunce-a. Vhet is mure-a, it tuu oofftee leeds tu greeefuoos seen, ifee tu thet seen egeeenst netoore-a, humusexooeleety. Bork bork bork! Fur, dune-a in preefete-a, it ifulfes oofftee intu mootooel mestoorbeshun--precteeced veet unuzeer persun ooff zee seme-a sex und zeence-a intu tutel humusexooeleety. Bork bork bork!"

Pig Latin:

"Ostmay youthay omecay intoyay ontactcay earlyyay ithway asturbationmay. Anymay ould-beway authoritiesyay eclareday atthay ityay isyay aturalnay andyay acceptableyay, andyay equentlyfray youngay enmay Iyay interviewyay itecay esethay advocatesyay otay ustifyjay eirthay acticepray ofyay ityay. Otay isthay eway ustmay espondray atthay ethay orld'sway ormsnay inyay anymay areasyay: inkingdray, okingsmay, andyay exsay experienceyay enerallygay, otay entionmay onlyyay ayay ewfay - epartday increasinglyyay omfray Od'sgay awlay. Ethay Urchchay ashay ayay ifferentday, igherhay ormnay."

"Usthay ophetspray ancientlyyay andyay odaytay ondemncay asturbationmay. Ityay inducesyay eelingsfay ofyay uiltgay andyay ameshay. Ityay isyay etrimentalday otay iritualityspay. Ityay indicatesyay averyslay otay ethay eshflay, otnay atthay asterymay ofyay ityay andyay ethay owthgray owardtay odhoodgay ichwhay isyay ethay objectyay ofyay ouryay ortalmay ifelay. Ouryay odernmay ophetpray ashay indicatedyay atthay onay youngay anmay ouldshay ebay alledcay onyay ayay issionmay owhay isyay otnay eefray omfray isthay acticepray."

"Ilewhay eway ouldshay otnay egardray isthay eaknessway asyay ethay einoushay insay ichwhay omesay otheryay exualsay acticespray areyay, ityay isyay ofyay itselfyay adbay enoughyay otay equireray inceresay epentanceray. Atwhay isyay oremay, ityay ootay oftenyay eadslay otay ievousgray insay, evenyay otay atthay insay againstyay aturenay, omosexualityhay. Orfay, oneday inyay ivatepray, ityay evolvesyay oftenyay intoyay utualmay asturbation--practicedmay ithway anotheryay ersonpay ofyay ethay amesay exsay andyay encethay intoyay otaltay omosexualityhay."

Valley Girl:

"Most youth come into contact early with masturbation. Many would-be authorities declare that it is natural and acceptable, like, and frequently young men I interview cite these advocates to justify their practice of it. To this we must respond that thuh world's norms in many areas: drinkin', man, smokin', like, wow, and sex experience generally, man, to mention only a few - depart increasin'ly from God's law. The Church has a different, man, higher norm."

"Thus prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelin's of guilt and shame. It is ya know, like, detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to thuh flesh, like, not that mastery of it and thuh growth toward godhood which is like wow! the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young nerd should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice."

"While we should not regard this weakness as thuh heinous sin which some other sexual practices are, oh, baby, it is ya know, like, of itself mean enough to require sincere repentance. What is more, man, it too often leads to grievous sin, like, even to that sin against nature, man, homosexuality. For, like, wow, done in private, mostly, it evolves often into mutual masturbation--practiced with another person of thuh same sex and thence into total homosexuality."

I think my favorite versions are Swedish Chef.

------------------------

There's many reasons to extract oneself from such insantiy.

Here's more I just found:
Apostasy A to Z - Or, why I don't go to church any more. by Chris Tolworthy
http://www.exmormon.org.uk/tol_arch/atozelph/

Down toward the bottom of the last page there's a defunct link. But here's a copy:
Who Are The Lamanites?
http://web.archive.org/web/20060313004519/http://home.comcast.net/~zarahemla/Lamanites/Lamanites_Index.html

Attention, Spencer Kimball: Masturbation does not lead to homosexuality. But your constant obsessions about it may.

Attention, Boyd Packer: Keep your hands off of my little factory, and out of the bedrooms of all children & adults in your cult.

Attention, Thomas Monson & cohorts: You're a bunch of f-ing old farts. What about Joseph Smith sleeping with a 14 year old, and with the wives of other men? What about Brigham Young sleeping with a 15 year old and with the wives of other men?

No More: End Mormons' Sexually Invasive Interviews of Children
https://www.facebook.com/pages/No-More-End-Mormons-Sexually-Invasive-Interviews-of-Children/503622079732706

Teaching children to fear their own bodies. That is what the Mormon Church teaches. Teaching eight, and eleven, and twelve year old children that masturbation may lead to homosexuality. Crazy. Stupid. Abusive. This must be stopped!

Related images found on the web:

(from here)

(from here)

(from here)

Free St. Patrick's Day from ultra-leftist religious dogmatism

Seculars against ultra-leftist religious dogmatism.

Naive ultra-liberal dogmatism is highly present in the following de facto branches of the religion known as Stonewall: American Atheists; Atheism Plus; Unitarian Universalism; Council for Secular Humanism; Center For Inquiry, Atheists of Utah, and so-called naturalists and humanists.

Since when did being human or natural mean we have to accept 100% of the gay agenda? Inherently non-reproductive sex? By default a petty dead end narcissistic lifestyle? Perhaps concern about homosexuality is natural? How's that?

Most recently the LGBTQPZ community became very upset with the New York City St. Patrick's Day Parade.

Found this on American Atheists' facebook page:

Generally speaking the American Atheists group, located in Cranford, New Jersey, is in my view yet another branch of the liberal dogmatic religion known as Stonewall, as are all of the other groups I mentioned above.

My response to the social-justice oh so righteous warriors on the ultra left, who want to fly the gay flag at every possible event:

Not every parade needs to be a gay pride one. The boycotts are stupid IMO. The parade organizers get to decide who's in their parade. If the Stonewall place in NYC wants to have their own parade, they can. But they shouldn't demand to hijack the regular parade for their own agenda. Liberal dogma can be a de facto religion. Whatever American Atheists or the advocates for atheism plus happen to say isn't automatically on my own list of important agenda items.

The quintessential struggle of our time is not the promotion of the ultra-liberal agenda. Rather, it's just general advocacy for science, survival, and a prudent amount of hawkishness so as to curtail the actions of world-stage bullies. That's my view...

As for the rest, you can put me on a heresy trial if you wish, but if you do so you'll be just acting in yet another religion, just one with a new name.

I'm not a member of your church, nor do I wish to be.

Related post I generally agree with:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1467403400144168&id=293011477509961

Quotes from the post of the group Seculars Against Same Sex "Marriage:"

Just as black pride, brown pride, feminist pride, etc cannot be emphasized at the Boston St. Patrick's Day Parade; the same applies to gay pride groups as well. The parade and day has nothing to do with any of the causes mentioned above. Blacks, Hispanics, Feminists, and Gays can still be in the parade, but just not promoting their own identity politics.

*"In their defence, parade organisers claim that gay people are not prohibited from marching, just not allowed to march under gay-themed banners. In Boston, organisers point to the fact that gay people this year joined a ‘diversity’ float that represented a South Boston neighbourhood.

*According to Boston’s lead parade organiser, Philip Wuschke: ‘We don’t ban gay people. We ban groups that are trying to make a statement.’ He notes that they have rejected a variety of groups, including the Ku Klux Klan, Irish heterosexual pride and an anti-abortion organisation, among others...

* Or you might ask, why do gay activists insist on joining a parade that isn’t about their cause and, in the case of Boston and New York, doesn’t want them there as a separately identified group?

*The notoriously anti-gay Westboro Baptist Church probably doesn’t expect to be able to join a gay pride march, and gay pride organisers wouldn’t let them in if they tried (in fact, St Patrick’s Day organisers in Boston say they turned down an application from Westboro, which is anti-Catholic as well as anti-gay, to join the parade)...

*This is the top-down, elite-led politics of name and shame, rather than a properly liberal campaign that draw upon popular support.

*What we are witnessing is an attack on those who don’t share today’s pro-gay outlook. Some may not want to opt out of this Culture War, but the war increasingly won’t allow there to be any bystanders. Instead, there is pressure to conform. Even if it does not spill over into the political or legal world, such conformism is problematic for the free flow of ideas.

*The sky will not fall if gays and lesbians are allowed to march in the Boston and New York St Patrick’s Day parades. But we will create a conformist, intolerant and unfree society if we do not allow space for the expression of different views, including traditional religious teachings about homosexuality and same-sex marriage."

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/who-are-the-real-bigots-in-the-st-pats-spat/14797#.UycY1PldWaR

 ---end of quote

Related posts:

Listening to the NARTH guy - issues more complex than either side says
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/03/listening-to-narth-guy-issues-more.html

A high abundance of angel readers and other nutjobs within the gay "lifestyle"
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2014/02/a-high-abundance-of-angel-readers-and.html

Again from http://www.naturalism.org/sexualit.htm

"...Since there are no objective harms of being or acting gay, there are no reasons to withhold any constitutional right from homosexuals, including marriage..."

But there IS objective harm! The naive liberal just doesn't know. It's par for the course.

And I am reminded of:

1. My gay uncle who died of aids leaving his straight family with no kids.
2. My gay nephew who leads a petty, shallow, dead-end type of life.
3. However and also: gay people I know who spend their lives helping others, in service oriented lives.
4. Gay people like Stephen Fry, who I largely admire.
5. The crappy crazy warped & perverse sexual morality in Mormonism & Catholicism.

In any case, I don't wish to be annexed by either side. Just because I think there may be problems with the petty selfish lifestyle present in homosexual culture doesn't mean I believe we should shame children for masturbation, for example, or teach children that masturbation automatically leads to homosexuality, which of course it does not.

Religion basically fucks up people's built-in sexuality. It can fuck it up so much that you can go WAY to far over to the other side. So in my view gays are ALSO being abused by religion, by being pushed away from normal productive human relations by the extreme anger on the issue present in conservative religion. So this is not a simple issue.

Like it or not, Sex can equal Love | Review of Intimacy | I'm keeping XP!

Like it or not, Sex can equal Love.

Related blog post:
http://relationshipsthatlast.blogspot.com/2009/05/sex-equals-love-love-equals-sex.html

Review of the film Intimacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intimacy_%28film%29
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0256103/

Naturalistic fallacy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy

Adding a 3TB drive to an HP DC7700 with Windows XP

Had to edit the MSI for the following software:
http://www.paragon-software.com/hgst/
...even though I have an HGST drive the software would not install.

The drive also would not work using a PCI-e SATA card. Had to plug it into the SATA port on the DC7700 motherboard.

msi editor: http://www.instedit.com/download.html

Windows XP - how to continue:
http://www.neowin.net/news/avast-96-percent-of-us-schools-will-be-affected-by-loss-of-windows-xp-support

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/running-windows-xp-how-to,news-18270.html

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/software/1304965/when-windows-xp-support-ends-heres-how-to-keep-your-pc-secure

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9245440/AV_vendors_buck_Microsoft_will_deliver_Windows_XP_anti_malware_signatures_for_years

http://windows.about.com/od/windowsosversions/a/6-Reasons-To-Keep-Windows-Xp.htm

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/applications/mozilla-and-opera-will-keep-windows-xp-alive-and-kicking-1195260

http://www.informationweek.com/software/operating-systems/windows-xp-wont-go-quietly/d/d-id/1113331

March 14, 2014 morning

Topaz War Relocation Center visit; Farmington Creek trail, March 8 and 9, 2014

March 8: Time index 0 to 1:19:46: Topaz War Relocation Center
March 9: Time index 1:19:46 to 1:52:09: Farmington Creek Trail
March 8: Time index 1:52:09 to the end: slide show for Topaz site visit

=============================
Description of March 8 & 9, 2014 activities.

March 8:

Topaz War Relocation Center visit - 11:31am to about 1:34pm

Location on google maps:
http://goo.gl/DvQm3D

More info: http://www.topazmuseum.org
and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topaz_War_Relocation_Center

quote from Topaz Museum website:
"The internment of Americans of Japanese ancestry during WWII was one of the worst violations of civil rights against citizens in the history of the United States. The government and the US Army, falsely citing “military necessity,” locked up over 110,000 men, women and children in ten remote camps controlled by the War Relocation Administration and four male-only camps controlled by the Justice Department. These Americans were never convicted or even charged with any crime, yet were incarcerated for up to four years in prison camps surrounded by barbed wire and armed guards."

quotes from wikipedia article:
"The Topaz War Relocation Center, also known as the Central Utah Relocation Center (Topaz) and (briefly) the Abraham Relocation Center, was a camp which housed Nikkei – Americans of Japanese descent and immigrants who had come to the United States from Japan. There were a number of such camps used during the Second World War, under the control of the War Relocation Authority."

"The camp consisted of 19,800 acres (8,012.8 ha), nearly four times the size of the more famous Manzanar War Relocation Center in California. Most Topaz internees lived in the central residential area located approximately 15 miles (24.1 km) west of Delta, Utah, though some lived as caretakers overseeing agricultural land and areas used for light industry and animal husbandry."

===============
March 9, at time index 1:19:46.

Farmington Creek Trail - 11:42am to about 12:18pm

Link to specific time index: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVNygv5lL4k&t=79m46s

location on google maps: http://goo.gl/maps/om0Or

===============

slide show from Topaz site visit, March 8, at time index 1:52:09.

Link to specific time index location: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVNygv5lL4k&t=112m9s

music used for slideshow: http://goo.gl/agrWUE

Questions for Mormon Missionaries - God, Sex, and honesty | 16 questions for Mormon Missionaries

Video link: http://youtu.be/Tly3T_dc1Vk

Questions for Mormon Missionaries - God, Sex, and honesty | 16 questions for Mormon Missionaries

The Mormon missionaries are knocking at your door.

Be nice to them. Two years of strict abstinence from dating & masturbation. Have pity on these poor naive fools / chumps. I was one, and so I can speak from first hand experience.

Bring them in. Give them some milk and cookies. And then, kindly present to them the following very poignant questions, in all seriousness, and humility, and before the Mormon God & his holy representatives, we ask:

1. Did Joseph Smith enjoy having sex with a 14 year old and with the wives of other men?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Mar_Kimball

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,464173,00.html
"...EW What do you think the reaction will be from the Mormon Church?
JK They've already basically let it be known that good Mormons should not read this book. And I think they will be very uncomfortable with the history; they will not like the fact that I point out that Joseph Smith told 14-year-old girls ''God says you should marry me, if you don't...'' His way of getting laid doesn't reflect well on him..."

"...I am especially disappointed that they feel such an urgent need to attack writers, like me, who present balanced, carefully researched accounts of Mormon history that happen to diverge from the official, highly expurgated church version..."

http://www.randomhouse.com/features/krakauer/response.html

Horn Dog Joseph's direct activities to seduce young girls:
http://books.google.com/books?id=0DQaTU7Opq0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=under+the+banner+of+heaven&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eBUiU9X_CcnnkAeRpoFA&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=helen%20kimball&f=false
...check out page 122

2. How was the sex between the Mormon God & Mary the Mother of Jesus? When the Mormon God had sex with Mary the Mother of Jesus, did he go down on her? Did he give her head? Did the Mormon God have an orgasm, and did he help Mary have one too? Did they leave their clothes on?

References:
What was it like, when God had sex with Mary?
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/what-was-it-like-when-god-had-sex-with.html

and "... Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily offspring; that is to say, Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh, and which body died on the cross and was afterward taken up by the process of resurrection, and is now the immortalized tabernacle of the eternal spirit of our Lord and Savior. No extended explanation of the title “Son of God” as applied to Jesus Christ appears necessary..." from https://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/04/the-father-and-the-son?lang=eng

Mormonism and oral sex:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html

In 1982, the Mormon God speaks about oral sex through his prophets, seers, and revelators:
Page 1: http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter.shtml
page 2: http://lds-mormon.com/worthy_letter1.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet,_seer,_and_revelator

A relevant parody of the situation: http://stakepresident.blogspot.com/2011/05/oral-abstinence-key-to-happy-fulfilling.html

3. Was it moral for the Mormon God to have sex with the wife of another man (eg: with Mary)?

4. Was it moral for Brigham Young to have sex with a 15 year old and with the wives of other men?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives

5. How come the more religious a person is the more of an asshole they tend to be?

6. Are intrusive interviews regarding masturbation of 12 year old children conducted by strange men AKA Mormon Bishops a good thing, or a bad & abusive thing?

http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_markepeterson.html

And more on masturbation (question 6 & 8 related):

I remember receiving "A Guide to Self-Control" while on my Mormon mission in Alaska.

"...When the temptation to masturbate is strong, yell STOP to those thoughts as loudly as you can in your mind..." Yes, I tried that. Didn't work though. And this is of course an abusive request to make of anyone, especially an 11-21 year old.

Boyd Packer's related evil pamphlet given to Mormon children:
To Young Men Only (PDF)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0ZmSLnUooZubEhUOF9OQkdKUk0/view?usp=sharing

7. Where is the Lamaite DNA? Why didn't Joseph Smith know about DNA? Wasn't he supposed to be hooked into the mind of the Mormon God? What about the basic denial of science in the totality of Mormon scripture?

http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/09/hey-mormon-missionaries-where-is.html

http://nowscape.com/mormon/abraham/abraham.htm

8. When you're in the Mormon Church and you have sex with your wife, are you supposed to leave your garments on or have them off?

Relevant discussion:

http://www.exmormonforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2266

http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_markepeterson.html#pub_-1343670037

9. How is a woman in Mormonism supposed to have an orgasm without oral sex? See references under question 2.

10. What is the "new name" you received in the Mormon Temple?

http://www.fullerconsideration.com/templenameoracle.php

11. If we say "Health in the navel, marrow in the bones, strength in the loins and sinews. Power in the Priesthood be upon me, and upon my posterity through all generations of time, and throughout all eternity," will we really get into the Mormon Heaven? And do we really want to go there? No oral sex? NO masturbation? A bunch of anally retentive assholes around. And we have to kiss the rear and of a hostile alien god just to get there? Doesn't sound like fun to me - going to the Mormon Heaven? What do you think?

related links:
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/kolob_tract.htm
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html

S.L. Temple "live" version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8sbYtFOnxk

Temple film shown in other Mormon temples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19cHztniXRE

The campy stilted saccharin Mormon view of heaven - in "Man's Search for Happiness:"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5oS2pZlvgI

12. You're so eager. But young people can also be nieve. Young and dumb. Don't you think you're believe deceived by old fucking farts, like Spencer Kimball, Boyd Packer, and by long dead cult founders like Joseph Smith & Brigham Young.

13. Show the missionaries the film "Jesus Camp" and get their response.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp

14. When you get finished on your mission do you plan to attend BYU Idaho, and while there do you plan to complain about your roommates if they happen to have women staying over at night? If the answer is yes, then that means you're still an asshole. Free yourself, young, dumb, naive, Mormon missionary. Don't be a chump or a tool of old farts who just want 10% of your gross income.

15. What about the links between Mormonism and Masonry?

Why are the following photo collections related?
Salt Lake masonic temple images: http://goo.gl/hgIbF5

Mormon Salt Lake temple images: http://goo.gl/lOki78

And an additional question not mentioned in my view:

16. Watch the film "Plan 10 From Outer Space" with the missionaries and get their response.
http://www.echocave.net/plan_10_from_outer_space.html

IMG 8035 - 3-13-2014 7:42am

Jesus wants me for an asshole: the song of LDS missionaries, bishops, and prophets

Parody of the song: Jesus wants me for a sunbeam
reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27ll_Be_a_Sunbeam

New version: Jesus wants me for an asshole.

A special version of the song which more accurately describes life in the Mormon Church, and especially regarding the leaders of Mormonism past & present. Mention is also made of Mormon leaders Spencer Kimball, Boyd Packer, and others. Plus also of my special time spent in Alaska on a Mormon mission.

And also commentary about Ukraine.

More info:

On past Mormon prophet Spencer Kimball and current Mormon apostle Boyd Packer:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2013/02/ldsorg-discover-perversity-or-mormonism.html

Ron Pugmire, the first Mormon Bishop who introduced me both to masturbation interrogation interviews, and to Spencer Kimball's evil book Miracle of Forgiveness.
http://www.icse.utah.edu/person72

I remember asking Ron if women ever masturbate, as a naive ~12 year old. I think he said they did, but less than men. Sex education, straight from the Mormon Church. Thanks Joseph Smith!

People accurately describing the evil of Spencer Kimball's book:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-Forgiveness-Spencer-Kimball/product-reviews/0884944441/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

Wives of Joseph Smith. One 14 year old, plus women still legally married to other men:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives

Wives of Brigham Young. One 15 year old, plus women still legally married to other men:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brigham_Young%27s_wives

Related song about the homeworld of the Mormon God, where there's no oral sex, masturbation, nor anyone named Rex or Nate.
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html

Related song about how we were all just sperm in God's balls:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/we-were-all-just-sperm-in-gods-balls.html

Ukraine couple moving from Crimea to Kiev:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gpbv8G9jtI

IMG 7982 - 3-11-2014 8:35am

Listening to the NARTH guys - issues more complex than either side says

The NARTH guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb_mks65Gwg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKxYBch2LVM

Listening I am reminded of:

1. My gay uncle who died of aids leaving his straight family with no kids.
2. My gay nephew who leads a petty, shallow, dead-end type of life.
3. However and also: gay people I know who spend their lives helping others, in service oriented lives.
4. Gay people like Stephen Fry, who I largely admire.
5. The crappy crazy warped & perverse sexual morality in Mormonism & Catholicism.

Religion is a natural phenomenon, and so, like it or not natural human morality can be rooted in religion, even if religions also have built-in lies that their members are forbidden to speak against. And religions can go overboard, such as via equating masturbation with being gay.

Back in my fat bastard days I held up the book Biological Exuberance by Bruce Bagemihl.

But politically correct liberals engage in the naturalistic fallacy when they state that homosexuality is "ok" because it's natural. So what.

Related blog post:

Homosexuality occurs in nature? So what. Can I be a "black atheist" too? 

It's very true that Spencer Kimball and Boyd Packer were/are fucking perverts, as is the Pope. But, on the other hand so is my nutty gay nephew who constantly presents himself online in is underwear, and who has as a friend a convicted child abuser.

So, things ain't quite so easy to sort out as either side would have you believe.

Seeing first hand how things work can change your views. Yes it's quite true that the Mormon Church abuses children via their sexual masturbation interrogation interviews. But, there's also child abuse that happens at Stonewall centers too. Both sides are too extreme, too exclusive, too rigid, too dogmatic.

No I'm not gay. But I've been to enough gay parties & bars, and around the petty shallow stunted narcissistic friends of my nutty gay nephew to state that the "gay lifestyle" ain't all it's cracked up to be. But, don't change back to a fucking Mormon or Bible Beating Christian either - if you feel inclined to change.

And if you live a largely-abuse-free service oriented largely happy life as a gay man, that's ok too I suppose. Just don't cheat on your straight wife, get AIDS, die, and leave your family with no father. That's my advise to you.

Walking along Lagoon Trail, also known as Farmington Creek Trail - February 21, 2014

Walking along Lagoon Trail also known as Farmington Creek Trail

2-21-2014 4:07pm

Life on Kolob: Endless sex & a lot of pigu kissing; Johnny Lingo; 8 cow wife; Lamanite DNA

Johnny Lingo; 8 cow wife. Mormon films and productions fall into a scale with at least two dimensions: campy versus professional, and anally retentive versus friendly.

The film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfahoLfrddU

Chat with a Mormon:
http://mormon.org/chat
...chat with a brain washed person - today.

My responses:
Launch a mission to Kolob - more versions & info:
http://jonathanshome.blogspot.com/2012/12/launch-mission-to-kolob-and-blow-place.html

Where is the Lamanite DNA?
http://corvus.freeshell.org/psittacus/three/tract/dna_additional.htm
Simon: http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com/

IMG 7666 2-28-2014 7:24am

Ukraine; sex should result in children; atheist religion; capitol building should be open

On Ukraine & Russia: Russia is lying.

About Jian Ghomeshi & Terry Gross: the childless-gay interviews of public radio.

The way you love does matter.

If you love the wrong way you might just get AIDS, die, and leave your straight family with no father.

You can have abuses on both sides.

Atheists of Utah: one big problem with this group is that the focal point for their activities is attending the yearly gay pride festival in Salt Lake.

Regarding human sexuality: Unless kids come along naturally, you can end up with a life that goes nowhere.

Inherently non-reproductive sexuality does, in the long term, go nowhere.

To my fellow atheists & naturalists: will you try to eject me from your de facto church?

I can see why Tom in Portland went back to evangelical Christianity. Poor dating prospects in the secular groups, which are usually highly populated by gay fat women with strange hair.

Having kids is a good thing.

We need to reform atheist groups: extracting such groups from the dogmatism of the left.

Currently if you don't adhere to the ultra-liberal agenda you will undergo a heresy & excommunication trial in many secular / atheist / naturalist groups.

Regarding the GCHQ spying on the intimate activities of people who use Yahoo Messenger to have webcam chats: That does go too far. Gathering connection to connection data into a large database is one thing. But keeping content data, and being able to watch en-masse webcam chats by regular people, without court approval for each search of actual content does go too far.

The U.S. Capitol Building should be returned to the people, for open walking around. Right now it is most definitely not a "temple of freedom." Perhaps the Congress can go work elsewhere, and have the building returned to the people. An initial security scan is ok at the door. But after that people should be free to walk around the building. Until then, it is not, nor will it ever be, a "temple of freedom" as is claimed in the current mandatory film they show to all visitors at present.

Commentary on pronunciation issues with English. John Boehner's last name should be pronounced boner, not bayner. English is English. Pakistan is Pakistan, not Paaaakaaastaaaaan. It's France, not Fronce. It's Mexico, not Mehico. And so on. English is English. If Mr. Boner wants people to pronounced his name as Bayner then he should change the spelling of his last name.

On NPR - National Politically Correct Radio

2-27-2014 7:30am 3:23pm

Tay Do Supermarket: Seller of rotten food. Plus more comments on Ukraine.

Commentary about our weekend activities:

1. A visit to a Mormon meeting, to pick up my father so that we could go to a museum with him.

2. A visit to the Natural History Museum of Utah so see their chocolate exhibit.

3. Sadly, two visits to a disreputable grocery store that sold us rotten food. Details below regarding that issue...

Also commentary about the recent events in Ukraine. Perhaps Viktor Yanukovych can go live with Edward Snowden in Russia...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden

Regarding item 3 above:

Rotten food sold by:
Tay Do Supermarket
3825 South Redwood Road
West Valley City, Utah (Salt Lake valley).

Manufactured by: Woo Kee Inc., S. El Monte, California 91733

Product name: Fresh Rice Rolls

Problems found: Tasted rotten. My wife (who is from China and who is an expert regarding rice products) detected mold/mildew on the rolls.

Full UPC: 6 34913 00068 2

Net weight 20 oz.

Cost of item: $2.99 plus tax.

No expiration date listed on rolls, even though they were freshly cooked by the manufacturer.

Store refused to take product back for a refund, or for an exchange for a DIFFERENT product. They wanted to just provide to us the SAME product in exchange. Store told us that the food they sell is perishable, and that they have no responsibility for it's status after it leaves the store. "You takes your chances for the food you buy from us because we refuse to stand behind it, or to properly investigate problems with the food we sell." - This is an accurate description of their stance. It's a stance that may be common in Vietnam or China, but it's rather uncommon here.

Here's a list of stores which do readily take products back, and which are very interested in detecting problems with the food they sell: Trader Joe's, Smiths (Kroger), Winco, and even Walmart. These Asian stores simply need an education that this is America, and in America stores tend to care more about the safety of the food they sell.

When stores refuse to take food back for refund or exchange, that promotes the following: a.) the selling of unsafe food, and b.) a failure to take responsibility for the selling of unsafe food, and c.) no ready method of correction for the selling of unsafe food. Thankfully stores like those I mentioned starting with Trader Joe's GLADLY take food back - because they CARE about their customers and food safety!

But sadly when Asian merchants come to America they assume that the Asian way of doing business is how they should act here - but it ain't! In America we care about food safety, ok? Welcome to America Mr. or Mrs. Asian-immigrant grocery store owner. We like buying Asian food here, yes that's true, but not food that's rotten or spoiled, and not such food from stores which refuse to take any responsibility for the food they sell.

When my Chinese wife shared our experience at Tay Do with her friends, they were surprised. "This happens in America?," they said. Yes it does - when grocer immigrants bring a criminal lack-of-responsibility unsafe food selling culture here it does. In China & Vietnam the grocers may well not take responsibility for the food they sell. "You takes your chances, and after food leaves our store we take no responsibility for it!" Ok, that's the way people do things in China & Vietnam. But in America when stores & food manufacturers try this, relevant governmental agencies will hear about what happened, and the consumers who report problems won't go to jail for complaining (like they can do in China & Vietnam).

Relevant photos of the rotten food:

Where's the expiration date?

And notice their angry statement on the above receipt "NO REFUNDS & EXCHANGES!"

Translate this to me: We can sell you shitty spoiled rotten food, and take NO responsibility for it. Yeah, such a stance really promotes food satefy.


------------
IMG 7620 2-24-2014 7:29am

recent travels: science & creationist museums & Antelope Island

Visit to The Museum of Ancient Life at Thanksgiving Point, Lehi, Utah. February 8, 2014

http://youtu.be/lHcDy3w0rUs

Natural History Museum of Utah visit on February 9, 2014.

http://youtu.be/TSkft7W0m7Q

Antelope Island, February 16, 2014

http://youtu.be/9pNo1yBY-LY

Additional info is on the youtube page for each video.

thoughts on Ukraine - February 2014

Ukraine has been in the news recently. In Portland I met a very nice family from Ukraine, an experience which led in part to a desire to seek about seeking a wife from there. That experience resulted in the following:

1. Several blind dates, with about 30% normal women, 50% women who wanted nothing more than a free meal from an American man, and 20% outright thieving women.

These dates were orchistrated via the following sites:

http://www.kievconnections.com
and http://www.elenasmodels.com

2. Tours of sites in Ukraine which normal tourists would never see. Swimming in a large river near Kiev. Touring cathedrals & seeing the circus. Visit to Soviet-era-looking towns and staying in similar style hotels. Visits to Odessa & the surrounding area. Odessa was known as a city of thieves. It still deserves that label, unfortunately.

A pretty face can bring ready cash. Pretend to be interested in real relationships with foreign men, and suddenly, cha-ching, the cash starts flowing in. Yes there are certainly honest hard working down to Earth people in Ukraine. It's just that most such people do not, in my view & experience, visit agencies to help them meet foriegn men to marry. It's something about the culture perhaps.

China is different. Chinese women. You will have better luck with women from China. Less likely to cheat & deceive. More hard working. A higher liklihood that you will be approached honestly & for the same purpose as you are out looking. Women not just looking for a free meal or a one night stand.

Anyway, so far I've created two video commentaries about Ukraine since they've been in the news recently.

Ukraine, freedom, dating scams, thieves, dating advise, & related thoughts - 2-20-2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed0XK8CQc4Y

Mr. Beeb and the Birdies; more thoughts on Ukraine; the naivete of liberal relativism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aZLm-ZAjN8

Commentary included with video 1:

Check out:
https://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-feb-19-live-updates-337098.html

Oh my. The place is trashed. What's my impression of Ukraine?

1. Some normal honest people.
2. A great number of thieves present. Here's one example: http://www.romancescam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32263

In Portland I met a very nice family from Ukraine. Before coming to my senses and marrying a nice woman from China, I went on some blind dates with some Ukraine women. Some were normal. Some were just wanted a free meal / date. And at least one or two were outright thieves.

Also the wallet drop scam was tried on me in downtown Kiev right near the central square where a lot of the fighting is currently happening.
https://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/kyivs-scammers-target-easy-prey-foreigners-30791.html

Why does Moscow care so much about Kiev? Because that's where their ancestors came from. But if they want to all be Ukrainian at heart why did they move to Moscow?

Russians want Ukraine to essentially be & remain a de facto Russian state / province. But a lot of Ukrainians don't appreciate the boot of Putin.

In a bar in Odessa I remember one man telling me "we just want people outside of Ukraine to view it like it's a regular normal country."

If the protests succeed and if the place can be one where the former PM is not imprisoned by the current president and so on, then perhaps the man's dream can come true.

As for the dating scam women and all of the wallet dropping scam men, I rather hope they all move somewhere else. Maybe to Putin's neighborhood.

Related book:
Tales Of Old Odessa: Crime And Civility In A City Of Thieves
http://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/tales-old-odessa-crime-and-civility-city-thieves
http://www.amazon.com/Tales-Old-Odessa-Civility-Thieves/dp/0875803466

City of thieves indeed. There are normal down to Earth honest people in Ukraine, but they are unfortunately surrounded by a bunch of crooks. Maybe the normal people want to throw the crooks out.

2-20-2014 7:35am and afternoon

Commentary included with video 2:

Mr. Beeb and the Birdies; more thoughts on Ukraine; the naivete of liberal relativism.

Regarding Ukraine I found the following this morning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DxkDiAcSF8
as on the BBC for a time and at
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-feb-21-live-updates-337287.html

To find, in my view & opinion, 30% normal women, 50% women who are interested in nothing more than a free meal from a foreigner (and a one night stand with a big spender), and 20% women who are outright thieves visit: http://www.kievconnections.com
About the same odds later findable at: http://www.elenasmodels.com

Recommendations instead for dating & marriage: In the first instance first hand interaction & offline introductions. Online later, but only AFTER a real flesh & blood first hand introduction by a friend or college. This applies both to seeking someone here or abroad. And in my view and first hand experience, women from China will tend to be more honest with you regarding what exactly they're approaching you for than women from Ukraine, Russia, or similar countries. Yes there are honest down to Earth women in the former-USSR countries, but you have to do more sifting to find them. Does the woman want to go buy expensive shoes or clothing immediate after your first dinner date? Is she eager for you to meet her family? Does she call you at odd hours of the night to request emergency cash? All these are signs that you're simply being used.

Anyway I'm lucky to have found the woman I did, and that friends in the US were able to help coordinate our initial contact. A beautiful son has so far been the result.

Regarding politics, liberalism & conservatism: My preference is to now take the Hitchens approach. Question everything in the first instance, and then see where the evidence lies. Sometimes conservative or moderate ideals end up being correct, after examining sufficient evidence. A hard truth for a liberal to admit.

2-21-2014 7:22am